Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

Yes anyone can become an addict but its foolish to try and suggest that there isnt a far greater chance of a person becoming an addict if they start out in life with less choices. Chaotic home life, with addiction often already in the home, is known to lead a child to be far more likely to develop an addiction themselves.

Less choices is more likely to lead to bad choices.

No idea if he's genuine or just great at marketing.

And this is where we are folks. We now live in a world where everything, from being a yummy mummy on Instagram to being homeless, can be marketed and monetised.

That it is now the default assumption, displays the resulting deep cynicism (probably rightly) across society.

People are no longer human beings. They are products. They will sell you their bodies on only fans, their cleaning tips on Tik Tok, their lowest moments on the street.

In short we're fucked in the compassion stakes. And I can't read anymore of this thread as it would make the worst Dickensian villain proud and has made me deeply depressed.

Your experience does not override what the empirical research states. Poverty and addiction is strongly linked, as is abuse / trauma and addiction. They go hand in hand. You can be middle class and still experience trauma and abuse. People with chronic, long term substance use (that results in homelessness) have a history of trauma the vast majority of the time. There can be various factors that act as buffers against developing addiction, most of these are rooted in privilege such as having a secure home, money, some amount of stability, social support, insight and motivation (much easier when not living in survival mode), access to education and employment opportunities. There is a big difference between dabbling in cocaine and MDMA in your twenties, and being addicted to crystal meth in your forties, losing limbs and living on the streets between stints in NHA funded rehabs. It is absolutely an issue of social deprivation- it is a systemic issue, not an individual one. That is a very Tory mentality, and totally ignorant of the realities of addiction.

It is not an even playing field and we do not have equal choices. Someone who grew up watching their parents high on heroin, in poverty does not have the same ‘choices’ of someone who grew up in a middle class area with safe and emotionally literate parents who gets offered MDMA at a party. These are two vastly different worlds. The former is more likely to use and depend on drugs as a form of emotional regulation, a way of blanking out from and coping with trauma. The latter is more likely to use drugs recreationally to experiment. Of course it is perfectly possible to use drugs and not get addicted, that’s what happens with the majority of people. But the ones who end up dependent will have underlying vulnerabilities to this. You can have millions in the bank and still have an addiction, but to ignore the strong links between poverty (and trauma and abuse) and drug addiction is just plain wrong.

It is easy to have choices when you are privileged.

Do you know what left wing means?

Well you seem very nice - not!

My brother was homeless and died on the streets because he had a mental breakdown. He was an "ordinary bloke", a privately educated, taxation accountant but also homeless. Family tried to help but he wasn't in the frame of mind ...

He was killed on the streets of Mayfair by a well meaning stranger on Christmas Eve who gave a bottle of whiskey to the beggar - a corporate gift - death by acute alcoholic poisoning.

I think the issue is that for every genuinely homeless person, there are three that arent.

Woman who begs outside the supermarket I used to work in is a case in point. We knew she was on the make but she dressed the part, acted the part and people fell for it. Then one day she came in to get some shopping and it really was a cartoon style double take moment when we realised that this beautifully dressed, very well groomed middle aged lad with her grandon was in fact that lady who every other day would stand outside the shop looking like she slept in a skip and dressed in rags. She lived in a 3 bed semi around the corner from one of my colleagues who hadnt realised out that her neighbour and the beggar at work where the same person.

It works for a while but people cotton on and those who genuinely could do with some food or money dont get given any help. There was an article in the local paper from the YMCA about the influx of professional beggars causing big problems for real homeless people including violence towards them for "stealing" their preferred patch.

It does make you wonder. There is a woman who sits outside a local supermarket. She has been there for years. You can pay her by credit card on a sum up machine!

Not always men on the streets though?

Your 6yo doesn't actually understand it though does she? Basic compassion is not the same as actually understanding a very complex situation. The reality isn't as black and white as it is in the mind of a small child.

