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So what exactly is the point of it all then?

163 replies

Thinkingthesethoughts · 18/12/2024 15:41

Life? What are we here for?

I’m not depressed, just having a midweek musing while ill at home on the sofa.
If it’s just to reproduce and pass our genes on, how does that explain infertility?
Unless we have occupations that make a huge difference in people’s lives, or change the course of history somehow, how are we making any difference?

Why do you feel we’re here?

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Catza · 19/12/2024 20:25

SirBlaBlaIngton · 19/12/2024 07:52

This education for the soul, how do we avoid becoming bitter with life's education knocks, bumps and unfair experiences?? Genuine question, if anyone has an answer.

A first step is to acknowledge that there is no such thing as "fair" or "unfair". There is no score card and every experience just "is". It's up to you what you do with it.
I've recently experienced a relationship breakdown. I am grieving but in that grief I am also recognising what worked, what hasn't. I am learning the lessons to take into my new relationships as well as learning things about myself. Every day I am realising something new about the world and my place in it and learning new skills.
I had a lot of trauma in my childhood but it taught me to recognise what good relationship looks like. It taught me how to be safe and it taught me when is the time to give up on something that isn't working. Do I wish the "lesson" didn't happen? Sometimes. But then I would not have been the same person I am today and I would not have experienced the power of post-traumatic growth.
Life is an incredible gift, you just need to remember it. Everything that happens can be both negative and positive and it is entirely up to you to decide which way it's going to go. I really hate the idea of a bearded guy in the sky making decisions for me and scoring me on good and bad deeds. No. I am in full control of myself, my thoughts, my habits, my actions and my destiny.

LonginesPrime · 19/12/2024 14:47

Bad is a religious word.

Um, what? If you're religious, you might see it as a religious word, but it's no more a religious word than knees are Christian because Christians have knees.

If we're just here because we're here, there is no meaning at all. That is to say something might be meaningful to you, but it's not absolutely meaningful. Same with morals.

What's wrong with that? Why can't humans create different meanings? Does this extend to, say, interpretation of art or literature in your mind?

Do you accept that people interpret the same bible passage differently? What is the point of bible study if there's no room for different meanings? Why do we all need to have the same interpretation?

Not having any absolute meaning doesn't equate to having no meaning at all. There can still be meaning; it just isn't absolute.

So if someone finds meaning in causing hurt to others, that is no better or worse than finding meaning in being good to others. Meaning or morals as an an absolute, independent idea, just doesn't exist.

Unless of course there is a Creator.

So what you're saying is that people who believe in a divine creator believe that meaning and morals are absolute, and people who don't might have different moral values and might see things differently?

Is that just a description of how things are? It doesn't prove there's a creator unless you already believe in moral absolutism.

Thispupsgottofly · 19/12/2024 14:13

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I just don't agree with that at all

DayAfter · 19/12/2024 14:12

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TrippTover · 19/12/2024 13:57

It’s pointless (and really short). So just make the most of it and have a good time. I’ve made that the point for my life.

Life is a glint of light between two eternal darknesses

Thispupsgottofly · 19/12/2024 13:42

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This is absolute twoddle.
It is obviously bad to cause pain or suffering to another person.
Empathy is possible without a creator.
There is no ultimate point to life but that doesn't render it meaningless.

HamptonPlace · 19/12/2024 13:18

Copernicus321 · 18/12/2024 17:00

The more you look up into the heavens, the more you appreciate that there can't be a divine purpose to life or indeed a god. Why? Because our galaxy, the Milky Way has over 100 billion stars. In addition to these there are probably a further 200 to 500 billion planets orbiting these stars, that's just in our galaxy alone. From our galaxy, the Milky Way (a lovely example of a spiral galaxy by the way) we can see via the James Webb Space Telescope another possible 200 billion observable galaxies each of them containing their own stars and planets beyond measure. The concept that the Universe has been created by a monotheistic god and that this god has sent a theological scripture in the form of the Torah, Bible or Quran down to a single life form inhabiting a rather small water based planet orbiting a G-type main sequence yellow dwarf star (our Sun) positioned somewhere in the Orion arm of the Milky Way seems rather incongruous given the scale of the Universe.

However, the Universe in which you exist and you with it are amazing. When the Universe was created, the only elements that existed at the time was hydrogen (95%), helium (5%) and a trace element of lithium. As the gases gathered and formed into nebulae they in turn created the planets. Some became so large and dense that fusion started and these became stars. Through fusion consuming these first stars, all the heavier elements including oxygen and carbon were created. At first, these heavier elements were held tightly within the star that created them and only made available to the wider Universe when these first stars died and collapsed in on themselves with such a force that they exploded out again in a massive eruption called a supernova. After billions of supernovas, these heavier elements they had created during their lifetime were seeded across the Universe. These new elements in turn were collected into new nebulas and were included in the creation of subsequent generations of stars and planets. Every atom that makes you has previously existed and will continue to exist after your death. The fact that you are a life built from elements that didn't exist at the moment of the Big Bang means that you are the product of a star, you are built from star dust. When you die, you will go on to build something else.

