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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the NHS is hindering my recovery?

37 replies

Postpartumproblemo · 18/12/2024 19:24

I saw a therapist through the NHS last year, I had two referrals. On the first I was diagnosed with OCD (after years of anxiety/depression and seeing loads of private therapists through work and never understanding what is wrong with me) and I opened up to my therapist, Jane. After I was discharged I realised I wasn’t coping with the tools I was given and felt I may have been discharged too early, I referred myself again and they agreed I needed to be seen again and that it made sense to see Jane since she began my therapy. I had to wait 9 months and saw her and it was life changing - we tried a different approach which worked and it truly made me a better, happier person able to cope with the world.

I wanted to continue once I was discharged and knew Jane worked privately. I knew I was “well” but felt regular therapy would be beneficial in managing the OCD. Perhaps I am too Americanised through TV, but people seem to have regular therapy. NHS said no and that Jane would be depriving the NHS of a client if she did, so that was that.

I since had a baby and a hugely traumatic experience where I lost control (I almost died as did baby) and it has majorly triggered my OCD. I emailed Jane via her private clinic to ask if I could see her again. However, NHS says no because I’m their client, but NHS also says I’m not allowed to see Jane again as we will be “too close”.

Is this not ridiculous? I now won’t seek any therapy. It took so much of me to explain my trauma to Jane, to go through my life history which is very complicated and takes a lot of time. Jane remembers all family members, events, I don’t need to go through my past to get to the point. Yet I’m not allowed to ever see her again? If she quit the NHS then yes I’d be able to but I know she values working for them and is high up now.

I feel majorly let down by the service and at a loss. I’d understand if Jane thought I was becoming dependent but she even has documented that I am not and the difficult history is the reason she is best suited, but the NHS response is that there are no allowances and I should re-refer and see someone else, but there is a year waiting list.

Is this not stupid?

OP posts:
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Postpartumproblemo · 22/12/2024 20:14

Lemonbreath · 20/12/2024 12:38

I think this is the crux of the matter, you knew this was the agreement from the outset and now you want to change the rules. This is the only reason I think it’s unreasonable expectation - I understand wishing the rules were different, but they have been transparent with you from day 1. They haven’t misled you and they are not stopping you from getting therapy. This is for everyone’s protection because dependency looks different for different people, and it’s very hard to spot dependency objectively. You don’t feel dependent and Jane is trying to be accommodating but she also knows the rules and tbh it doesn’t help she is getting your hopes up here knowing it’s in her contract too!

please don’t let this put you off seeking more help if you need it. I don’t think that’s good advice for anyone and DOES suggest a level of dependency on this therapist if you believe only she can help you, this is going down an unsafe road that can lead to more harm.

I actually didn’t know the rule from the offset. I found out at the end of my second set when she decided to start working privately and I asked to see her. The enquiries began and that’s when there was lots of back and forth. I do trust her to tell me if she thought I was too dependent or that she didn’t want to see me, I’d be fine with that. I’d accept it.
I think I will seek some sort of help, I do feel my anxiety creeping up and my mood feeling off so I’ll try the perinatal team and go from there

OP posts:
Lemonbreath · 20/12/2024 12:38

Postpartumproblemo · 19/12/2024 08:16

I kind of see the NHS perspective as I am allowed more appointments and qualify, the issue is they don’t usually allow you back to the same person after 2 admissions (which I’ve had) to prevent dependency (this is in the official handbook I was given on day 1). Jane is very high up and takes 4 patients a year in the NHS now so it would be a long wait even if I was able to see her.

Jane did say that if she felt I was dependent and didn’t want to see me anymore then she would have communicated it by email / with an excuse. Instead she set up a therapy hour long call to ask what is happening, how things are going and went back through the official guidelines, she did say she would speak with her manager to see if there’s a chance I’d be able to go privately since time has passed. We’re the same age and I feel like we got on well. I like her and I am not dependent and am fully self aware so I am certain she isn’t trying to fob me off - I’ve seen the evidence of the policies. I am just so annoyed by it.

