DO NOT give your kid a smartphone this Christmas

Smartphones are inherently bad. The apps which form 90% of our use are designed to capture our attention for as long as possible and to manipulate our brain processes and emotional responses so that we use check them constantly. For adults they may now have the status of a necessary evil, but for children they are just evil. And that’s before getting into how they disrupt sleep, distract from development of hobbies and interests, etc etc

My dd12 is also learning Japanese on Duolingo 300+ day streak

There used to be bus timetables in bus shelters there not round here any more - they expect you to use the app. They only take exact cash - which if you don't know fare can be a pain - and cheaper ticket are frequently available only on app.

I personally prefer a train ticket - but you can get phone tickets and the barrier at station near us is quicker than ticket ones.

My Mum used to be able to pay for parking with notes and coins - or at least card now many of the car parks near her local town are app only.

More and more is pushed onto phones - and people harking back to how it used to be - look a bit out of of touch.

Not only is the genie is out of the bottle now in terms of 'fun' stuff you can do with phones, it's almost impossible to function without a smart phone now. I'm afraid that this is something that just has to be managed.

DS is now 25 so we didn't have the same pressures when he was younger. He didn't get a mobile until he was 13 and only then because he had to have it for school. We got him the Nokia 3210, which he used for a couple of years until DH gave him his old work Samsung. When things got out of control we had to switch off the wifi a few times (no mobile signal) and now he manages very well, and consciously limits his screen time.

It's an effort to monitor this stuff, to install what parental controls you can and keep an eye on what's happening but this needs to be done.

Actually the best lesson is to watch your own screen times and set a good example!

Apple Watch as an alternative?

My kids have had smart phones since y4. It means they can go and about, catch bus, check timetables for public transport, stay in touch with family who live hundreds of miles away. It gives them freedom and keeps them safe.

Children managed to do all those things before smartphones.

Well I have for DS - 17 as he getting his Dad old one which is an upgrade on his current one which he'd had for years. So he can head off to uni with a better one which will hopefully see him through Uni and then he can get his own phone.

I agree. It's the latest thing to virtue signal on.

And what has made me laugh hardest about this with discussions with other parents is the lack of understanding over the difference between social media (and it's various forms) and smart phones.

The parents saying 'my child isn't going to have a smartphone' are also the ones that give their kids unsupervised access to YouTube and have done for several years (they are now 9 or 10). And they are the ones with Roblox accounts on their own tablets. And they are playing age inappropriate computer games.

The kids themselves are the ones most obsessed with being cool and having the right brands.

It boggles my mind.

They are utterly utterly clueless.

Knowing the parent they will crack within about two weeks of high school. And then not bother to parent or monitor anything.

And I think that's what it comes down to - not wanting to parent sufficiently.

But I’ve already wrapped it!

More and more is being pushed to phones - bus and train tickets and timetables here - thing my teens use to get out and about under their own steam.

I am not sure I'm quite so keen to have everything pushed to phones but that's the way it's all heading.

Ours got them when they started secondary - kids without did get isolated a bit - but ours got them with parental oversight that lessened as they aged.

There was a thread recently that we shouldn't leave home with smart phones in case they got nicked - I wonder what kind of lifestyle some on here are living - even my 75 year old Mum had to use a smart phone for GP related things and for parking apps in her local area.

Plus we've taught our kids about reliable sources and how to evaluate what they see on-line - and they'd know to be wary about Instagram reel being used as overwhelming evidence.

My son is 12 and in year 7 and has a Nokia 3210. We live in London and he's walked to school on his own since mid year 5. I'm fine not tracking him as I'd prefer him to communicate with me...however I might change my mind when he's going further away than 1 tube stop. I hope not though, genuinely not sure what tracking him will help or change. I defo felt worried the first time he walked home from the busy tube station across a big junction after the clock had changed and it was dark. He has an Oyster card (as Tfl website STILL down for 11-15 photocards) and a bank card, and so far he's fine using those. He did call from the tube station with his oyster having run out this week, but talked him through topping it up and he was fine. So far he's ok using sms to make plans to meet with friends and go to the park . Just trying to take it one step at a time. Most kids in his year have smartphones, but not all, so that helps. I think it will all feel very different in a few years.

I laughed out loud....thank you @Christmasgiraffe

It might not be the same as heroin, but you are still sending them the message that the important thing is to fit in and be like their peers, even if what their peers are doing is dangerous, harmful, or doesn't fit with the values they've been raised with.

I worked with a woman a few years back who had all sorts of opinions about tech, gaming etc., but said that she put all that aside to make sure her son had exactly what the other children had in order to make sure he wasn't socially excluded. This kid had all the personality of mashed potato and had learned that being determinedly average by every metric was the goal in life.

We all grew up with friends who had different rules to us. Do you not remember "But all my friends are allowed to stay up late/ watch insert inappropriate film/ go into town without a parent! It's not fair!" and your parent telling you, "I don't care what your friends are allowed to do, it's my job to make the rules for you," or something similar?

I disagree OP.
I feel there is a LOAD of virtue signaling over this.

Yep, because using Snapchat is indeed the same as using heroin.

By all means, let your child be outcast and laughed at. You’re kidding yourself if you think that any of their peers will give them an easy time on things like this.
@Kibble29

Parents need to try and influence their children more than their peers. (And the wide spread of drugs among the young is absolutely a result of peer influence).
Parents love their children unconditionally (usually) and don't mistreat their children because they have the wrong coat, bag, or no phone.
Teach your children you are always there for them, you accept them fully, and they will not let their peers' cruelty get to them.

And if many parents teach their children good values and respect I don't see why their smartphone owning, cool ones should be anti-social to the rest. (Or is the internet in their pocket going to teach them that?)

Quite!

It always astounds me that people think smartphone = being able to have full access to the internet. DD has a iPhone, she needs approval to download any apps, can’t be contacted by or contact anyone who isn’t in her contact list. I’m not sure those sort of safety features come from a “brick phone”. There is such a thing as children owning a smartphone with sensible parenting that works fine.

I think everything you say here shows a balanced attitude.

When I, a grown adult by this time in my mid 40s, told my line manager in work that I don’t bring my phone to work - this was circa 2018 - , she said WHY???!!!! in the most incredulous voice as though I’d said the most preposterous thing ever !

😂

😂

Smart phones since age 8. Smh.

No thanks.

My kids have had smart phones since y4. It means they can go and about, catch bus, check timetables for public transport, stay in touch with family who live hundreds of miles away. It gives them freedom and keeps them safe.

My son needs his to see his school homework and timetable, and often to submit school homework.

Such as? What are the new stressors that have appeared in the last 10-15 years?

My kids are 4 and 2, I’ve worked in schools for nearly 20 years and I see the damage a smartphone does- they have never even been on a iPad yet, and they won’t for a long time. However, I think we need to be realistic. Once they’re teens, they will want a smartphone- and tbh I’ll probably let them have one for reasons mentioned above: mainly monitoring/ tracking where they are.
however I totally agree, under the age of say secondary school age- do kids need a screen? Absolutely not.

🎶🎵🎶 There’ll be no smartphone this Christmas

For me to hold …” 🎵🎶🎵

This was Mud’s rather disappointing follow up single to their 1974 Xmas no.1 ..