Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

The ‘check your privilege’ retort is a nonsense and loaded with assumptions.

I see the professional beggars as well. They have the same signs - ending in ‘god bless.’

They have been seen being ‘dropped to work’ by gangs. The dogs are passed around and the signs are usually written by one of the gang hence they are identical.

Every day I pass one particular man, young with clear skin and eyes, who cycles to his spot in full rain gear and his prop (sleeping bag) strapped on the bike. I have also seen him getting on the train with his bike. Partner has seen him getting off in a nice area.

People give him food a lot of which can be seen in a nearby lane.

There are many videos showing the ‘pretend’ homeless on YouTube.

We should be discussing the ‘fake’ homeless without being accused of whatever the latest insult is by people so determined to virtue signal that they are no longer able to see what’s right before their eyes.

In my part of London, the beggars are organised by gangs, with identical signs, and you often see them being collected by cars in the evening. I don't give them money as I don't want to support gangs, and possibly trafficking. It's not a lack of empathy, just not wanting to support crime (I assume it's illegal to run gangs of people begging for money under false pretences?). I donate to registered charities instead.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Can you genuinely not see the difference between giving a homeless person food or a bottle of whisky? You are surely being obtuse.

Yet on another homelessness thread where people are begging, anyone who says that they give food rather than money are pilloried. There is is a post on this thread from someone who says they are a doctor, who gives money because, walk a day in their shoes/if that's what they need.

There is a huge amount of sanctimony on this thread. I hope that everyone here is actually doing something rather than just finger-wagging. No need for fanfare, just quietly doing what they can. Don't assume that those of us on the 'other side' haven't and don't continue to support.

this is interesting, https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/22/uk-to-open-its-first-safe-drug-consumption-room-amid-soaring-deaths?CMP=share_btn_url. I have seen people shooting up in the alleys in my area and once saw a guy using puddle water to cook up a hit out on the local recreation ground. Comsumption rooms save lives and also help to reduce the impact of public drug use.

On the other hand, I have heard terrible stories of fake beggars. One man in a nearby city simply sits on the pavement looking pitiful without saying anything, and people give him money. But he's not homeless or a drug addict, and when the day ends he dresses in normal clothes and boasts about his large earnings.

@WishinAndHopin

Just engage your imagination for a moment and think about what it would take for you to sit on a cold, dirty city pavement and spend hours not speaking and looking pitiful. No phone, no conversation, no shelter. How much would you have to earn to make that a viable and attractive use of your time?

Please; think before you repeat rubbish.

This*

Tjis is a joke right? Satire?

It's about choice, if your education stops at age 11 because this is what your parents choose you are then denied the choices that completing education can bring, you are less able to earn a reasonable wage, to have choices about where and how you live. Imagine if the cessation of formal education for 11 year old girls was the cultural norm throughout the UK, people would rghlty be outraged. I used to chat to one of the lads that lived next door to me, his English was excellent, he was intelligent but had dropped out of education at age 14 and he had never even been into the city centre, i used to ask him if he'd like to go to town, to mix with other young people and he said he would and he looked really wistful, he stays within the family as the rest of them do not speak English and he was their conduit to wider society. I guess my argument one of taking advantage of the things that the country you have chosen to live in has to offer.We have a large Roma population where I live so I am speaking from the perspective of the things that I have observed. I also have a friend who teaches in the area and has told me that the deliverate removal of girls from formal schooling is a significant safeguarding issue as the school has to try and track these children

It’s probably none of my business what you choose for your 11 year old, or what value your family puts on education etc.

In that… they’re not my 11 year old.

With the obvious exceptions, people can do whatever they want in their own homes.

What a weird post. Life is more nuanced than that.

There is a lot of othering going on in this thread as it is easier to draw distance from people and focus on differences, rather than accepting the vulnerability and uncertainty that many of us could face homelessness if we experienced a spate of bad luck and poor circumstances. It feels safer to demonise these people, label them as ‘addicts’ and cast moral judgements. Nobody sets out in life wanting to be homeless and substance dependent. Nobody should be homeless in this day and age, this is a government failing and it is a disgrace. People need our compassion and understanding, not bitterness and sanctimony. What a horrible thread, especially at Christmas.

