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Non-binary colleague using disabled toilet

1000 replies

DefendingPan · 22/12/2024 10:14

Where I work there’s employee male and female toilets, customer male and female toilets and one customer disabled toilet.

This colleague is non-binary, is not disabled, and uses the disabled toilet/ baby change (with their own Radar key) because they “don’t feel comfortable) using either the male or female toilets.

I mentioned to my boss that I didn’t think this was appropriate and got accused of transphobia and threatened with discipline. I was made to feel like I was being offensive and discriminatory for bringing it up.

We have many elderly customers and many young families who all also need to use it.

Was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
DaphneduMaureen · 22/12/2024 12:40

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 22/12/2024 12:37

6Disability(1)A person (P) has a disability if—(a)P has a physical or mental impairment, and(b)the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on P's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

By that defintion I do not have a disability. I have a condition which occasionally means it is beneficial to use the accessible toilet.

Same!

DaphneduMaureen · 22/12/2024 12:39

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:29

@DaphneduMaureen You might want to actually read your link 🤣

In some LAs there is a register. HTH

DaphneduMaureen · 22/12/2024 12:39

visitbreakfast · 22/12/2024 12:27

@DaphneduMaureen

I am not registered disabled

Of course you are not, there is no such 'register'

In some LAs there is, actually.

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 22/12/2024 12:37

DaphneduMaureen · 22/12/2024 12:25

I don’t have a disability, hence this conversation around the use of accessible toilets by able-bodied people. Is reading comprehension a problem for you? You might struggle with this link if so: commonslibrary.parliament.uk/registering-as-disabled/

6Disability(1)A person (P) has a disability if—(a)P has a physical or mental impairment, and(b)the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on P's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

By that defintion I do not have a disability. I have a condition which occasionally means it is beneficial to use the accessible toilet.

latetothefisting · 22/12/2024 12:37

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:28

It's actually a disabled toilet that some other people use, and are generally tolerated using, but the more that there is constant pushback against it being for disabled people, the more negative our experiences become, only no one cares because if anything they think we have too many concessions already and want to take this away too (nothing special for you gross crips!).

which I can 100% understand, but in terms of non physical disabled people using the toilet, non-binary people using it as a gender-neutral option are going to be a tiny tiny tiny percentage. The vast majority are going to be people with babies that need to be changed, or with young children they don't want to leave alone outside, or people without any additional needs who don't see the point in waiting when there's a toilet not being used.

so ONE NB person seems to be an odd place to draw the line. If rules around disabled toilets should become stricter so not everyone gets to use it then places first need to make male and female toilets bigger, and with baby change facilities.

"It's a disabled toilet that is only for disabled people and NOBODY else" is a clear statement that's hard to argue with.

"It's a disabled toilet that people who aren't disabled are allowed to use in special circumstances, but I don't think your special circumstances should count" (which is OP's point) is not.

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:37

@Scabetty If you're not disabled, don't use our facility.

SameAsItEverWas24 · 22/12/2024 12:36

Rewis · 22/12/2024 12:34

Why not suggest to management to get rid of the male and female signs?

Also, I don't think I would be bothered them using the disabled toilet. They propably use it few times a day and unlikely to cause hardship to customers.

So do something illegal to make person feel better?

Scabetty · 22/12/2024 12:36

nellythe · 22/12/2024 10:58

“I need a piss, I go where there is a toilet free.”

Meanwhile a disabled person who desperately needs those facilities has to wait. Why do you think you have the moral high ground?

Unless this thread has been shared on some anti-disability & pro-gender neutral group then I’m astounded by the comments on here.

But I may desperately need the toilet too and they would have to wait if a baby was being changed or another person with disabilities was in there.

Particlee · 22/12/2024 12:36

Hoppinggreen · 22/12/2024 11:45

Neither do I but only someone with MH issues would be unable to tell someones sex and then berate someone

Plenty of anecdotes from people who have had the same experience. Just plain transphobia, not a mental health issue.

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:36

@Hotflushesandchilblains yes, it's definitely the "victim role" to speak the factual truth about my severe illness. Sorry you can't deal with being told that some people have real needs that don't just go "pouff" at the mere mention of the lovely word 'inclusive'.

SameAsItEverWas24 · 22/12/2024 12:36

Hoppinggreen · 22/12/2024 10:20

I would argue that not knowing what sex you are could be a MH issue and therefore a disability.

Disabled loos are for the physically disabled. Why do they have to wait to use the loo because someone has a completely made up condition? What a mental thread

Rewis · 22/12/2024 12:34

DefendingPan · 22/12/2024 10:18

Use either of the two single occupancy employee toilets. They have male and female written on the door but are identical single occupancy units and it’s not uncommon for people to use the “wrong” one when the other is occupied.

Why not suggest to management to get rid of the male and female signs?

Also, I don't think I would be bothered them using the disabled toilet. They propably use it few times a day and unlikely to cause hardship to customers.

Coconutter24 · 22/12/2024 12:34

nonbinaryfinery · 22/12/2024 10:21

Fyi nonbinary disabled people actually exist.

But in this case they’re not disabled and the commenter didn’t say that non-binary people can’t be disabled

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:34

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle Since you ask, I will answer. Firstly, I never ever challenge people in person about using the disabled loo as I always prefer to give the benefit of the doubt and would hate to distress someone.

In my view, any major illness absolutely counts as a significant disability. I would say that if someone has a diagnosis of IBD but they are feeling totally well at a given time and in general "normal", their disease is fully in remission, and they are living a completely normal life other than maintenance treatment, but have few to no symptoms, then yes I would feel that at a moral level it was somewhat wrong for that person to use the disabled loo as presumably they would be feeling well enough (at that point in time) to use a regular one. But if they felt any need, of whatever sort, to use it, then I would feel they fully had the right to, whether urgency, needing more privacy, frequency, dealing with bleeding away from the public, etc. I could also potentially see an argument for less footfall being safer if immunocompromised.

