Page 5 | Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/12/2024 07:59

I do believe vulnerable minorities get run and trafficked by criminal gangs. They are still, for whatever reason, vulnerable. If you have direct knowledge / evidence, might I suggest you become a thorn in the side of your local police and councillors, and if nothing is done take it to the press. I mean, if average Jo can't move on the streets for being harrassed by these highly organised and aggressive gangs, then that's a serious civil and criminal issue that is being completely ignored.

Another question for the OP and the other hard liners on the thread. What exactly is your proposed final solution for removing those you perceive to be undesirable from our society?

Makingchocolatecake · 23/12/2024 07:22

Where do you expect the actual homeless people to go? If there were enough services and charities they would be there, not sleeping rough. Why would an actual homeless person want to sleep rough instead of a hostel? (Maybe there are legit reasons but I can't think of any).

TempestTost · 23/12/2024 07:13

JollyHollyMe · 22/12/2024 22:22

I live in central London near a large shelter
If I was to step out my door I would see homeless people within 2 minutes
At the moment there are 3 main types:

The well established all year round- they come and go a bit. Beg outside the local shop- hang around together. All British- a few women but mostly men. The younger ones do drugs in the tube (in full view) and some sleep there. I get them coffee, very occasionally cash, quite often give them a can of cider/beer from a 4 pack. Occasionally I see them elsewhere in London and they are as surprised as I am- they have a patch. I know who is there at 2 am and who sleeps where as I see them every day. Not aggressive- usually say hello. They do go into the shelter- they get clean clothes very regularly and usually have decent trainers and coats on (donated I assume). They sometimes get rehomed but usually it fails and they tell you that they are back. They used to hang out outside Pret and when the 5 coffees a day thing was on everyone got them drinks. I have had to call ambulance/police many times when someone is injured/overdose. I found someone dead (I Think) one morning when walking the dog.

A quick walk to the more touristy areas and the Roma are there. I am sure that some are trafficked and that they receive benefits and they are taken from them. The police say that they are all legal. They are not there at 2am. You do see them being dropped off. You also see the same people all over central London- so no set patch.

In the past few weeks there have been young and quite well dressed beggars on the tube and on the streets. Never seen the like before in the years that I have lived here. Women in tracksuits, trainers and with handbags just walking up and asking for cash. Commented to a colleague about it only last week. They are quite aggressive. Seem to be beggars but not homeless.

Edited

I don't understand why some people refuse to believe there are people being run as organized crime in this way, and in some cases being trafficked?

There are people happy to run girls as prostitutes, and young people as pickpockets, why wouldn't they run beggars?

My experience is the same as yours, you do get to know the people who genuinely live in your area and are struggling.

TempestTost · 23/12/2024 06:58

lifeonmars100 · 22/12/2024 10:56

this is interesting, https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/dec/22/uk-to-open-its-first-safe-drug-consumption-room-amid-soaring-deaths?CMP=share_btn_url. I have seen people shooting up in the alleys in my area and once saw a guy using puddle water to cook up a hit out on the local recreation ground. Comsumption rooms save lives and also help to reduce the impact of public drug use.

I lived in a neighborhood with a site like this. It certainly does not reduce problems in the neighbourhood, quite the opposite.

It's also pretty questionable that they save lives. Certainly, people who are in them if they OD are less likely to die. Which is how they create those statistics - every person "saved" is counted.

What they don't ask is to what extent providing supposedly safe drugs changes people's behaviour, or changes their perceptions about addiction.

If you look at where this has been tried at scale, it's a complete failure. People always point to Portugal as the success of harm reduction, but they not only also provided easy access to rehab services, they made it very difficult for people to refuse to go to them - they had very much a carrot/stick approach which does not seem to happen in other places where they have tried it.

Head off to San Francisco or Vancouver to see the results.

FungusTap · 23/12/2024 04:52

To quote @JollyHollyMe

“In the past few weeks there have been young and quite well dressed beggars on the tube and on the streets. Never seen the like before in the years that I have lived here. Women in tracksuits, trainers and with handbags just walking up and asking for cash. Commented to a colleague about it only last week. They are quite aggressive. Seem to be beggars but not homeless.”

I had this on a busy shopping street in Liverpool - a very tidily dressed man, in his 30’s - it caught me off guard. He was intimidating, my immediate thought was that he could have a knife. Passers by noticed nothing, he simply didn’t look the part. He slithered off when he realised I wasn’t alone, DH had been a few steps behind me.

lmoh · 23/12/2024 04:15

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

Tooes · 23/12/2024 03:45

Onand · 21/12/2024 07:54

Is anyone else sick and tired of the huge number of ‘homeless’ beggars, alcoholics and addicts that descended on the streets since the Christmas rush started this year?

Manchester is rife with them- this year there is a particularly ropey bunch of alcoholics/ addicts that are obnoxiously ‘sleeping’ or sitting with their bags pointing directly out into the street instead of being against a wall, they’re building ‘dens’ in shop doorways which stink of human faeces and piss, dealers go from spot to spot, dogs forced to sit in uncomfortable situations (often not even their dog as the same one gets passed from beggar to beggar).

