Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

But what do those charities and agencies know, eh? It's not as if they're actually at the coal face dealing with addicted people and offering them real help.

It's the virtue signalling posters on mumsnet, who wring their hands, group all of these 'poor souls' into one homogenous group, saying "Something must be done", whilst heckling and berating others who don't buy into their simplistic, finger-wagging. These are the true 'champions'. I don't know what it is that they actually do^ but, I'm sure it must be something?

I've done the 'Big Issue' supporting, most if not all weeks. I won't do it again but I won't criticise anybody who does. The important thing to do is give if you can - but for my money that is the charities and agencies who know what they're doing and are in a position to actually help.

I actually found that posters initial comment slightly ambiguous because lot of people are particularly “vulnerable” for various reasons, and they are often the exact ones that street beggars will target.

Back in 2015 my friend was a young, single mother recently escaped a tough childhood then a violent drunk ex partner and was then living with her 2 year old child in a new city (London) and she would get anxiety at all the men approaching her on her street in south London. Who was the vulnerable one? Not just the men surely!

I’m ND and although I’m fairly streetwise I look younger than my age and give off an air of vulnerability apparently which is partly why I get approached by them a lot. Growing up my friends used to call me a “weirdo magnet” 😵‍💫

I don’t think most people are dunking on homeless people or even street beggars. We all want a way to solve the problem, some of us just don’t agree giving money directly helps or is wise, and also think we need to have empathy for those who are intimidated by people asking for money.

I’m sorry for housethatbuiltme‘s experience, and hope her life is back on track. But her experience of homelessness is just that, Hers and hers alone. There are all differing scenarios for homeless people and they don’t all fit that description, and yes, some of them do have addiction issues. Doesn’t mean they aren’t genuinely homeless. I’m volunteering again this Christmas, taking bedding to and from Church overnight shelters and signposting them to those in need. No matter how much you try, some people will not/ con not take up the offer and so choose to sleep in doorways. They aren’t any less deserving of help, their reasons for being in this situation are many and varied.

The issue also is thay the trafficking and abuse is by their own in most cases ime.
Most of the time when gangmasters and traffickers of EE people were caught, Romas were involved, often ringleaders

In 2017 our local football club owner offered jobs and accomodations to2 homeless guys he had got to know.

However within a couple of weeks one had stolen 5k worth of equipment and the other was doing drugs on the premises

Some people obviously don't want help

@Hwi thank you. I agree with what you say. It's terrible how they've been persecuted. To the point they're being trafficked and abused by gangs to beg for pennies or sell big issue and hand over all their earnings. The world is a cruel fucking place. Sadly x

Funding drug addiction and alcoholism? As a former criminal defence solicitor I am well aware that addicts suffer terrible symptoms if they cannot get a fix, often remedied by shoplifting. If they spend my money on drugs or alcohol that is their choice, they will feel a little better without breaking the law. Exactly what is a charity going to do for them now, this morning - nothing. It is patronising and condescending to treat individuals in this way, where choices we have are not for them.

Not so good if your money {cash donations} kills people by paying for their overdose or furthering their liver damage.

A warm fuzzy feeling for the donor for a few seconds?

Charities who work on the coal face with addicts and alcoholics say not to give money directly.

So proud of all of those on mums net coming out on defence of some of societies most vulnerable. Reassuring how many good people there are out there.

Hear hear!

you make good points @AlertSnail but you’ll also know, addicts don’t just wreck their own lives but often everyone around them. They can be very difficult and challenging people to help and also to like for the reasons @Spangledangle gives in the post directly beneath you..

I think you also have to respect ( and show compassion) to people who don’t want to help, or find their presence annoying. It’s not always through ignorance- often the opposite. Often they have a back story that makes them have little patience for homeless drug addicts. If you’ve been brought up by a character like that, it can be galling to hear people have sympathy for the type of person who made you childhood a chaotic hell!

I know of this person. There’s a real lack of specialist services to help those with addiction / mental health issues/ homelessness- often these services aren’t joined up and people are bounced between them, that’s if they are picked up by services in the first place. There are so many barriers in place which prevent engagement, and a lack of joined up care and communication between agencies including the NHS and third sector. What services there are have been on their knees due to chronic underfunding. There really isn’t ’a lot of help available’ according to some on this thread, I have to wonder how engaged with reality these people are.

I worked as a psychologist in addiction services for several years.

Dean's picture is here : A genuinely lovely person.

This. ☝️

Giving money gives people a warm feeling, but they don't think of their ''drops'' {donations} as driving on the person's addiction.

A lovely young lad, extremely sweet appeared on the streets near us back in the 1990's

He was flagged up to agencies, but he soon became addicted, and the agencies really tried so hard to prevent this.

He had so much money donated to him.

