To cancel Christmas for all future years?

Absolutely. Well said.

It is always very surprising to see people saying that autistic people should just somehow magic away their disability to please NT people. I do wonder if they think epileptic children are "selfish" and suggest responding to fits caused by deliberately subjecting them to triggers in inappropriate environments by ignoring them. That'll teach them not to do it!

Are there really people so clueless that they don't understand an autistic child doesn't choose to have a meltdown any more than an epileptic child chooses to have a fit?

This constant portrayal of the slightest accommodation by NT people to make autistic people's lives more bearable as being some kind of huge and unreasonable imposition, that this is "indulging" autistic people and them "having everything their way" is so unbelievably stupid that it's hard to understand how a grown adult could actually hold such a view when it is blindingly obvious that the entire world is designed for NT people's preferences and that autistic people spend every single day of their lives making accommodations and compromising their needs to meet the expectations and preferences of NT people. Yet, even when autistic children are doing so, day after day at school etc, apparently their own family not imposing yet more difficulties on them totally unnecessarily on a day that is meant to be a celebration not a further trauma is somehow characterised as unreasonable, because forcing them to perform to meet NT people's pre-conceived ideas about how Christmas should be to suit them should of course take priority over the needs of the child.

The academic research showing that in fact it is NT people who generally lack empathy compared to autistic people was spot on as this thread shows. How could anybody not be capable of realising that autistic people spend every day accommodating them and making adjustments for them and be so unbelievably selfish that they'd suggest a parent makes Christmas unbearable for a child who already has to struggle in an NT world every single day?

I find it so sad and quite unbelievable that there are still so many posters who are so ignorant and dehumanising to autistic people, even children, and apparently aren't even ashamed to declare this for all to see on a public forum.

No, it's you derailing the thread by telling me I'm saying things I didn't say,insulting me, and just generally not letting things drop. I've finished.

👏👏👏👏

It’s not as easy as that though or those of us with autistic kids would just be taking the simple solution you suggest to make our lives easier. Yes they can be told but on Christmas Day when they are already in a state of high arousal due to all the changes, excitement, flashing lights and other stimulating things if you start pulling them up for being rude it’s going to make things a hell of a lot worse, op son already ended up having a big meltdown, telling him off for being rude would not have prevented this. I was taught on autism courses I went on to pick battles, so at certain times you let small things go

Ever tried telling your autistic son that you did your best to choose the right gifts and he should be grateful. Also ever tried telling him he can't have everything his own way? Surely autism can't mean that you just give up teaching good manners and all expectations of good behaviour? Any child could become unbearably demanding if boundaries are not set and upheld.

Autism is a disability. I know this is hard for some to understand, because in a way some NTs are far more rigid and inflexible than those who are autistic, so I’ll assume you’re not being deliberately inflammatory and that autism is simply outside your experience and understanding.

What you’re suggesting means that many autistic people would grow up traumatised and less likely to be able to adapt to situations.

These skills (including accepting a present you don’t want and didn’t ask for) are to be learnt. It’s a process, sometimes a very long one. If your child is autistic and you know they don’t like surprises, and that they may catastrophise for days before they can remember enjoying something, you put in place adaptations to ensure that they can enjoy their day as much as they can.
It’s not about being polite, and if teaching good manners is the goal then you do it in a way that the child responds to and that doesn’t destroy them in the process.

Suggesting that making allowances is letting them get their own way is ablist - just pointing this out so you can understand in future (apologies if this comes across as condescending, but I’m assuming from your post that you have a very low understanding of autism, so I’m trying to be very clear here).

You wouldn’t suggest that a wheelchair user should just get up and walk so they don’t take up so much room (I don’t know, maybe you would?), or that a child with a physical disability should not have adaptations to allow them to function or have a happy life?

Autistic people are the same. It’s a disability, not something we’ve acquired by being pandered to, or by having bad parents who didn’t smack the autism out of us. It’s a lifelong disability that we have to learn to live with. As parents we usually want our children to learn in a way that also allows them to thrive - I know, very modern ideas we have now! Making allowances throughout a day that help a child to accept the other things that Christmas brings is, believe it or not, a good thing.