It’s a self perpetuating problem because soup kitchens serving buffets set up and cater meals for them whilst they’re generally being a nuisance and making the streets look an absolute shitty mess. Why are they tolerated? People need to stop giving them money as it just encourages them to keep doing it when there are services in place to help them.

Bah humbug I know, but It’s beyond grim.

My disdain for the less well off is not season bound

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 23/12/2024 03:41

MyGhastIsFlabbered · 22/12/2024 16:04

Wow, Rishi or Suella is that you? These people, for whatever reason, have obviously been failed by society. Nobody would voluntarily sleep on the streets in December, or any time. If you don't like it, don't give to them, simple as that, but to post about how dreadful they are is just disgusting. I hope you learn some compassion and empathy in the very near future.

Rishi/Suella have more nuance!

Applepoop · 23/12/2024 02:32

Dungareesarecool · 22/12/2024 00:06

That must’ve been terrifying. I’m assuming this was a random burglar and not a family member on drugs ?

Show quote history

Yes a random burglar

Crikeyalmighty · 23/12/2024 00:10

@thesunisastar I'm certainly centre left and I agree with you -if we all dismiss these concerns we end up with vast swathes of the population lurching to the right - the fact is it's a mixed bag- we leave in Bath and it's clear we have some very genuine situations and a whole bunch of professionals at it too- I have found the professionals tend to be keen on posher touristy places - we really though do need as a society to be converting unused facilities into shelters with single rooms and facilities and support -

Original poster

Onand · 22/12/2024 23:43

Comedycook · 22/12/2024 22:41

Near me there are several regular drug addicts who walk the streets and stand outside the supermarket begging. One of them does have a flat (even has his keys attached to him) and is quite well dressed...he just wants money for drugs. Not sure if the others are actually homeless. What really fucks me off is when they have the sheer audacity to ask teenagers making their way to school for money...

Oh and I've been in central London and have seen discarded needles on the pavement. It's fucking disgusting and I really do struggle to feel sympathy when they are scaring others and putting people at risk

Edited

It’s beyond grim. They’re chancers and give those in genuine need a bad name. A scourge on our streets and it only seems to be getting worse.

Theres a decently dressed older man in Manchester who approaches you claiming he’s lost his car keys and just needs money for a train home. Every week. The audacity and cheek is just wow, it does make me wonder how many naive nice people fall for his scam, usually on weekends when visitors are more likely to take pity and the story could potentially be true.

He’s no different to those sat spiced out of their mind or aggressively selling the ‘last copy’ of the Big Issue. Maddening.

OP posts:

Original poster

Onand · 22/12/2024 23:33

tearsandtiaras · 22/12/2024 20:12

Please can this thread be taken down.

Its deeply saddening.

OP i pity you with your sanctimonious views.
I hope you have the Christmas you deserve and end up sad and alone

I pity you more, completely oblivious to the point of the thread which is about beggars and addicts blighting our streets when those in real desperate need often go unnoticed behind closed doors.

Are you saddened to see so many agree with me? Those poll results are more in favour than not.

Lastly don’t speak about a ‘sad thread’ when you clearly have a twisted soul to wish a stranger a ‘Christmas they deserve’.

OP posts:

Comedycook · 22/12/2024 22:41

Near me there are several regular drug addicts who walk the streets and stand outside the supermarket begging. One of them does have a flat (even has his keys attached to him) and is quite well dressed...he just wants money for drugs. Not sure if the others are actually homeless. What really fucks me off is when they have the sheer audacity to ask teenagers making their way to school for money...

Oh and I've been in central London and have seen discarded needles on the pavement. It's fucking disgusting and I really do struggle to feel sympathy when they are scaring others and putting people at risk

JollyHollyMe · 22/12/2024 22:22

I live in central London near a large shelter
If I was to step out my door I would see homeless people within 2 minutes
At the moment there are 3 main types:

The well established all year round- they come and go a bit. Beg outside the local shop- hang around together. All British- a few women but mostly men. The younger ones do drugs in the tube (in full view) and some sleep there. I get them coffee, very occasionally cash, quite often give them a can of cider/beer from a 4 pack. Occasionally I see them elsewhere in London and they are as surprised as I am- they have a patch. I know who is there at 2 am and who sleeps where as I see them every day. Not aggressive- usually say hello. They do go into the shelter- they get clean clothes very regularly and usually have decent trainers and coats on (donated I assume). They sometimes get rehomed but usually it fails and they tell you that they are back. They used to hang out outside Pret and when the 5 coffees a day thing was on everyone got them drinks. I have had to call ambulance/police many times when someone is injured/overdose. I found someone dead (I Think) one morning when walking the dog.

A quick walk to the more touristy areas and the Roma are there. I am sure that some are trafficked and that they receive benefits and they are taken from them. The police say that they are all legal. They are not there at 2am. You do see them being dropped off. You also see the same people all over central London- so no set patch.