Whereas if someone's argument was "I feel gender incongruence being in the bathroom for my sex", then no I would not personally consider that a significant disability. I realise other people would, but that is just my opinion.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 22/12/2024 12:33

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 22/12/2024 12:30

OP previously posted about using the disabled bathroom in KFC for changing her baby, and getting told to put the change table back up.

Apparently she didn't know you should do that in order for disabled people to have more room and was upset there wasn't a sign telling her to.

She obviously has some sort of issue with toilets, and how would she even know if this colleague was disabled?

I've reported the post because this poster seems disingenuous.

Why write one post and claim you can't understand why parents would be asked to be considerate of the disabled and then another post where a colleague isn't being considerate of the disabled.

The whole thing just smells like its posted to drum up hate and divide for sensationalism.

angrymenopausal · 22/12/2024 12:33

ladygindiva · 22/12/2024 11:57

So you're ok with someone using the wrong sex allocated toilet but not with this person using the disabled. Unless there's a queue of disabled staff waiting for them due to this, then you're being a dick. And I say that as a GC person.

The OP didn't say that.
The individual is so special that a stick figure on a single occupancy self contained toilet triggers them.
They need a third one with the stick figure equivalent of Grace Jones and David Bowie on the door. Then they could see on peace, bless them.

EarthlyNightshade · 22/12/2024 12:31

Hotflushesandchilblains · 22/12/2024 12:25

I did not twist anything. You said they are legally for disabled people, which is propping up what some people are saying on this thread - that they are ONLY for disabled people. I challenged that.

And how do you know I am not disabled? I do, actually, have a condition which means I have to use the disabled toilets. But I am not precious enough to think only I should have access.

I think that you should be precious enough to think that you and other disabled people should be the only people to access the disabled toilet. Baby change, etc could be somewhere else.
There is no good reason to make it more difficult for disabled people to get out and about these days.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 22/12/2024 12:30

OP previously posted about using the disabled bathroom in KFC for changing her baby, and getting told to put the change table back up.

Apparently she didn't know you should do that in order for disabled people to have more room and was upset there wasn't a sign telling her to.

She obviously has some sort of issue with toilets, and how would she even know if this colleague was disabled?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 22/12/2024 12:30

WarmingClothesontheRadiator · 22/12/2024 12:25

At work, we have ’Inclusive’ toilets

At our work we also have inclusive toilets:
One inclusive of all males regardless of how they dress, what they identify as, any cosmetic surgery they may have had, or what ever their religion.
One inclusive of all females regardless of how they dress, what they identify as, and cosmetic surgery they may have had, whatever their religion or their experience of male violence including sexual violence.
One inclusive of those who need a toilet due to physical disabilities and may need it at short-notice so part of the adjustment is to have a this toilet exclusive for their use.

Well said. The word 'inclusive' is starting to make my toes curl. It's ok - and in circumstances absolutely necessary- for spaces and places to be exclusive of certain groups/people.

Exclusive isn't and shouldn't be a bad word.

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:29

@DaphneduMaureen You might want to actually read your link 🤣

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 22/12/2024 12:29

FourEyesGood · 22/12/2024 10:18

Until there is a unisex toilet or one dedicated to those who are non-binary, there is nowhere else for this person to go.

Really, how does it affect you? It’s not as if they’re in there all day, is it? (If they are, that’s a bigger issue.)

Of course there is somewhere for them to go. Non binary people are either male or female, like everyone else.

WarmingClothesontheRadiator · 22/12/2024 12:29

You are being discriminatory because you're bringing up something which has zero effect on you

That is not what being discriminatory is. Quite the opposite, as an employee she to ensuring her employee is being proactive in ensuring disabled employees and customers are not discriminated against. Something they have a duty to do.

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 22/12/2024 12:29

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:22

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle I would have been willing to discuss this with you if you hadn't been so needlessly rude and unpleasant, especially as I have been invisibly disabled (for years) myself before becoming very obviously visibly disabled and as such, know both sides. But tbh I just can't spend the effort on someone who reacts like you do.

You said

If the colleague has a significant disability then it's fine for them to use that loo, but for the purposes of the thread I am taking OP at her word that they don't.

You and the OP have no idea about this. You would have no idea looking at me. What is "a significant disability" ? Do you get to decide if mine is "significant" enough to meet your criteria?

Hotflushesandchilblains · 22/12/2024 12:28

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:26

@Hotflushesandchilblains Of course you have a condition! It's necessary that you must in order to argue with the mean nasty disabled woman who just wants access to her own toilet and not to have to wait so long she soils her very expensive wheelchair that is hard to clean.

But of course. Everyone else who wants it needs that toilet as much as I do. Of course.

Oh stop with the victim role. I have a disability. End of. But hey, carry on feeling offended. I wont be engaging with it.

verysmellyjelly · 22/12/2024 12:28

latetothefisting · 22/12/2024 12:26

but neither elderly people, nor young families are disabled either?

So it's actually a "disabled/baby change/people who need more room/people with young children (and, at least in my work 'open to anyone else when the other toilet is being used because it's silly to hang around and wait if there's an empty toilet right there,')" toilet. In essence, a "special circumstances" toilet, rather than strictly a "physical disabilities ONLY" toilet.

In which case one more person using it for, what, 5 minutes a day isn't going to make a huge difference in terms of general accessibility.

Edited

It's actually a disabled toilet that some other people use, and are generally tolerated using, but the more that there is constant pushback against it being for disabled people, the more negative our experiences become, only no one cares because if anything they think we have too many concessions already and want to take this away too (nothing special for you gross crips!).

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