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Non-binary colleague using disabled toilet

1000 replies

DefendingPan · 22/12/2024 10:14

Where I work there’s employee male and female toilets, customer male and female toilets and one customer disabled toilet.

This colleague is non-binary, is not disabled, and uses the disabled toilet/ baby change (with their own Radar key) because they “don’t feel comfortable) using either the male or female toilets.

I mentioned to my boss that I didn’t think this was appropriate and got accused of transphobia and threatened with discipline. I was made to feel like I was being offensive and discriminatory for bringing it up.

We have many elderly customers and many young families who all also need to use it.

Was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 22/12/2024 11:53

ChallahPlaiter · 22/12/2024 11:51

It’s not nonsense in fact. Societies across time and place have recognised different gender identities. You may not agree with gender identity, or perhaps the way it’s expressed in our society but you can’t dismiss numerous studies as nonsense.

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So define gender, gender identity, and non-binary without regressive sexist stereotypes. What are they?

Embarrassinglyuseless · 22/12/2024 11:52

If the male and female are both single stall - wouldn’t a more appropriate solution be to make both of them gender neutral spaces - just put ‘toilet’ on the door…

Tooes · 22/12/2024 11:52

InvisibleBuffy · 22/12/2024 11:26

They might be nicer but that's not what they're there for. They're for the disabled. It's completely inappropriate for an abled bodied person to use them for no reason other than that they've got the gender wobbles. There is no reason they can't use the toilets appropriate for their sex.
Toilets are split into male or female based on sex, not gender stereotypes.

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You do you

WarmingClothesontheRadiator · 22/12/2024 11:52

With the amount of idiots out there harassing people in toilets because they don’t look ‘female’ enough, I totally understand their decision!

This doesn’t happen but if it did why do you think that might be? Perhaps because men who get turned on by using women’s spaces, and the women in those spaces, are invading women’s spaces and women are now saying ‘No, we do not consent to being part of your sexual fetish’.

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 11:52

@wombat15 Virtually all disabled toilets are unisex single room. This is the norm. It's also fairly common for male disabled individuals to need a female carer in with them, so single sex rules would not work well. You are derailing.

NotBadConsidering · 22/12/2024 11:51

ChallahPlaiter · 22/12/2024 11:48

I expect most people are aware of there being two biological sexes, yes.

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So define “non-binary” without using regressive sexist stereotypes then.

DaphneduMaureen · 22/12/2024 11:51

Swannyb · 22/12/2024 11:46

I’d love to hear what additional access needs a ‘non-binary’ person has that warrants using the only disabled toilet available…

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No idea, but you can’t just dismiss that they may have those needs because it aligns with your transphobia (because let’s face it, if this NB person and the OP’s scenario even exists, this thread is just to whip up hate and give you an excuse to talk yet again about how sex is immutable blah blah blah)

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 22/12/2024 11:51

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 11:47

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle How can you have a "cast iron" reason if you're not disabled? Genuinely curious. Obviously not saying you should share exact specifics, I am just really confused.

I'm not going to enlighten you if you lack the imagination to understand why someone who isn't in a wheelchair or carrying a white stick and who doesn't have any obvious phyical issues might need to use the accessible toilet.

ChallahPlaiter · 22/12/2024 11:51

NotBadConsidering · 22/12/2024 11:29

What a load of nonsense. People who don’t feel it necessary to conform to regressive sexist stereotypes have existed forever. Calling this “non-binary” is navel gazing bullshit.

Can you define non-binary without using regressive sexist stereotypes?

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It’s not nonsense in fact. Societies across time and place have recognised different gender identities. You may not agree with gender identity, or perhaps the way it’s expressed in our society but you can’t dismiss numerous studies as nonsense.

chaosmaker · 22/12/2024 11:50

@DefendingPan I don't think a lot of the posters on this thread realise that disabled toilets are too few and NEEDED by disabled people to use. There are many threads on mumsnet where non disabled posters seem to think that they can use them because as one poster put it 'they are nicer'.

Afaik the trans stuff is not a disability in and of itself but may be caused by another disibility or some form of neurodiversity.

Tooes · 22/12/2024 11:50

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 22/12/2024 11:40

That's not a valid reason to use them. I don't have any visible disability but I have valid reason to use them, and sometimes use them.

