Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

How do you know?

Homelessness and begging are not synonymous. Begging happens for many reasons. I never give directly but will offer to buy food if I’ve got the time/money. But we can (and should) have conversations about this issue in ways that don’t dehumanise people. We could all end up in a desperate situation.

I think the equation of "homeless people" and "street beggars" is very harmful to homeless people in general, and reduces public sympathy and understanding.

When I talk about the problem of homelessness in class, students always bring up the person being dropped off in a car outside their local supermarket etc. I've had students who were homeless and staying in temp B&B accommodation - it was so unfair that everyone was lumped in together in the mind of the class.

Several years ago a colleague and I reported a group of Eastern European women begging on the streets, dressed in little more than rags and carrying a sleeping (drugged?) baby. Different women but same baby - identifying birthmark. Dropped off early morning by men in flashy cars, picked up about 7 pm by the same men. Arrests were made, the women and baby taken to safety.

I give to homeless charities, including a brilliant one in my nearby city, but never to individual beggars.

If you were really aware of the stuff in your last paragraph you wouldn't have written the rest of the post.

I hate this time of year. If you are a member of the general public and are concerned, report it politely to your local Council. You can also report to a homeless charity who will let the council know.

Please be aware that there are people ‘performing for the Christmas crowds’ so don’t get on your high horse if you think that someone isn’t being helped when known to services. They are.

Also note that there are patrols of staff going around to check for rough sleepers so 9/10 they are already known about before you report it. There are places people go to which are hidden to rough sleep which are watched. The guy in the doorway of m and s is there for your benefit.

Domestic abuse means different things to different people. This time of year can bring out the arguments. So aswell as people who do need to flee for their own safety (who are given support to do so) we have people in tents with ongoing tenancies who refuse to go home because they were asked to wash up citing abuse to anyone who will listen. We have to thoroughly unpick each one so we can sleep at night.

Please also note that as the asylum process is somewhat overwhelmed, people are coming with issues. Or they don’t like the hotel. Or more often they thought the streets were paved with gold and are now very cross they’ve spent their life savings (between 5k to 30k) to get here and are trying to now make a scene because they are furious. Or they’ve been declined but won’t leave. All in various languages with little English. They take time to deal with.

There is somewhere for everyone to stay which has been assessed to meet their need. when people don’t like it they take to the street. I understand that an average Joe doesn’t want it be in a shared house with drug dealers. That rarely happens, it’s more people don’t want to share with drug dealers who they owe money to. Or they don’t want to live too far from the dealer they know.

Please also remember we have an extensive safety net in the UK. If you let staff do their jobs then more people get the right help more quickly. When the general public with half the story get swept up with the drama of it, and start complaining and kicking off, it makes it harder for everyone. One of the biggest time sucker expenses is dealing with the virtue signallers.

Do not give to beggars.

Did you read the post by @housethatbuiltme who has actually been homeless?

The Big Issue is now a problem because gangs use it and it legitimises the begging. I haven’t bought one for years. Just as @Verydemure has succinctly pointed out. People are ridiculously naive.

I agree with you @Onand it’s grim. There are homeless charities that go out in Manchester every night and offer help and assistance. They don’t want it. The generosity of the people of Manchester keeps them on the streets, they are fed and watered well. I remember one of these charities coming to do a talk at my place of work once, they were saying the best thing to do is to donate to charities not give money/food to the homeless which just keeps them there. So that is what I do.

And yes the stink in Manchester of shit and piss is horrible.

I think it’s fine to point out aggressive behaviour and feeling unsafe. I think it’s fine to point out an increase in these situations. It’s fine to find it difficult to witness and want solutions. The ‘othering’ language and the ‘ew that doesn’t look nice’ shows a complete lack of empathy though and that’s not ok. These are people. People who are vulnerable in different ways. That doesn’t mean we accept aggressive behaviour - that needs pointing out whether it’s someone in a sharp suit or a worn out hoody. We can be concerned at how our society is developing without dehumanising people.

You've really completed this extensive research on your local population?