In the past few weeks there have been young and quite well dressed beggars on the tube and on the streets. Never seen the like before in the years that I have lived here. Women in tracksuits, trainers and with handbags just walking up and asking for cash. Commented to a colleague about it only last week. They are quite aggressive. Seem to be beggars but not homeless.

FelixtheAardvark · 22/12/2024 22:16

cosietea · 21/12/2024 08:07

Check your privilege

I have "checked" my privilege.
It's working OK thanks.

[Now go away and look up the UK definition of the word "check".]

Plastictrees · 22/12/2024 22:13

tearsandtiaras · 22/12/2024 20:12

Please can this thread be taken down.

Its deeply saddening.

OP i pity you with your sanctimonious views.
I hope you have the Christmas you deserve and end up sad and alone

I totally agree.

SleeplessInWherever · 22/12/2024 21:58

Onand · 22/12/2024 19:47

Exactly this.

They need to take responsibility for themselves -addiction or not. The homeless charities in Manchester won’t accept many of them because of their poor behaviour and utter contempt for living within the system. Instead they blight the streets like something out of a horror film with druggie alcoholic gatherings- it’s beyond grim and quite frightening especially for young child being exposed to someone shooting up outside Boots or pissing themselves in the middle of the pavement outside Spar.

Those who are in a genuinely dreadful situation have the sense to seek help and do better for themselves.

Waving that mental health card to excuse homelessness and addiction is mute in my view.

Your last point about us not excusing other bad behaviours due to MH is especially poignant, I hope it makes a few people think.

Show quote history

Those in a genuinely dreadful situation have the sense to seek help and do better.

Yes. Nobody ever gets entrenched or stuck in dreadful situations. Nobody ever loses either the desire or motivation to get out of those situations. Nobody ever eventually doesn’t expect/want better.

Dear god. What an awful way to think.

User135644 · 22/12/2024 21:34

Itsoneofthose · 22/12/2024 21:17

@User135644 virtue signalling is a hollow act, when people are living by what they say, it's not virtue signalling. This thread has brought out some very ugly opinions. Try speaking to an addict, find out their story and you'll often fully understand why they're on drugs. Do you know how difficult it is to access a drugs rehabilitation programme via local authority in the Uk? To pay privately it is 7k. You have no idea at all.

Rough sleepers should be provided secure accommodation- get them off the streets

Rehab/addiction centres have to be more accessible. Get beggars off the streets.

There needs to be a will to deal with it properly. Giving money to addicts makes people part of the problem.

User135644 · 22/12/2024 21:30

If you give money to an addict, cut out the middle man and give the money straight to organised crime.

Look what's been done to California. It just doesn't happen in Republican cities and states.

Begging should be criminalised.

Itsoneofthose · 22/12/2024 21:22

@User135644 'people giving money to beggars are a scourge to society'...of all the scourges to society, you pick people giving money to beggars. Dear me. I give up.

Itsoneofthose · 22/12/2024 21:17

@User135644 virtue signalling is a hollow act, when people are living by what they say, it's not virtue signalling. This thread has brought out some very ugly opinions. Try speaking to an addict, find out their story and you'll often fully understand why they're on drugs. Do you know how difficult it is to access a drugs rehabilitation programme via local authority in the Uk? To pay privately it is 7k. You have no idea at all.

User135644 · 22/12/2024 20:55

NotOneOfTheInCrowd · 21/12/2024 11:06

The virtue signallers are out in force I see.

I’ll buy someone a coffee or a sandwich, or give to a charity, but there’s no way I am paying money for someone to go out and get their next hit.

And for the people who say “who am I to judge, if I was in that position I too might be addicted,” by giving that money to a drug addiction, you are fuelling the drug trade, the associated trafficking and other crimes, and you are giving a hit to that drug addict who might possibly sexually assault your daughter or another woman or be violent to the next person who refuses them money.

If someone came on here saying their partner was a drug addict they would be advised to LTB and he was bad news. But post about drug addicts on the street and suddenly you’re wrong for not buying them drugs (cause yes, if you give them money, that’s exactly what you’re doing) and opening up your home to them? Get real.

Liberals are an absolute menace. People giving money to beggars are a scourge to society.

Itsoneofthose · 22/12/2024 20:13

@NantesElephant having distain for someone who is begging is really something else.

tearsandtiaras · 22/12/2024 20:12

Please can this thread be taken down.

Its deeply saddening.

OP i pity you with your sanctimonious views.
I hope you have the Christmas you deserve and end up sad and alone

NantesElephant · 22/12/2024 20:12

Fluufer · 22/12/2024 19:51

But I'm not talking about homeless people. I'm talking about people who beg.
You can laugh @Plastictrees , but the words are not interchangeable. Surely someone as knowledgeable as you would know that.

Edited

Show quote history

Yes - this ⬆️

As I pointed out upthread, the majority of homeless people do not beg. At least two thirds do not. They are invisible to the general public, and are more likely to be young people.

And the majority who beg are not sleeping rough. Most have serious problems, such as addiction, and are vulnerable to exploitation, so still be kind to them if it feels safe.