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Then use them, no need to tell me about it

wombat15 · 22/12/2024 11:50

Lucyccfc68 · 22/12/2024 11:48

As a female, I don’t want mixed sex toilets, even if they are fully contained. You ever been in a blokes toilet and seen the state of them and the smell?

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But it's fine for disabled people to share not only with colleagues of the opposite sex but also customers?

Boomer55 · 22/12/2024 11:50

Disabled toilets are for disabled people. If people want to identify as whatever they like, all good, but it doesn’t make them disabled. 🙄

Icecreambythesea · 22/12/2024 11:50

Lucyccfc68 · 22/12/2024 11:48

As a female, I don’t want mixed sex toilets, even if they are fully contained. You ever been in a blokes toilet and seen the state of them and the smell?

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I've had the misfortune to visit toilets left in a horrendous state by women as well. It's not just men who have some disgusting toileting habits.

ScribblingPixie · 22/12/2024 11:49

DefendingPan · 22/12/2024 10:18

Use either of the two single occupancy employee toilets. They have male and female written on the door but are identical single occupancy units and it’s not uncommon for people to use the “wrong” one when the other is occupied.

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This is the answer. Lobby for the men's single occupancy toilet to have the sign changed so it is for everybody.

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 11:48

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 22/12/2024 11:42

Accessible toilet.

Well as a company they should also have an accessible / gender neutral staff toilet!

What if there was a staff member who needed it for accessibility reasons? Would you still be raging about them taking it from customers?

If your colleague is non-binary and not comfortable using a toilet with men or women then I don’t see the problem. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I cannot actually believe you raised this with your manager?!

But your company is the one most in the wrong here.

Edited

"Accessible" is just the current trendy terminology. The toilet exists because of disabled people and fundamentally, legally, for disabled people. We are its whole purpose and reason for being, any other use is just bolted on.

wombat15 · 22/12/2024 11:48

I think the real issue is that disabled colleagues need to use the same toilet regardless of gender and share with customers but not non disabled. You should be making that point if you actually care about disabled people.

Icecreambythesea · 22/12/2024 11:48

The obvious solution here is to convert the gender specific toilets to gender neutral. That way your non binary colleague can comfortably use either one of those and leave the disabled toilet free.

ChallahPlaiter · 22/12/2024 11:48

angrymenopausal · 22/12/2024 11:28

@ChallahPlaiter there are two biological sexes. There have always been two biological sexes. No one cares if a woman is masculine or a man is feminine. But their biology is male or female, however much they may not want that to be the case.

I expect most people are aware of there being two biological sexes, yes.

Lucyccfc68 · 22/12/2024 11:48

IsitaHatOrACat · 22/12/2024 10:22

Maybe ask for toilets to be gender neutral

Just make sure there's San pro bins in both though as I have experienced having ro wait for the correct "gender neutral" toilet to be available...

As a female, I don’t want mixed sex toilets, even if they are fully contained. You ever been in a blokes toilet and seen the state of them and the smell?

ChallahPlaiter · 22/12/2024 11:47

SammyScrounge · 22/12/2024 11:43

Where is it well documented? What exactly is this condition and where is it well documented?

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Condition?

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 11:47

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle How can you have a "cast iron" reason if you're not disabled? Genuinely curious. Obviously not saying you should share exact specifics, I am just really confused.

nonbinaryfinery · 22/12/2024 11:46

Most people on this thread are being very lovely, it's nice and refreshing. 🥰

Swannyb · 22/12/2024 11:46

DaphneduMaureen · 22/12/2024 11:34

They are not “disabled toilets” they are accessible toilets. They are not just for “disabled” people, whatever your definition of that is.

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I’d love to hear what additional access needs a ‘non-binary’ person has that warrants using the only disabled toilet available…

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 11:46

@DaphneduMaureen A lot of disabled people can't (including me sometimes), and it does have a tangible impact to have our toilets used by non disabled people. There is a cultural impact from people like you perpetuating the myth that they are not our toilets. You're wrong. They are ours. We need to have first priority to access them. There have been other recent threads on this very subject where women have described excessive demand, excessive waiting, incontinence issues, etc. I'm not going to risk potentially gratifying trolls by going into my own experiences.

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