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Original poster

Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

613 replies

Onand · 21/12/2024 07:54

Is anyone else sick and tired of the huge number of ‘homeless’ beggars, alcoholics and addicts that descended on the streets since the Christmas rush started this year?

Manchester is rife with them- this year there is a particularly ropey bunch of alcoholics/ addicts that are obnoxiously ‘sleeping’ or sitting with their bags pointing directly out into the street instead of being against a wall, they’re building ‘dens’ in shop doorways which stink of human faeces and piss, dealers go from spot to spot, dogs forced to sit in uncomfortable situations (often not even their dog as the same one gets passed from beggar to beggar).

It’s a self perpetuating problem because soup kitchens serving buffets set up and cater meals for them whilst they’re generally being a nuisance and making the streets look an absolute shitty mess. Why are they tolerated? People need to stop giving them money as it just encourages them to keep doing it when there are services in place to help them.

Bah humbug I know, but It’s beyond grim.

OP posts:
VoodooRajin · 23/12/2024 09:16

'If they would rather die, they had better do it and decrease the surplus population'.....
Who needs dickens when we have the annual scrooge thread on mumsnet

PandoraSox · 23/12/2024 09:12

OneBadKitty · 23/12/2024 09:03

What? Everyone already knows the answer to your patronising post- makes no difference once somebody is at the stage of deep alcoholism, hard drug addiction, rough sleeping and is refusing to access services. Help is needed way before they get to that stage.

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Help is needed way before they get to that stage

Well, isn't that exactly the point @MistressoftheDarkSide was making? The point you so rudely dismissed.

Itsoneofthose · 23/12/2024 09:11

@westisbest1982 real life to some of these people is hard, cold, merciless and right wing. It's vomit inducing.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/12/2024 09:10

OneBadKitty · 23/12/2024 09:03

What? Everyone already knows the answer to your patronising post- makes no difference once somebody is at the stage of deep alcoholism, hard drug addiction, rough sleeping and is refusing to access services. Help is needed way before they get to that stage.

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Patronising? How so?

I ask again - if there is so much help and support available in the early stages, how and why do all these "no-hopers" get to that point? Why is it an unreasonable question? If everyone knows the answer, spell it out for me.

westisbest1982 · 23/12/2024 09:08

Asking for this thread to be taken down is ridiculous. I think some people here sit around waiting to be offended by the slightest thing. Real life isn’t this warm and fluffy thing where we all reside in our echo chambers, and these forums should reflect that.

PandoraSox · 23/12/2024 09:08

Onand · 23/12/2024 08:22

My ideal solution would be to make it a criminal offence to beg on the streets and enforce it by consistently moving them on, repeat known offenders handed town centre bans. I would make it very difficult, to put off those who may see it as a way of life. Zero tolerance. I’d invest more in services which help those who want help.

Anyone shooting up or clearly in a comatose Spice state to be sent to mandatory clean up facilities.

There would be no sleeping bags or tents on our high streets either. Those found with dogs and no fixed address would have them seized for the safety and well-being of the animal.

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Maybe the homeless could be whipped from parish to parish? I am sure you would enjoy that.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 23/12/2024 09:07

Most of the beggars we used to get in the town centre were almost certainly Eastern Europeans, run by gangmasters - they all held identical placards - but have mostly vanished since COVID, since far fewer people carry cash any more.
We do have a few who may be genuine, but I’m afraid I stopped giving cash years ago, after a ‘regular’ I often gave to, was revealed as a fraud - he had a flat (owned, not rented) and had a very healthy stash in the bank.

Nowadays I just give to Crisis, the Sally Army, and St Mungo’s (they let them bring their dogs). 🐶

OneBadKitty · 23/12/2024 09:03

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/12/2024 08:52

Perhaps we should figure out why some people aren't willing to help themselves? Why their self-worth is non-existent? How does one get to that point? I have a few ideas. I'd like to hear yours?