Dean-Telfer-Bristol-iZettle
Dean Telfer was one of the first vendors to receive the device in Bristol
The £4,000 raised in Dean’s memory is an indication of how well-loved he was in Bristol.
The much-loved 39-year-old vendor died last Christmas and inspired an outpouring of emotion from customers who raised funds for Dean’s funeral as well as for charity StreetVet in his memory.
James Wilkinson, Sales and Outreach Worker for The Big Issue in Bristol, said: “Dean was always a kind and gentle personality in the office and on his pitch and was a real staple of his community.”

You sound like my Mother who on hearing that we had dropped some donations off at our local Street kitchen asked how we knew "which ones were genuine"
I replied that we made them all fill in an extensive application form before we handed over some bottles of water and packets of cereal bars

That must be so heartbreaking and it doesn't sound like there's any way out but the inevitable. Horrible for him - even worse for his family to watch knowing that there's literally nothing that they can do to help him.

I donate to charities like Crisis and Shelter, buy the Big Issue and sometimes by a hot drink or food for individual homeless people, but for the reasons already mentioned plenty of times I don't give cash.
I spent some time in India with work years ago and found it really difficult as there were so many people on the streets begging, including children and it is human nature to want to help, but there are just so many it's an overwhelming issue. I thought it was really harsh at first but on the day I arrived the colleague who was looking after me told me to put my sunglasses on, don't make eye contact with anyone begging and if I wanted to help to donate to a reputable charity instead. Her rationale was that there were lots of scammers and chances are you're lining an abuser's pocket rather than genuinely helping a child, and even if someone is genuine more good is done by the organisations trying to bring about real change than by the same amount of money given to individuals. It did make sense and I chose to donate to a well known charitably run hospital in the area instead. I've kept the same basic attitude back at home.

Thank you.

These days he would have undoubtedly been diagnosed with ASD, ADHD and serious depression. The GP recommended him for urgent MH services - but like today - there was not much help around and after 15 months waiting for his "urgent appointment" he was too overwhelmed to function - he stopped going to work, couldn't pay rent and got evicted. Then he was in the vicious circle of no job = no housing. He started to self-medicate with alcohol.

From what we could piece together he was known to the Salvation Army soup kitchen - he lived in the larger parks in the summer and doorways/small parks in the winter. Which is why he died in Hanover Square.

Part of him tried to get his life together and start again. A few years after he went missing we got notification that he had sat some upper tier taxation exams - but got a D when he needed a C.

My ex husband and children's father is a rough sleeper. Marriage break up, drug addiction, poor mental health its a slippery slope. It's not even that he hasn't got family who care, his family love him very much but can't help him as he's so vile
I'm so sorry 😥@TickingKey46

People can become disconnected from normal society, they become too far gone and it can be almost impossible to help them, not that we have the resources anyway ☹️

Patronising, copycat twaddle with the 'check your privilege'.

If you want to give money to women in the rain then do it, you need nobody else's permission. You won't get applause from me though; by doing that you are keeping these women out in the rain. If nobody gave them money it wouldn't be worthwhile.

I prefer to give any money that I want to give to the charities that help - Shelter, Salvation Army and any local ones. You do as you like but disabuse yourself of the notion that you 'know best'. You don't.

DD used to see the one legged man by the Marble Arch Pret a Manger on a regular basis and would buy him something from Pret. I went with her a couple of times and took him some biscuits. We've not had cause to go that way for some years. I think about him sometimes, I hope he survived Covid

Correct.
It is massively complex.
Some people actually choose to live rough..it's hard for some to comprehend, but there is a strange freedom to it.

No bills, no responsibility, bloody cold in winter, but preferable to hostels, or having to deal with other people.

Perhaps I should have said 'marketing' . I and many other pp have literally given many examples where the conduct of street beggers has been less then truthful in order to get cash.

I wasn't being judgy. If your only source of income is begging (regardless of reason) then of course you will seek ways to increase that income. Whether that is to feed a habit, save enough to integrate back into society, pay off your gang leader or just to survive another night. I would likely do the same.

I don't treat any of them differently depending my assumptions. I smile, make eye contact, say no thanks/not today and crucially don't give them any money. I have bought hot drinks in cold weather, I have reported rough sleeping/tent in parks (it was within our departments remit to do so) so the rangers can check up on them.

I'm not really sure what you want me to do differently?

No, you are not a racist. Stating the obvious is not racist. Yes, their lives are rubbish. Yes, they are scammers. Yes, they are Roma and my heart breaks for them - having arrived in the UK 20+ years ago, they don't let their children complete their education, they marry off girls under age and they do not use a single opportunity a Western democracy offers. My heart bleeds for their children. There must be so many good teachers, doctors, lawyers, bus drivers, etc. lost because they don't let their children complete their school education and go to university. The fact that the authorities ignore it and say this is 'cultural' is discriminating the children from the Roma families. I actually think that Roma people have been the most abused and discriminated people in the whole history of the world, and that is including slave trade victims, Jews, etc. Yet we sacrifice their children on the altar of political correctness. Shame on us.