I think this is the crux of the matter, you knew this was the agreement from the outset and now you want to change the rules. This is the only reason I think it’s unreasonable expectation - I understand wishing the rules were different, but they have been transparent with you from day 1. They haven’t misled you and they are not stopping you from getting therapy. This is for everyone’s protection because dependency looks different for different people, and it’s very hard to spot dependency objectively. You don’t feel dependent and Jane is trying to be accommodating but she also knows the rules and tbh it doesn’t help she is getting your hopes up here knowing it’s in her contract too!

please don’t let this put you off seeking more help if you need it. I don’t think that’s good advice for anyone and DOES suggest a level of dependency on this therapist if you believe only she can help you, this is going down an unsafe road that can lead to more harm.

Postpartumproblemo · 20/12/2024 12:37

Alina3 · 19/12/2024 10:23

People saying how can the NHS dictate what OP does privately are missing the point, they have no ability or interest in dictating what patients go and do privately, but they can stipulate that their employee, Jane, doesn't transfer NHS patients to private. This is to protect patients. And it's not like working in a pizza shop where they can't tell you not to work in a supermarket on your days off. Therapists have codes of conducts they have to adhere to and need to be transparent about their care of an individual and their plans for further care.

It's a conflict of interest, because there is now a financial incentive for the NHS therapist to try and keep therapy going, not conclude treatment appropriate, to transition a client to private work, to promote dependency. It can get very messy very quickly.

OP not realising why this is and declaring they won't ever try therapy again if it isn't with Jane is kind of a sad example of why these rules need to be put in place. If OP has this sort of dependency on Jane, Jane could easily influence OP to pay for sessions indefinitely, forever, even if there is no good clinical rationale. Therapy isn't quite the same as seeing an orthopaedic consultant privately to get your hip replaced faster. The nature of your relationship is different, easier to use in a manipulative way, harder to quantify, harder to measure outcomes.

I completely understand this. The reason that I don’t think I’m “dependent” on Jane is that my reasons are I’ve seen 10 therapists probably. Some I just didn’t like and so stopped seeing (this was mainly as a teen) and the rest through work programs (EAP) who I thought seemed great but I never got anywhere or improved. Jane understood me off the bat and changed my life for the positive. I enacted her strategies and I am in a better place. The issue is I need a few sessions to talk through the birth (we were doing EMDR before and I am struggling to process that trauma). Then I’d be on my merry way, I just don’t have the energy to waste money and time, get childcare etc to see therapists like my previous who were great on paper but just not for me.

OP posts:
Postpartumproblemo · 20/12/2024 12:33

lifebyfaith · 19/12/2024 11:18

It is nearly always the case that once you've seen a therapist through an agency or organisation, in this case the NHS, you can't see them privately. I think it's to protect both parties and prevent dependency. However, in some cases you can see the same person after six months of no contact. I saw a therapist through an agency once - publicly funded - but she left to focus on her private work. She told me that she would happily see me once six months were up. As it happened I decided not to return.

It might be worth seeing if Jane would agree to private therapy after six months.

I’ve not seen Jane for more than 18m I think now. It doesn’t matter apparently as I still qualify for the therapy on nhs and would be seen urgently due to perinatal

OP posts:
Postpartumproblemo · 20/12/2024 12:28

JennyWren83 · 19/12/2024 09:07

We would also not allow nhs patients to then be seen privately. It could be seen as promoting private business through your nhs role and a breach of care standards/conflict of interest.

Find someone new. You may find a fresh new perspective.

Yes this is the rule and it makes sense. It’s just really upset me. I would spend thousands in sessions getting to the point where my past is understood to move on with therapy for the current issues!

OP posts:
kittybiscuits · 20/12/2024 00:09

Catza · 19/12/2024 08:26

But she won't be. Jane has a contract with the NHS for a specific number of hours/episodes of care. If the OP sees her privately, that has nothing to do with her NHS work. She will still have to deliver the same care hours to the NHS and her appointment with OP will be in her private practice time.