The idea that there are thousands of people pretending to be homeless in order to gain a few pounds is preposterous and patently false. This is the same as the Daily Fail benefit scrounger narrative, when the vast majority of benefit claimants are genuine. It is hilarious that people genuinely think those ‘pretending’ to be homeless are doing so to fund their lavish lifestyles! Have you seen the pittance people on the streets get given? Have you any idea what living on the streets does to your self worth and sense of self? Importantly do you really think any well adjusted person with their faculties in tact would consider a career in pretending to be homeless? There is an astounding amount of ignorance of the complexity of mental health in this thread and the interplay between poverty, mental health and addiction. Life on the streets is deeply traumatic - no one would choose this. I have worked with people who struggled with homelessness, addiction and trauma - who managed to improve their lives by sheer tenacity, the postcode lottery of being able to access services for support and the smallest glimmer of hope for a different life. It was a genuine privilege to be a part of individuals journeys to a place of security and tentative self worth. Their stories and insights will forever stay with me, because often people have faced unimaginable horrors to have led them to such dire circumstances- it is not a simple matter of ‘choice’ or getting a free meal every week being a solution.

Just be bloody grateful life has been good enough to you that you aren’t sleeping rough this Christmas, taking substances that contain god knows what, just to momentarily relieve you of the pain. I know I will be.

This thread has a strong whiff of Tory about it. The same old boring rhetoric of all blame being put upon the vulnerable, and absolutely no responsibility to those who are in a position of power to change things. Homelessness and addiction are social problems that require systemic multifaceted solutions - by the government. Let’s ignore the real economic drains on society, the ultra rich with their offshore banking and tax evasion. This costs the economy an awful lot more than people sleeping on the streets. But I guess the elite ultra rich are aspirational aren’t they, and the blame for everything always falls to the most vulnerable in society. We all need to wake up!

I agree with a previous posters suggestion that the OP should spend Christmas volunteering, perhaps then they would find a new perspective and shred of empathy.

So if my 11 year old wants to drop out of school, that’s up to them to make that decision is it?

Or if I want them to drop out so they can clean my house and cook my meals for me?

You are walking HOME
Presumably home is warm, dry and safe?
I spend quite a bit of time in Manchester and while there IS a problem with addicted and people with MH issues on the streets I have never felt threatened by any of them, you can just move away if you are worried.

This is so very moving. I am now divorced from a man who would sneer down his nose, passing people in doorways and say as he walked by “Now THAT’S quality begging!” He’d disapprove if I made any donation; food bank, actually a begging person or even a dog rescue charity. His family were the same. All good degrees and jobs and not a charitable bone in their body. They’d be quite “empathic” about those less fortunate up to the point of being within 6 feet of them and then look at people with absolute contempt because it was, clearly, “their” own fault.

I came away from this marriage and struggled massively to the point where I was close to breakdown, alcoholism and the loss of everything. I have, several years later, turned a corner but fully recognise that there was a hairs breadth between me, the lady with a good career/home/friends etc and a person who lost everything.

As you say, “There But For The Grace …” and thank you for saying it.

Absolutely the problem is identifying who is who

Constance Martin

People seem unable or unwilling to grasp this obvious point. This whole thread is thoroughly depressing and a reminder of how the Tory loss in July was really all about Covid and not to do with their utter mismanagement of every other aspect of government.

For probably the first time ever, I agree with you. The Tories spent 14 years not putting their citizens first. The number of people sleeping rough is 120% higher than when data collection began in 2010.

While they might make you uncomfortable, I'm not sure they chose to become homeless. Maybe they weren't born in to an upper middle class Tory home and given massive houses and inheritances for doing nothing? Let me guess - you didn't either? This is a Tory post though.

he's got a flat and loads of money stashed under his mattress

This tale is one of the tallest I have ever read on MN.

This is also one of the most mean-spirited threads I have ever read on MN, though heartening that so many decent, compassionate people have posted their support for those less fortunate than themselves.

Merry Christmas everyone. I hope life is kind to you in 2025.

There's a group of Eastern European women who use the same train as me. They have shopping trolleys with them. I always wondered what they were doing but found out they travel to a city and sell the big issue. The return fare is £30 per day, so not cheap. They are met by men when they get off the train. Not homeless. Madness. How are they allowed to be here and allowed to be doing this?

While you police people’s privilege. I am wondering why there are so many homeless with so much taxes raised in this so called “ civilised society” It seems that the priorities of the government are not that of putting their citizens first.

You think there are services in place to help them?!

Have you not notice this issue has increased with austerity?

The Eastern Europeans buy the Big Issue from unofficial sellers and then always say they don't have change and have sob stories to scam more money from naive people. They get picked up in the evening and driven to their accommodation. I saw an article on a homeless man in the local press this week. I know his brother and he's got a flat and loads of money stashed under his mattress; his mum does all his washing and cleaning. Sorry, but this country is full of bleeding hearts who take everything at face value.