Anyone can become an addict- it's not limited to those who have suffered trauma or those from socially and economically deprived backgrounds. I have witnessed addiction among my own family and friends- all from loving middle class families. There are also plenty of people who have suffered trauma and people from terribly poor backgrounds who don't become addicts and manage to make a success of their life. The choice ultimately lies with the individual- each of us can only take responsibility for own life whatever hand we've been dealt because nobody can help you if you are not prepared to help yourself.

It’s what causes addiction that is the main issue. Social inequality, poverty, trauma and abuse, poor mental health, social isolation, physical health conditions, lack of suitable housing, lack of community supports. It is a systemic issue which needs addressing as such.

I'd avoid it at night, in particular, especially after around 8pm.

Avoid walking through or right by the car park on Aytoun Street also. That place always felt weird to me and whilst I worked in Manchester, a woman was raped there and it wasn't even in the early hrs of the morning.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4792196,-2.2347932,3a,75y,258.85h,96.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIdxYQpd2OWtSwrGPKTNgNA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-6.674985496485817%26panoid%3DIdxYQpd2OWtSwrGPKTNgNA%26yaw%3D258.8456230432279!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Homelessness is a very complex issue and giving them money can do more harm than good. Donate to charity or give the genuine ones food instead.

@Ebeneser hey but aren’t you missing something? When they ignore the advice of homeless charities and give a few quid directly, they get to feel warm and fuzzy and virtuous inside like they’ve did something really good (even though they haven’t) and that’s all that matters surely? 😵‍💫

If you aren’t aware of the housing crisis in this country then you must have been living under a rock OP. Poor sods. The government are trying to pledge the building of more homes but they’re up against people like you who don’t want them built near them. You know how cold it feels some nights when you go out to the recycling bins. Imagine living on the streets in that. Then again, they’ve got their rags to keep them warm. Have a little read of A Christmas Carol and find some love in your heart

Addiction is the main issue. Funding drug dealers won’t fix that.

Then why bring up the rare cases of those who aren't in need, rather than talk about the absolute tragedies he does come across?
You both will be well aware of how underfunding has impacted which crimes can be responded to and the OP's woes, on why is it allowed, couldn't have a better person than you to explain what your DP deals with instead of making the place look tidier.

I never give money to homeless people. They are usually homeless due to mental health & addiction issues (so will just buy alcohol/drugs), or they are scammers/organised gangs from places like Romania. They also need to want to be helped but many will refuse help as they would need to get clean/abide by any hostel rules etc and they don’t want to do that or just can’t manage to. Homelessness is a very complex issue and giving them money can do more harm than good. Donate to charity or give the genuine ones food instead.

Not really, because the social inequality and trauma that often leads to addiction strips people of choices. Substances become a way of coping with trauma, often from a very young age. To say it’s a ‘choice’ is massively over simplifying the complexity of addiction.

I just moved here around 2/3 years ago so I don’t know if it’s got worse or not but I avoid Piccadilly gardens. I have a poor sense of direction but i plan my route so I don’t have to go past there even if it takes longer.

@nindo Wasn't it much rougher in the 90s & 80s though?

Once established an addiction is very hard to break, but it's the choices that people make that lead to addiction.

In Manchester - which I think is the location referenced in the OP - I know of at least three mobile food services which go out round the city centre at various points in the week. Manchester also runs the Bed Every Night scheme, which aims to find everyone who needs it, somewhere safe, warm and dry to sleep. However a lot of overnight shelters have a no drugs or alcohol rule, so it's not unusual for addicts to prefer to remain outside.

Who made you the decider of who’s genuinely homeless or not?

I left Manchester in around 4 years ago. Has it worsened since then? I found Piccadilly Gardens quite menacing at times. Despite being 'gardens', I felt the need to be on my guard there in particular.

I saw a lady giving a homeless man £5 outside of M&S. He said she had a £20 and he would rather have that and took it from her purse

I think I already mentioned upthread a similar incident except it involved my friend (a teen at the time) who wanted to give £1 and was asked to give £10 when she opened her purse @IncessantNameChanger I’m sure it’s definitely a thing.