Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

Are you not understanding what I’m saying?

They’re not all innocent angelic victims of big bad society- some of them have terrible pasts and chaotic lives of their own doing. The hostels have to be kept safe for those staying, would you want to be sleeping in a unit with wild alcoholic addicts causing chaos?

Er…. hostels are for homeless people. Given the prevalence of substance abuse among the homeless population banning people on those grounds wouldn’t work.

Some people don’t like to stay in hostels because they don’t feel safe there, if they have a history of being abused in institutions (say a children’s home) or if they are paranoid because of mental illness, so they may stay out on the street.

Waving that mental health card to excuse homelessness and addiction is mute in my view

“What’s your excuse for being homeless”?
FFS 🤣🤣

The vast majority of people who are homeless have mental health problems. What do you think keeps them homeless? Addiction is often a way of self-medicating mental illness.

Or do you think there’s a bunch of people who wake up one day and think “hey I fancy a drug habit that’ll see me out on the streets”?

‘you are not a racist. Stating the obvious is not racist. Yes, their lives are rubbish. Yes, they are scammers. Yes, they are Roma and my heart breaks for them - having arrived in the UK 20+ years ago, they don't let their children complete their education, they marry off girls under age and they do not use a single opportunity a Western democracy offers. My heart bleeds for their children. There must be so many good teachers, doctors, lawyers, bus drivers, etc. lost because they don't let their children complete their school education and go to university. The fact that the authorities ignore it and say this is 'cultural' is discriminating the children from the Roma families. I actually think that Roma people have been the most abused and discriminated people in the whole history of the world, and that is including slave trade victims, Jews, etc. Yet we sacrifice their children on the altar of political correctness. Shame on us.’

it is exactly the same in France. ‘Traveller sites’ ( nearly all are Roma) which are equipped with water and electricity, paid by the commune, the rubbish is collected by the usual service, the bin bags are left in exactly the same way as all the registered (tax paying ) households.

But, the sites are filthy, drug dealing and prostitution are rife, the children are not in school but are in the supermarkets shoplifting in open sight as they can’t be arrested as ‘too young’. The girls seem to be pregnant as very young teenagers. But the authorities will not ‘interfere’ as that is ‘ a legitimate way of life’. So the children are condemned to very few options, most of which lead to quite short lives. (The situation is worse in France because there is still considerable collective guilt that the Roma were rounded up with the Jews under the Occupation).

Where do you live? not in the UK I assume as we do not have any consumption rooms. I posted with observations about my own area which is currently awful with visible drug use going on in daylight so I am interested in anything that may alleviate the problems. It may work, it may not work, we will have to see how this one in Scotland goes, I am sure that the people who have approved and the people who will be running it will have looked at the examples in other countries.

Yes and because these cycles are perpetuated across generations every intervention we do now will help reduce future trauma alongside current trauma.

@SquirrelSoShiny We need to prevent trauma in the first place, not just increase funding for treatment for trauma and addiction. Eradicating poverty is central to this and addressing myriad social inequalities which fuel abuse, trauma and addiction.

It is possible to hold two perspectives simultaneously, a view which sometimes people struggle with on MN.

I can feel a great deal of empathy for people on the streets while simultaneously recognising that they can cause negative impacts on others around them. That said, we need to make addiction rehabilitation and treatment of underlying trauma a national priority. It will, like every good initiative, cost a lot upfront BUT will pay for itself across generations.

Given that this was my question, I'm genuinely interested in the alleged problem with "tone".I asked for your opinions - we may align in some areas. Or not. Unless you share your thoughts, we'll never know.

Why do some people lack self-worth to the point where they refuse help that is offered? And how do we prevent them reaching that point?

Depends what your definition of working class is?

Well exactly, poverty begets poverty. With no role models of working people and living on benefits being so normalised, it is no wonder a life on benefits can be trans generalisation. This is again a failure of society and a government issue.

I am from a working class background, though admittedly ended up in a middle class profession. I also now claim benefits. What a conundrum for you.

I have a few ideas. I'd like to hear yours?
@MixedCouple2
You really expect others to respond well to this tone?

The OP does not engage with any posts that challenge their world view. Just keeps emerging now and then to spout more ignorant venom. It is hateful towards vulnerable people and the rhetoric is dangerous - they are inciting hate.

I know women who did this for heavens sake. And yes in your middle class bubble, having multiple kids whilst claiming benefits may seem like a shit life, for many they see it as totally normal.

decades ago, getting pregnant was a sure fire way to get your own place and lots of girls did it

That was the favoured Tory/Daily Mail narrative in the 70s and 80s, when single mothers were demonised. Now that narrative has moved on to demonising immigrants, and how they get all the council houses.

Do you really believe a child of 14 would plan her future that way? A future of struggling by on benefits with four children to raise?

Eta: "right on"? 🤣Haven't heard that one for a long time.

No it's not. There's a housing crisis now which a lot of people have wised up to....but yes, especially decades ago, getting pregnant was a sure fire way to get your own place and lots of girls did it. Your attempt to be right on doesn't make it untrue.

In life people have opinions you might not like. Unless MN allows discussion and allows posters with unpopular opinions to be challenged then it will be a very boring place. If you don't like OPs opinion, tell her so and why- you might change her mind or make her think a bit.

If MN removed posts just because the poster holds an opinion that many disagree with, MN would not be a good discussion forum. The OP is as entitled to her opinions as any of you are and she has expressed them without being abusive so there should be no reason to remove the thread.

@MixedCouple2 such low brow views it's untrue. The ignorance is off the scale.

Oh, here come the benefit bashers to make the festive spirit of this thread complete.

My BF at school got knocked up at 14 so she could get a free hpuse and support and went on to have 3 more children by 3 different men to get a bigger place. It worked for her. She was not genuinely in need and plotted this life for herself

In the words of Catherine Tate's nan, what a load of old shit.

It is tricky situation.
In every sector of life you find scammers.

My BF at school got knocked up at 14 so she could get a free hpuse and support and went on to have 3 more children by 3 different men to get a bigger place. It worked for her. She was not genuinely in need and plotted this life for herself.

There is a couple in London (many is stories I hear like this) who pretended to be in a DV situation so they could get a concuil property using the children for extra convincing. After getting said council property they were living there together.

I know Taxi drivers who mess with their books to pay minimum tax when they take home £5k soemtimes on one day such as Xmas or New years. Earning more then £30k more like 70-80k snd get away with it for decade(s). Some many scammers.

Kide who go to uni and get massive burserys that are not means tested but come from wealthy families.

The list goes on and on and on.

I completely agree. This thread is like the Daily Fail on steroids.

If objecting to vulnerable people (and yes I include the people being "bussed in") being dismissed, othered and spoken about as if they are lesser beings means I am in an echo chamber, then I am glad to be in it. Rather that echo chamber than the one@Onand occupies.