Flinging an unexpected and rigid day with no consideration of an autistic child’s needs is a recipe for disaster. In these circumstances being “ungrateful” would be the least of your problems. It’s good parenting and allows a child to learn to accept other’s preferences and wishes to adapt Christmas so they can also cope with the day and enjoy it.

(As an aside, I’m often quite horrified that so many would prefer autistic children to suffer for other’s sakes. Almost like they’re not seen as human or deserving the adaptations they need to live their lives without trauma! It’s so upsetting!)

@Huskytrot

How do these kids who cope with opening a present or seeing their family grow up into functioning adults?

I'm not autistic but I am disabled and this might blow your mind but I didn't magically grow up to gain function I never had, if anything it gets WORSE with age.

I have lost the ability to drive over the last year, I cannot walk up stairs, sit down, run, swim, I fall over and have little spacial awareness, walk with a limp and my brain 'shuts down' sometimes with no control.

Yes that means I'm not currently a 'functional adult'... that kind of the very point of being disabled if it was 'functional' I would literally be 'abled'.

Autism is it original form literally is a title for a collection of complex disabilities. So as for being ND not disabled, yes its literally a disability (actually several acting together). People get confused as what was previously know as Asperger's was not a 'disability' but a 'difficulty' and is now place under the same banner but Autism it self literally meant 'several disabilities' (which could combine to run a spectrum of effects).

We where up at 5.30am because our toddler got up at that time (normally gets up between 7 and 8.30 which our kids do because its when they get up for school normal but Christmas has thrown her a bit). We obviously have to get up if shes up and non of our kids where remotely upset to be up opening presents at 6am.

I wouldn't say 5am for excited children is wildly early or odd. It would be early for us on a normal day but Christmas isn't normal and you can't force a kid to sleep and once they are up everyone usually is (bar the teen who could sleep through ww3 but even he wanted to get up early for presents).

If it was 1/2/3/4am it might be early but 5/6am isn't insane at all for excitable young kids at Christmas.

You often need a degree of enabling to allow the child to adapt though, which often upsets NT people because they think strict discipline is the only answer.

We found the trick was to give lots of warning, timetable the day so that elements we wanted to keep were there with warning, mixed in with things he wanted, and regular routine things.

He’s an adult now and some of the adaptations we have kept because they became our family traditions, even though he doesn’t need them much now because he’s learnt to largely manage things better for himself.

Sometimes bad behaviour isn’t bad behaviour when it’s in meltdown, and it’s not a case of parenting tolerating it, it’s that things have simply gone too far. The opportunity to manage it may have passed hours before.

Edited to add a reminder that autism is a disability, not a result of poor parenting.

Pig ignorant.

if it happens later, and it means the meal-preparer isn't left out.

Then what on earth does the above mean? because thats what you said.

So you came on a thread about an autistic child to get offended and post something self proclaimed as 'not appropriate to the situation' and now even claim your not even personally offended from your own personal experience... your offended, posted something wildly irreverent and are derailing the thread just for the sake of argument.

Haven’t rtft but I understand!

We had very low key Christmases for years to suit ds.

Present opening first thing - too much anticipation to wait.

With presents we negotiated with ds that he would have 80% presents that he knew about and had specifically chosen, 20% surprise, and he was pre warned that if he didn’t like any that was fine, he could give them to a charity shop.

Time to process/play/watch crap on tv before eating a nice but easy meal.

Don’t drop usual daily routines but adapt Christmas around them.

Our Christmas dinner was always on Boxing Day, when everyone was more relaxed and dh and I would take turns to food prep and cook whilst the other parented. We still do this to this day, when we no longer need to, because it makes the day better for us all.

It can be difficult, but trying to hang on to traditions regardless of the fallout ruins it for everyone involved.

How do those kids cope as they grow up? Well for a start they grow up to be autistic adults, they don't suddenly become neurological because you've parented correctly.

Some autistic adults never do cope, either because of the degree of their disability or because they've never been taught the necessary life skills (like not to try and always fit in with a neurological world).

Some hide their autism, require little adaptation and look like they're coping just fine then have a breakdown when they just can't mask any longer.