Apparently, the female Big Issue sellers are likely to be Roma https://thecritic.co.uk/the-issue-with-the-big-issue/

Begging is an industry. There an are some who are genuinely homeless, but there are vast numbers are just taking the naive ‘be kind ‘ brigade for a ride.

It’s not virtuous to be naive. It’s stupid.

I have been punched by a beggar, threatened by a beggar, chased down the street by a beggar. Forgive me if I don't feel terribly "privileged" when I decide not to go into a shop to buy food because I don't know if the man standing in the door asking for money is going to turn nasty or not. (This happened to me yesterday and I had to go to another shop a mile away.)

Banks are trying to help people without an address to access their services now. Otherwise it’s a vicious cycle you can’t get out of.

I have worked in two soup kitchens, well they serve a proper dinner. We served a full Christmas dinner this week.

I am of the opinion there but for the grace of God go I. However aggressive begging is awful no doubt about it. Plus there are gangs, mainly Roma. People really need to stop giving money to beggars. I buy food sometimes though there are few beggars where I live. I ask them what they would like and then ring the local independent homeless charity to alert them of them, I know the people that run it and they often send an outreach worker.

I do think posters need to listen to the op and not criticise. Not listening to valid concerns about begging, immigration and other social issues are leading to a rise of the right. The actual right not the Conservatives. Look at other countries. It’s dangerous times.

Whilst some addicts and alcoholics are self medicating and their lives are tragic no one want to see somebody off their face shouting, maybe pissing in the street in front of children. Many are untreatable, I think people just don’t understand that. Even with the best resources in the world some will never ever stop.

I think you are being a bit naive.

The purpose of the wound is to elicit sympathy and so money.

When you see this day-in, day-out, you get wise to it - and annoyed by it. They’re organised gangs out to scam people.

I don’t think it’s offensive to point that out. How can you tackle the problem without acknowledging what it is.

You clearly dont get out enough. Naivety is t a virtue.

Attitudes may depend on what the experience is where you live.

In my nearest town, beggars are usually the same addicts, who are housed and are begging to raise funds for their next hit. They are sat down with a bowl for the coins, generally fine to chat, no trouble at all.

I visited a big city out of area a few months ago and I was shocked by the scale and aggression of the beggars there, even hassling people coming out of the bank for money. It made me feel unsafe to walk around.

Treating them as human beings, taking the time to chat with them, offering food and drink, I do in my home town. In the city I did not engage. It did not feel safe to.

To fix it is complicated. We need much better access to good quality addiction support services. And social services are on their knees - how many addicts are drowning the pain of childhood abuse that might have been stopped.

We also need a society where people have more hope of a reasonable life. Where drinking / dosing themselves into oblivion doesn’t feel necessary. It’s a big thing to fix but we have to try.

Yes I realise that, but I think this thread shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue of begging. And people rush to show how "nice" they are in comparison with the unspeakable person who objects to stepping over people in doorways who are hounding her for money. Have a read of @housethatbuiltme 's post above.

Yes, absolutely. And there are some thought provoking explainarions on this thread of the complexities of addition and homelessness.

But equally there are a LOT of people throwing self-satisfied insults at the OP and belittling her experience of what can be an unpleasant and intimidating situation, especially for a woman.

When hard line liberals hurl out "check your privilege" do they stop and think and realise that they are directly leading to people becoming more entrenched in the views they find so distasteful?

I’m sorry you went through that and thank you for sharing.

I do have to say though that ‘lifestyle choice’ shows that you don’t fully understand how most people end up in that cycle of addiction.

@housethatbuiltme thanks for your insight

Of course no one wants these things to be happening in their neighbourhood. But to label all homeless people as having made the choice to be so, according to the OP, and others on this thread, without a shred of empathy, or it would seem, scant acknowledging of the reasons that people could find themselves in this position, is what I find totally appalling. Who knows what life could throw at any of us!

Ex prisoners, veterans, survivors of domestic abuse and child abuse, addicts, divorces are all on the streets. It's freezing and not something most people choose. The majority of street homeless have mental health problems.

I'm sorry to hear these people affect your delicate sensibilities. Perhaps you should petition for more support so they no longer bother you.