This is a conflict of interest and not as clearcut as you state. Different NHS Trusts and different departments have varying policies around this. For some it's a never situation and for some it's allowable after a period of time has elapsed.

lifebyfaith · 19/12/2024 11:18

It is nearly always the case that once you've seen a therapist through an agency or organisation, in this case the NHS, you can't see them privately. I think it's to protect both parties and prevent dependency. However, in some cases you can see the same person after six months of no contact. I saw a therapist through an agency once - publicly funded - but she left to focus on her private work. She told me that she would happily see me once six months were up. As it happened I decided not to return.

It might be worth seeing if Jane would agree to private therapy after six months.

Goldfsh · 19/12/2024 10:41

Having worked in the NHS I do find it odd that a 'letter' from Jane's boss is involved or that this was shown to you: did you give permission for your details to be passed on to her boss? Or was it a generic email saying she's not allowed to see ex-clients?

Either way, there is never 'the one' therapist. I've have several and YES it is a pain to explain your history again, but how you do this tells the therapist a great deal about what is unresolved, and it is helpful to unpack a background. Your reluctance to seek help elsewhere is not particularly... healthy? And maybe does suggest a dependence on Jane that isn't helpful in the long run.

Alina3 · 19/12/2024 10:23

People saying how can the NHS dictate what OP does privately are missing the point, they have no ability or interest in dictating what patients go and do privately, but they can stipulate that their employee, Jane, doesn't transfer NHS patients to private. This is to protect patients. And it's not like working in a pizza shop where they can't tell you not to work in a supermarket on your days off. Therapists have codes of conducts they have to adhere to and need to be transparent about their care of an individual and their plans for further care.

It's a conflict of interest, because there is now a financial incentive for the NHS therapist to try and keep therapy going, not conclude treatment appropriate, to transition a client to private work, to promote dependency. It can get very messy very quickly.

OP not realising why this is and declaring they won't ever try therapy again if it isn't with Jane is kind of a sad example of why these rules need to be put in place. If OP has this sort of dependency on Jane, Jane could easily influence OP to pay for sessions indefinitely, forever, even if there is no good clinical rationale. Therapy isn't quite the same as seeing an orthopaedic consultant privately to get your hip replaced faster. The nature of your relationship is different, easier to use in a manipulative way, harder to quantify, harder to measure outcomes.

SquigglePigs · 19/12/2024 10:16

It's frustrating. I had a friend who yje NHS gave 10 sessions of therapy to. He was making good progress but felt he needed a few more sessions and the NHS said no - 10 only and if you want to go private you need to find a new therapist. Standard policy in their area and no exceptions. It was really annoying.

JusteanBiscuits · 19/12/2024 09:23

Jane won't be able to see clients she see's on the NHS privately. It's not you per se, but no therapist would be allowed to transfer NHS patients to be private. This is common in all therapy services.

nomoretreats · 19/12/2024 09:16

Might have missed it but how did the nhs even know you were seeing Jane as a private patient? Were you trying to get it paid for by the nhs?

snowyglobe · 19/12/2024 09:12

If you can afford private therapy then it really is worth trying to find another therapist who you can see for as long as you need.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 19/12/2024 09:09

buttonousmaximous · 19/12/2024 08:58

If Jane's private therapy is not funded by the NHS I don't see how they can dictate who she sees?

They can put it in her contract which the therapist has to agree.

LivingLaVidaBabyShower · 19/12/2024 09:09

Londonrach1 · 19/12/2024 08:31

Sounds like Jane doesn't want you as a client. I seen private patients and NHS patients. I can tell the NHS patients where I am but if they find me of their free will that's their choice....I just used to inform my boss.

This was my thought.

I have seen multiple types of drs on the nhs and then seen them privately both via nhs then private and privately then on nhs.

