So what exactly is the point of it all then?

It’s a theory, not a fact. No one really knows. Yet.

If nature didn't want birds to have nests, it wouldn't have given them the ability to make them.

If nature didn't want IVF or for premature babies to survive, it wouldn't have given humans the intellect to make such things possible.

In principle I agree with your underlying point but nature doesn't want anything. If humans got better with the idea that what is, is, we would all be a lot happier.

Parents create life so you'd have to ask them what they think the point is. They're basically bored and want to kill a couple decades of their own life and/or fill a void would be my guess and unfortunately nature gave them that power. Then their offspring get to the same age and do the same thing, ad nauseum.

If nature didn't want birds to have nests, it wouldn't have given them the ability to make them.

If nature didn't want IVF or for premature babies to survive, it wouldn't have given humans the intellect to make such things possible.

All cat lovers will obviously surely agree with you. Absolutely, of course this is fine, but I think there is always a bit more to life than this, at least for me, anyway 😅🙃

To feed domesticated cats.

That is all.

You make god sound like a reluctant husband who says he'll put a shelf up in the bathroom but just hasn't got round to it yet. But instead of the outcome being nowhere to put the cotton buds, your god's reluctance to act just yet means unimaginable human suffering, calamity, disasters, disease and war.

It's no wonder so many people have decided to LTB.

Well, you obviously don't.

Or perhaps evolution explains the benefits of altruism, as most famously outlined in The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins.

@Wellingtonspie how do you explain the fact that most people who have IVF have healthy children, and a lot of those who conceive naturally do not?

Or it might have been that her husband was incompatible with her eggs…..

We aren't alive. We are computer generated programmes who think life is real.

Shame on me for pointing out a biological fact? If you cannot reproduce naturally that is natures way is pretty simple.

You didn't say that, though - you said

Infertility as harsh as it sounds is nature weeding out those who should not reproduce, this can also be evidenced partly in the huge increase in sen since things like IVF and being able to keep 24weekers alive.
...
Yes I get the argument but broken bones, but antibiotics, but they just keep someone alive they don’t create people that nature never wanted to exist.

Are you seriously saying that it's a biological fact that nature has its own will and that it actually wants things and makes moral judgements about who should and shouldn't reproduce?

That description of what nature is and how it works about as far from biological fact as I've ever read.

It sounds more like the way someone might describe a deity, but it doesn't sound like science at all.

A whole thread about me? I highly doubt it.

YANBU. We're life. We will procreate, we will die. Not much more. Just a blip in time. Irrelevant really. Enjoy it while it lasts

Like the Hamlet thing: "there's nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so".

I don't think that hedonism and caring about others are necessarily mutually exclusive - I think many moral relativists who don't believe in a divine creator enjoy being kind to others, so that can be their version of hedonism.

There are lots of kind people who don't believe in a divine creator and who can justify their actions without referring to God. Also, even if they were being totally selfish, it's good for social cohesion and one's own emotional wellbeing to be kind to others, so it's an evolutionary survival strategy if nothing else.

I don't personally think there are adequate logical arguments for the existence of a creator, because that's not really how faith works. The notion that one's inner thoughts are proof that there are outer thoughts (i.e. from a creator) is only convincing to people who already believe there are outer thoughts. I get how people with faith get there, but it can feel like a bit of a leap to non-believers.

Shame on me for pointing out a biological fact? If you cannot reproduce naturally that is natures way is pretty simple.

Same as animals that go extinct because they refuse to breed. Dogs that cannot breed and give birth naturally because their bodies are these days so mis figured they cannot safely.

From a purely scientific way if you cannot breed and give birth that is natures ways of stopping your genes. Nature or biology gives no fucks to your feelings or mine it cares about survival the same as viruses.

A successful virus or disease does not kill all its hosts. It kills enough but keeps enough to spread. If not killed too fast it would die out due to lack of hosts. Fertility is the same be it animal or human it wants the best to survive the faults live but not enough to end the species otherwise it all dies and fails anyway.

The HIV virus as horrific as it is, is a bloody magnificent virus to view from a scientific point of view the way it takes over an evolves.