Ageism,ignorance, intolerance. class bias on mumsnet re Waspi women

Just to be clear the McCloud judgement (which you are referring to) wasn't about the increase to the pension age for public sector pensions. The court ruled that protecting those closest to retirement (which incidentally the FBU campaigned hard for) was a form of age discrimination against younger people. Which of course it is, but the Gov argued (but ultimately lost) that there was a reasonable argument for doing so.

If the Gov had just applied the 2015 pension reform across the board with no differential and no protection for those closest to retirement then the challenge would likely have failed as there was no discrimination against any group of workers.

As an older MNetter, the attitudes I read on here nowadays sadden me greatly. My DC are 29 and 26 now.

If one were to turn back the clock to the early noughties and MNet's first 20,000 members, I wonder if their daughters would share the views so often given here nowadays.

I understand that time moves on but the MNet community now is not representative of that early community on which MNet was founded.

There have been awful comments about older women on this post and the first post about WASPI women. I'm not WASPI (a bit too young) but I think that women should stick together rather than playing into the 'divide and rule' scenario.

I am not sure that I agree with the blanket compensation to all WASPI women as some probably don't need it. Perhaps trying to target and compensate the women who actually suffered directly due to poor communication by the government would be a better approach. However, the fact remains that the Ombudsman investigated this issue (over six years, I believe) and found that there was clear evidence of maladministration for which WASPI women should be compensated.

I don't buy the argument that there is no money to pay compensation, as money can be found for all sorts of other things by government when it wants to.

To me, this is a clear case of Labour backtracking on promises, and thinking that they can get away with it because, well, 'it's only older women so who cares?'.

It has similarities to them being able to impose zero tolerance on offenders in the recent riots (quite rightly) at who knows what cost but failing to do anything to stop the everyday tsunami of violence against women and girls on the grounds of lack of resources.

The younger women on MN who have been more than happy to put the boot into older women on this issue should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm nearly 70, and I feel the same!

Yes, I have a mortgage-free house, but I came damn near to losing my home when interest rates went through the roof despite doing 3 jobs and renting my spare room in order to pay that mortgage. My "gold plated public sector pension" is a princely £300 a month before tax, and thanks to the personal allowance being frozen, I pay tax on almost all of it.

And I voted Remain and would be more likely to pluck out my own eyeballs than vote Tory.

I am not sure I have seen much ageism, classism or misogyny on this issue on mumsnet. It is none of these things to think that no compensation should be paid and that the onus is on the individual to keep up with events.

People are talking about private pensions. Lots of pension schemes went bankrupt in the eighties and nineties or there were financial scandals and they collapsed. Lots of protection was introduced after that. Lots of people lost all their pension savings up until this point.

I think that paying a couple of thousand to every person in this category is too much. However, I think that this group of people could/should be marked for slightly enhanced pension credits. This should be easily done, as all the data will be held by HMRC and it will target those who face the worst consequences of the government’s lack of communication - they were found wanting in this area.

it will also mean that those who were not badly affected do not get money from taxpayers who may be worse off. It cannot be the case that benefits cannot ever be changed if they disadvantage some people. How it is done should be looked at carefully.

i will add that adults do need to take some responsibility, but so do governments and people who work for them.

I am with you OP. I wasn't always earning a "middle class" income, but pensions have always baffled me and any time I tried to figure it out I end up more confused than when I started. That's not the mention that the government keeps changing the rules and the age of retirement.

I sometimes wonder if there will ever be a retirement by the time I reach that ever receeding, magical age where I can stop working.

How can you prepare for something that it so confusing and unstable? I'd rather stick my head in the sand.

However, I don't think paying compensation willy nilly is the best solution. As a country we cannot afford it, so any help should be distributed where it's most needed.

Not having women disadvantaged in future is what I really hope for. But don't expect.