Some navigate their lives as autistic adults and manage to find the balance between what their needs are and what the world demands.

What they don't do is become neurotypical or not disabled just because the world refuses to take it into account. It's a disability, just like blindness. A blind child can be taught skills and strategies for managing life as a blind adult but will still be different and still have support needs and will still find certain things impossible or really difficult or not worth the effort.

And you absolutely should not cancel Christmas! You are giving away all of your parenting power to your son!

Depending on the reason for waiting on the present opening time waiting for Granny or just up too early lots of NT children would struggle too.

Some kids would go back to sleep others would just keep going on so at some point I'd have caved and got everyone up then have a morning nap.

If it was morning and the delay was church or Granny I'd have given up.

Christmas after hyping kids up for weeks isn't the time for patience

Ever tried telling your autistic son that you did your best to choose the right gifts and he should be grateful. Also ever tried telling him he can't have everything his own way? Surely autism can't mean that you just give up teaching good manners and all expectations of good behaviour? Any child could become unbearably demanding if boundaries are not set and upheld.

Maybe that is what happened 🤔
My interpretation was that they'd decided to keep gift opening to after lunch when Granny go there.

If it was kid was just up early and sibling was still sleeping. I'd maybe do Stockings upstairs with some toys to keep the kid amused, lego magazines are a go to in our Stockings, book, rubix cube.

This would only work if it was 'reasonable' timings. This can't include things like everyone needs to be opening presents at 5am, everyone needs to eat xyz, etc.
Everyone's needs need to be taken into account, including the younger child, not just the child with autism.

I was kind of assuming that the child woke up at an incredibly early time, such as 3/4am and want ]ed to open them then, rather than at 7am perhaps.
In that situation I guess you could try having a small Santa present that he could open then which might keep him occupied, playing quietly, until a better hour. It clearly wouldn't be ideal to have him awake very early, and meaning others were woken too early.

I don't think you can, or should, 'cancel' Christmas Day. That wouldn't be fair in your other child. You probably do need to look at how you structure the day more though and adjust it accordingly.

He spent the first few hours of the day asking if he could open his presents

Let him open his gifts when he crosses, even if it's 'too early' and he's having to do it alone.

the next few hours complaining that the presents weren’t right (he chose what we bought but has such particular requirements for Everything, it’s impossible to get right),

Reduced what he gets in Christmas Day. Instead take him out and to choose the exact gifts, either before or after, with a strict budget and expectations set beforehand.

then he ate and played games - all was good for a few hours,

All good :) Take this time to relax yourself, take the pressure off yourself and relax your own expectations of or what you think a 'perfect' day is.

then he ended the day with an almighty meltdown because he was overstimulated as we were out of routine, we were eating different food etc. etc.

Let him eat whatever he normally has.
Everyone else can eat the Christmas meal, but he can then have his own preferences.
Eat meals at the same 'normal' times, keep to meal times, getting out of the house (if he is used to that), same bedtime, etc.

I don't know why people are saying you cant cancel just because of your younger child...you can't cancel for your autistic child either. I'm sure he liked much of the day. Find a schedule and routine on the day that works for everyone. You know your eldest best - work to mitigate the most likely trouble spots.

Op your being unreasonable to ask kids to wait to open presents.
I'm going to assume this was for Granny's benefit, sorry you have to put the kids first and let them open first thing. Let Granny bring her gift with her.

If it's Dad who was working then you might need to switch things round. I know a family who open presents when mum finishes nightshift, or if they are doing day shift everyone is up early to do presents before Mum goes out to work. Not ideal but making kids wait is silly.

Christmas Day is not the time to be teaching patience, resilience or any other life lessons.

Agreed.

No of course not.

This.

Things happen. Sometimes unexpectedly. Christmas regularly happens, as expected by the whole western world.

How do these kids who cope with opening a present or seeing their family grow up into functioning adults? Or maybe they don't, I don't know. There's a whole thread in talking about causes and what we're doing in society to make this so common.

Writing from a hotel room where 2 kids (boys who looked about 9-10) are screaming the place down since 07:00. Parents intermittently shushing them but clearly ineffective. Shit parenting is my view but no doubt I'll be told to be kind and respect their differences