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What? Everyone already knows the answer to your patronising post- makes no difference once somebody is at the stage of deep alcoholism, hard drug addiction, rough sleeping and is refusing to access services. Help is needed way before they get to that stage.

Plastictrees · 23/12/2024 08:58

YaWeeFurryBastard · 23/12/2024 08:54

To be fair, your and other’s posts have been deleted for numerous personal attacks which are unnecessary and against talk guidelines. You may have some valid points but the level of aggression and offensive language you’re using is undermining them.

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Absolute rubbish. All my posts bar one are still on the thread, which eloquently describe why the ignorance and hatefulness on this thread is concerning. But no, just focus on tone policing how generous of you.

This entire thread is offensive, you must be wilfully blind.

Itsoneofthose · 23/12/2024 08:57

@YaWeeFurryBastard they weren't aggressive at all. OP's comments are inflammatory and outrageous and have baited a passionate response. But aggressive, no.

Itsoneofthose · 23/12/2024 08:56

@Plastictrees I completely agree. It's very dark and I'm amazed the thread wasn't stopped. OP needs to look at themselves and their own life in therapy to explore why they see the world through such a lens.

YaWeeFurryBastard · 23/12/2024 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

To be fair, your and other’s posts have been deleted for numerous personal attacks which are unnecessary and against talk guidelines. You may have some valid points but the level of aggression and offensive language you’re using is undermining them.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/12/2024 08:52

OneBadKitty · 23/12/2024 08:49

By all accounts, it is fairly common for homeless people to refuse a hostel place- their lives are very chaotic with deep addictions, severe mental health conditions and fear of authorities. There are several reasons they might refuse a place and some people are not in a position where they can mentally accept help. Even when help is available there are many that will refuse it because getting help means facing up to your problems which is often harder than sleeping on the streets. You can only help people when they are willing to help themselves.

Edited
Show quote history

Perhaps we should figure out why some people aren't willing to help themselves? Why their self-worth is non-existent? How does one get to that point? I have a few ideas. I'd like to hear yours?

OneBadKitty · 23/12/2024 08:49

Makingchocolatecake · 23/12/2024 07:22

Where do you expect the actual homeless people to go? If there were enough services and charities they would be there, not sleeping rough. Why would an actual homeless person want to sleep rough instead of a hostel? (Maybe there are legit reasons but I can't think of any).

By all accounts, it is fairly common for homeless people to refuse a hostel place- their lives are very chaotic with deep addictions, severe mental health conditions and fear of authorities. There are several reasons they might refuse a place and some people are not in a position where they can mentally accept help. Even when help is available there are many that will refuse it because getting help means facing up to your problems which is often harder than sleeping on the streets. You can only help people when they are willing to help themselves.

Plastictrees · 23/12/2024 08:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

VoodooRajin · 23/12/2024 08:46

Onand · 23/12/2024 08:02

Many homeless charities openly acknowledge some of them simply do not engage with their services or their behaviour and conduct is so detrimental that they are not allowed to stay in their facilities.

They’re not all innocent angelic victims of big bad society- some of them have terrible pasts and chaotic lives of their own doing. The hostels have to be kept safe for those staying, would you want to be sleeping in a unit with wild alcoholic addicts causing chaos?

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Love the italics, just to drive the message home the feckers done it to themselves!

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/12/2024 08:46

Also, I would like your analysis of why these problems are proliferation?

What is it that has caused the escalation do you think? And when did the tide start to turn?

Why have such grim alleged "lifestyle choices" become apparently more desirable than "fitting in" and being part of "normal society"?

Is it possibly the effects of current economic policy or do you think people just wake up one morning and think "Hmm, I fancy trying my hand at being perceived as a scourge on society" ?

Original poster
Onand · 23/12/2024 08:30

Inkyblue123 · 23/12/2024 08:21

There will always be people who take the piss, in every walk of life. They have the right to beg and you have the right to ignore them. If there is any aggressive begging I just tell them I’ll be calling the police if they carry on. Pick pockets and muggers piss
ne off more- choose where you invest your emotions. I just don’t have the energy to be angry with everyone.