Its an odd policy to refuse a private patient

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 19/12/2024 09:08

Londonrach1 · 19/12/2024 08:31

Sounds like Jane doesn't want you as a client. I seen private patients and NHS patients. I can tell the NHS patients where I am but if they find me of their free will that's their choice....I just used to inform my boss.

Jane has said she’s not allowed to continue and shown a letter from her boss. I believe her. Upsetting for OP to have it suggested that her trusted therapist is lying.

JennyWren83 · 19/12/2024 09:07

We would also not allow nhs patients to then be seen privately. It could be seen as promoting private business through your nhs role and a breach of care standards/conflict of interest.

Find someone new. You may find a fresh new perspective.

JennyWren83 · 19/12/2024 09:05

I've declined clients as a manager on behalf of my team before, where I think the relationship is draining the staff member or too close to maintain professional boundaries. Sometimes when the staff member wants me to, and sometimes myself as a decision for their well-being.

OrwellianTimes · 19/12/2024 09:01

This is the first I’ve heard that the NHS is short of mental health patients.

I had no problems switching from seeing my therapist on the NHS to private. I don’t see how the NHS can have any say in what a private patient does.

buttonousmaximous · 19/12/2024 08:58

If Jane's private therapy is not funded by the NHS I don't see how they can dictate who she sees?

newbeggins · 19/12/2024 08:37

Use the summaries from Jane to find a new private therapist. There are other good ones like her out there. Jane is not the "cure" - your progress is down to you taking responsibility and engaging a programme of treatment that any good psychologist can provide. You can bring forward the work you have already done with a new person.

Londonrach1 · 19/12/2024 08:31

Sounds like Jane doesn't want you as a client. I seen private patients and NHS patients. I can tell the NHS patients where I am but if they find me of their free will that's their choice....I just used to inform my boss.

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 19/12/2024 08:30

foghead · 19/12/2024 08:28

@SoNiceToComeHomeTo
The nhs limits the number of sessions it offers so how can they say no, you can't carry on in a private capacity with the same therapist?
It seems way too controlling.

Not unusual though. I had the same working for an EAP. They don't want therapists using the service to get private clients.

Alina3 · 19/12/2024 08:29

Gently, YABU

The reason you can't arrange to see Jane privately after seeing her in her NHS clinic is that the rule is in place to protect vulnerable people from exploitation. Otherwise it would open the door to NHS therapists influencing their clients to carry on but pay privately. People who might not really be able to afford it might become dependent on that specific therapist and feel they 'need' to keep seeing them. It might affect the work done under the NHS, because instead of delivering treatment with an end date, the patient and therapist might presume that this end date (which is set for a good reason: to preserve resources, to adhere to an evidence based protocol with a set dose, to ensure dependency isn't promoted: the NHS is very much 'let's get you to a place where you can manage your own mental health' unless you have a severe mental illness like schizophrenia, psychosis etc.).

Jane won't go against what her employer says and put her job at risk to see you privately. Depending on her modality she will have her own code of ethics, however even if it doesn't explicitly state that NHS therapists can't see patients privately after their NHS treatment ends, she may well feel herself it's inappropriate, have discussed it in supervision, and have recognised it's a conflict of interests and not in your best interest.

It may be possible for them to make an exception to 'only two treatments with one therapist' and for Jane to accept you back for treatment under the NHS for this new presenting problem, you can always try, but in general I would say gently that it's lovely you've had such a positive experience with Jane, but I wouldn't discount that you will likely find another therapist who is equally as good, who may have different fresh perspectives, who can help you just as Jane did. After all a therapist can only do so much, it's what the client does with that support and info that makes the difference. And if you benefited form Jane's support before, that is because you did the work. So I would say telling yourself you won't ever try therapy again because it isn't with Jane is a bit unfortunate and a potential sign of that dependency that therapists try to avoid promoting.

foghead · 19/12/2024 08:28

@SoNiceToComeHomeTo
The nhs limits the number of sessions it offers so how can they say no, you can't carry on in a private capacity with the same therapist?
It seems way too controlling.