OP is absolutely right.
I had a low paid job, and was informed when the pension age was first raised to 62, but not of the subsequent changes to 65/66/67, although I did know about the two later rises through the media.
So I'd spent my working life expecting to receive my pension at 60, then 62.
I'm still working, albeit part-time at 70, and for the record I voted remain.

I do get sick of people, both in the press, social media and politicians with an axe to grind, blindly assuming that everyone over 60 is a raging xenophobe who voted leave.

You do seems to come up with some random “facts”.

England’s population is split pretty much 50/50 between north and south (depending on where you draw the line. And bear in mind that the “south” includes the south-east and other areas such as Cornwall. So it’s just not true that most people live in the south east.

And, even in the south-east, a “normal ex-Council House” won’t cost anything like £750k except in a few of the very wealthiest pockets. I live in one of the smarter commuter villages in the Home Counties and £750k gets you a pretty nice place, albeit perhaps without much “character”.

I’m not sure that only being able to accrue 35 years of final salary pension is quite the right flex to get Gen X, Millenials and Gen Z on side.

@khaitai that household of "over a million" is because a normal ex council house costs over £750k in the south east, where most people live. It has no bearing on actual income and probably includes very wealthy people and those with savings and pension pots.
A lot of pensioners are trapped in big houses, too frail to move, too poor to heat or maintain it. They need the house to pay for care. Head to the elderly parents board for some informative discussions.

I don't think that is the majority though. Many of that age group didn't go to uni, don't own a property and worked minimum wage jobs

It's obviously not the majority but there are lots of posters trying to claim that women aged 65 had a really bad hand and I'm saying it's not true for everyone. 1 in 4 people aged over 65 live in a household where total wealth is over a million. 3/4 of people over 65 own their own home mortgage free. Only 6% are in private rented accommodation.

This in shedloads

As an aside , with many of here saying,' that ' waspi ' women were in the never had it so good era , and as I wrote upthread , I am just out of that catagory , many commenters on here are talking about back then when these women were of the age of on here now . the mortgage rate late 70s/ early 80s was 17% ! , yes houses were cheaper but the average wage back then was around £100 -£109 a week for a man .

You didn't have to go to university to get a good job though.

Wrong post - but too much hatred of older women here.

I don't think that is the majority though. Many of that age group didn't go to uni, don't own a property and worked minimum wage jobs (Despite Mumsnet seeming to think they all bought a house for pennies).

I agree with the decision not to pay compensation given the many other priorities the government needs to meet.
I also feel that personally I was kept fully informed .
I do agree that the attitude to older women from some people on here and on other forums is both ageist and misogynistic.
There is a lot of stereotyping based on some peoples' experience of a few women who have not had to take much responsibility and lent on their husbands etc. These people are not representative of a whole generation.
We are a varied group of individuals and some women in this age group have had difficult lives.
Some also campaigned for a lot of the improved rights women have today.
There is a real lack of respect.
Karens, old biddies and Hyacinth Buckets.

You are okay then 🤣

I’d rather see the 4.3 million children living in poverty get the money personally.

I didn't get any of that but I don't need or want to be compensated.

I'd prefer my dm, 89, who gets £12k a year net to be given back her winter fuel allowance.
The way that was cut is disgraceful.

Lots of people, across age ranges, have been dealt a bad hand financially and that's wrong. But individual stories don't apply to a whole generation. There are plenty of women of the WASPI generation who did very well.

My mum is a WASPI woman. She had free university education, including a full maintenance grant, up to masters. She had a civil service job where she couldn't be sacked or made redundant. She had maternity pay and a final salary pension and retired at 55. She bought a house in London in the 80s and now, mortgage free, her biggest financial decisions are whether to get a new Mercedes or a Tesla. All of her friends are the same. Do I think they should be compensated for their hardship? Give me a break.

@TheFancyDuck Oh tell me more about these "hare-brained green schemes " please. Are they the ones that give us clean air, or clean water, or stop degrading our soils, or provide warmer homes or protect us from flooding or give us a cleaner, more reliable means of generating electricity than relying on oil from Russia and the Middle East?