When your walk to and from work every day is through a homeless heavy city centre it’s hard to dismiss or simply ignore. It’s clearly visible, it’s actually grim to be walking past doorways stinking of human excrement, the businesses which have to clean this up day after day do not deserve it either. Would you want that?

The city is slowly becoming a dirty ghetto hovel which I cannot avoid because I have to live and work in it.

OP posts:
Beeinalily · 23/12/2024 08:29

People keep quoting the same line from "A Christmas Carol" (thus proving that they haven't read the thread), but actually - hate me if you will, I don't care - the idea of workhouses isn't a terrible one, if they were run humanely. Somewhere safe and warm where they would be fed and given reasonable work, would that be so bad? Better and safer than living on the streets surely?

Itsoneofthose · 23/12/2024 08:27

@Onand I'm just amazed your type of views are allowed to be aired on Mumsnet to be honest.

Original poster
Onand · 23/12/2024 08:22

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/12/2024 07:59

I do believe vulnerable minorities get run and trafficked by criminal gangs. They are still, for whatever reason, vulnerable. If you have direct knowledge / evidence, might I suggest you become a thorn in the side of your local police and councillors, and if nothing is done take it to the press. I mean, if average Jo can't move on the streets for being harrassed by these highly organised and aggressive gangs, then that's a serious civil and criminal issue that is being completely ignored.

Another question for the OP and the other hard liners on the thread. What exactly is your proposed final solution for removing those you perceive to be undesirable from our society?

My ideal solution would be to make it a criminal offence to beg on the streets and enforce it by consistently moving them on, repeat known offenders handed town centre bans. I would make it very difficult, to put off those who may see it as a way of life. Zero tolerance. I’d invest more in services which help those who want help.

Anyone shooting up or clearly in a comatose Spice state to be sent to mandatory clean up facilities.

There would be no sleeping bags or tents on our high streets either. Those found with dogs and no fixed address would have them seized for the safety and well-being of the animal.

OP posts:
Inkyblue123 · 23/12/2024 08:21

There will always be people who take the piss, in every walk of life. They have the right to beg and you have the right to ignore them. If there is any aggressive begging I just tell them I’ll be calling the police if they carry on. Pick pockets and muggers piss
ne off more- choose where you invest your emotions. I just don’t have the energy to be angry with everyone.

SleeplessInWherever · 23/12/2024 08:13

Onand · 23/12/2024 08:02

Many homeless charities openly acknowledge some of them simply do not engage with their services or their behaviour and conduct is so detrimental that they are not allowed to stay in their facilities.

They’re not all innocent angelic victims of big bad society- some of them have terrible pasts and chaotic lives of their own doing. The hostels have to be kept safe for those staying, would you want to be sleeping in a unit with wild alcoholic addicts causing chaos?

Show quote history

Lots of them probably have issues of their own causing, for whatever reason they caused them.

Do you believe that those people don’t deserve help? They’ve made their bed/cardboard box and they can lie in it?

You’ve got a real issue with people who have alcohol or drug addictions, leaving them to rot is insanely callous.

Original poster
Onand · 23/12/2024 08:02

Makingchocolatecake · 23/12/2024 07:22

Where do you expect the actual homeless people to go? If there were enough services and charities they would be there, not sleeping rough. Why would an actual homeless person want to sleep rough instead of a hostel? (Maybe there are legit reasons but I can't think of any).

Many homeless charities openly acknowledge some of them simply do not engage with their services or their behaviour and conduct is so detrimental that they are not allowed to stay in their facilities.

They’re not all innocent angelic victims of big bad society- some of them have terrible pasts and chaotic lives of their own doing. The hostels have to be kept safe for those staying, would you want to be sleeping in a unit with wild alcoholic addicts causing chaos?

OP posts: