To be so disturbed by the male race currently

Of course there are good men.

But I think the fact that dozens of men in a very small area wanted to have sex with a drugged, unconscious woman offered up by her monster of a husband is what has made many of us reconsider just how many 'good' men there are and now many are a danger to women.

I have lots of nice men in my life who I love and respect. But that case, in a very ordinary town, shows just how many men in the general population are willing to at best not report a man seeking other men to rape his unconscious wife (nobody reported it) and at worst willing to actually go ahead and do that.

Can you see how cases like this indicate that the number of 'bad' men (men willing to hurt women, to be specific) is much higher than we like to think? And can you try to empathise with how that might effect the outlook of women?

This isn't snarky btw, I think that some men (and women) have dismissed this case as being an anomaly and therefore not indicative of wider social trends.

But what are the odds that in this one, unremarkable and run of the mill area of france, there are far far far more men who given the opportunity are rapists than there are in the general population? Slim, surely?

Depressing or not it’s the truth, and as such a much more realistic position from which to start a conversation on the topic. Start from the fundamental truth that yes actually when it comes down to it all men are indeed “obsessed” with sex. Then given this universal truth you can discuss how this is managed within the type of society we wish to live in. But you aren’t getting anywhere with endless posts like this where women are constantly surprised men are
”obsessed” with sex, and others then saying “not not all men are are like that” and around it goes. Yes actually all men are like that, the “good” ones are the ones who are actually able to exhibit some degree of self control and are intelligent enough to understand what is and isn’t socially and legally acceptable in the society within which they live.

and when we read about horrendous things happening to men it is almost always another man who has killed/stabbed/raped/assaulted the male victim. Not all men, but almost always a man and often until they get caught doing something terrible that we know how dangerous they are.

The biggest parallel between the two cases is the entitlement of the men. They felt they could take their pleasure knowing that the other person wasn’t enjoying it or even conscious in the case of Giselle. What does this say about the way we are raising men and boys? Something is badly wrong IMO.

Is there something in the wiring of men that cause them to repeat what happened to them?

if we protect children better, it protects future children.

I am so sorry. What utter arseholes.

like gisele, i think this is the most disturbing part. That other people knew
and did nothing

@Mummadeze I had to read that so quickly, it was too horrific to read and absorb fully. That is so terrible - what awful men. I'm so sorry. I agree with you - the internet's provided a way of these bastards getting in touch with each other, but they were always amongst us.

Yes, the whole concept, and the men involved are grim. Those men were motivated by the sexual pleasure they would derive from the act.

@Mummadeze I'm so sorry that happened to you

It's depressing beyond words that with the context of this thread the NAMALT brigade are out in full force

Over 30 years I was raped by several men at a party whilst I was semi-conscious. I will never be sure how many men slept with me but I know there were at least 4, plus a room full of people (all male) watching and encouraging. I came to and managed to get away but actually what hurt me the most was when I saw young men who I thought were my friends and who I previously thought were really nice in the jeering crowd. I just couldn’t believe none of them tried to stop what was happening or at the very least removed themselves from the room. Even after I came to terms with what happened, it made me very cynical and really made me feel like it is all men deep down. As I say, this was a long time ago and nothing to do with the internet, just horrible human nature.

@ImJustFineTYVM ,

And you can be a female nurse and a serial killer! But most aren’t.

If you look for bad men, you can find plenty but, as I said, that is confirmation bias. People don’t find hard working moral men much of a story.

I don’t think men are getting any worse either. It is curated media that makes people despair. If you are interested in stories on bad men, your social media will keep serving them up to you.

It is the same reason that reading the Daily Mail will lead you to think your Labour Party are a bunch of corrupt incompetents.

Blimey - if you think that’s highly pleasurable you need to set the bar higher. It’s grim and the men that participated are grim.

I'm willing to bet my life there will never ever be a case involving females to compare to what happened to GP.

Other than the fact that people don’t agree with her choices, there is nothing indicating that Lily Philips is mentally ill. I bet if a man was wanting to do a challenge of having sex with as many women as he could in a day, nobody would label him mentally ill or a victim.

It was the maximum sentence in France for the crime.

He will more than likely die in jail but that is due to his age, imagine if he was younger, 20 years is nothing, if he was in his 40's he'd be coming out in his 60's and have a fair few years ahead of him. His crimes are horrific and he should have been given much longer but I do not know what the sentencing guidelines are in France

There was a male nurse and at least one fireman in the Pelicot case. You can be a coastguard AND be an abuser.

The fireman used the fact he had saved dozens of lives as defence for his crime. That's just BS.

This would indeed be the behaviour of most man - and in fact has been throughout history across all cultures - without any societal constraints (ie your ‘moral compass’) which are pretty much the only thing making them think twice.

This is such a depressing view and smacks of Andrew Tate et al.

Foul what they’ll do with permission or if they think there will be no consequences

This. And I think it has always been like this, we just weren't as aware of it before.

I'm so glad people are starting to talk about how awful men can be. And I know it's not all men, and I know there are some very depraved women out there too.

But hey, look at what has been elected President in the US, and look at Boris Johnson's record with women.. Blatant and utter disrespect of women and they still get to the top jobs.

I dont understand why people are saying that Lily Philips is raking it in so it's not a problem, the whole reason that she is making lots of money is because so many men are pretty disgusting when it comes to their sexual habits. Men being willing to pay to get their kicks has created the sex industry, and by default her career, but I suppose it's better than the alternative, men just taking what they want by force.

Men aren’t a race.

If you look for bad examples of men, you won’t struggle to find them, but it is just confirmation bias.

Would you feel the same about those who rescued the Thai boys stranded in a cave for no material reward? Or the coastguard who are 88% male?

I find your way of thinking very bizarre and indeed very troubling . The implication that this is normal behaviour for most men is surely a travesty of the moral compass that is usual

I had to meet an inmate once, when I was working as a Special. He was lovely. Really handsome, very polite, if you met him in the pub you'd see absolutely no red flags at all. If I was single, I would have gone on a date with him. Except I knew why he was inside - he had kidnapped a nurse and kept her in his car boot for 9 days, She was almost dead when she was found. He could not have been nicer. It's worrying how it's not obvious at all sometimes who the monsters are.