In the meantime, just enjoy yourself. Countries, Governments, money, everything is just made up. Enjoy the moment. If you aren't having fun then go and do something that makes you happy.

Edited

Unbelievably succinctly (and beautifully) put!

HamptonPlace · 19/12/2024 13:12

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There's always going to be something/someone/some species at the apex... Just happens to be us, hence this discussion can happen. Yay us!

JingleB · 19/12/2024 12:04

There doesn’t need to be a reason or a purpose for life to have intrinsic value.

Life is rare in the universe. So much is empty, cold and barren.

Here we are, existing against all odds. It is enough that it’s happened - so try not fuck it up for others, appreciate being the beneficiary of random chance and be good to the planet wherever possible.

LonginesPrime · 19/12/2024 11:51

I didn’t claim human beings all act morally. That’s ridiculous. But generally speaking most of us know the difference between things which are objectively right and wrong and those who don’t are suffering some sort of disorder.

If that's the case, why doesn't everyone agree on what the law should be on every issue? Why are people with these 'disorders of thinking' running whole countries and governments?

Isn't it a tad closed-minded to assume that every person who doesn't agree with your moral stance has "some sort of disorder"?

PickledElectricity · 19/12/2024 11:50

Sorry OP this thread reminded me of this comic.

So what exactly is the point of it all then?
LonginesPrime · 19/12/2024 11:45

We are (unlike the animals) uniquely created as image bearers of God. Something of Him is reflected in us.

How do you know that God isn't also talking to the animals and that animals aren't waiting for God to come back and sort all the bad stuff in the world out too?

The bible and similar religious texts were written down by humans, so how do you know what the animals are thinking or what God has or hasn't said to them?

Shetlands · 19/12/2024 11:02

AgileGreenSeal · 19/12/2024 10:49

Human beings innately understand when things aren’t right and aren’t fair. Any toddler’s outrage at some perceived injustice will confirm this.

I didn’t claim human beings all act morally. That’s ridiculous. But generally speaking most of us know the difference between things which are objectively right and wrong and those who don’t are suffering some sort of disorder.

My dogs know when something isn't fair and they'll express it eg when dishing out treats I have to give them both the same. Monkeys have shown they know when things aren't fair and display outrage too.

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AgileGreenSeal · 19/12/2024 10:49

ClareBlue · 19/12/2024 10:44

The evidence would show otherwise. None of my animals have ever tortured their young to death, for example, or destroyed their environment to consume above what they need. They operate in societies that well know right from wrong in how to function. It's an arrogant human perspective that thinks we gave some higher moral plane than animals. We don't.

Human beings innately understand when things aren’t right and aren’t fair. Any toddler’s outrage at some perceived injustice will confirm this.

I didn’t claim human beings all act morally. That’s ridiculous. But generally speaking most of us know the difference between things which are objectively right and wrong and those who don’t are suffering some sort of disorder.

ClareBlue · 19/12/2024 10:44

AgileGreenSeal · 18/12/2024 17:12

Yes, we are.

for example- we have the innate capacity to understand right and wrong, justice and injustice.

We are (unlike the animals) uniquely created as image bearers of God. Something of Him is reflected in us.

The evidence would show otherwise. None of my animals have ever tortured their young to death, for example, or destroyed their environment to consume above what they need. They operate in societies that well know right from wrong in how to function. It's an arrogant human perspective that thinks we gave some higher moral plane than animals. We don't.

Baileysandcream · 19/12/2024 10:34

SirBlaBlaIngton · 19/12/2024 07:52

This education for the soul, how do we avoid becoming bitter with life's education knocks, bumps and unfair experiences?? Genuine question, if anyone has an answer.

For me, it's by keeping a positive mindset and choosing to balance out the hard stuff and challenges by also acknowledging and celebrating all the good stuff.

Being intentional about finding joy in the little things, practising gratitude and planning things to look forward to - that give me hope and a sense of purpose.

Remembering that life's knocks and bumps are temporary - that when things might feel hard right now, it won't last and better times will happen. They might be temporary too and more knocks might come, but the cycle repeats itself and nothing is permanent.

I can't control some of the things that life throws at me, but I can control how I choose to respond. I can dwell on the fact that something is unfair and allow it to make me bitter - or I can choose to learn from it, let it go, move on and focus on the things I'm grateful for. I'm not suggesting it's easy and it takes time to process and heal from challenging situations, but it's always possible if you choose to think it so.

Lentilweaver · 19/12/2024 10:08

I don't find my life pointless at all, and mostly enjoy it. Though there are ups and downs. But there is always something in the world that interests me.

nindo · 19/12/2024 09:58

It’s all a bit pointless isn’t it. The worst thing about it is that we have invented drugs to keep people alive longer.

HamptonPlace · 19/12/2024 09:52

Thinkingthesethoughts · 18/12/2024 15:48

I find it hard to believe/understand that we’d just be here by chance and for no real reason

'sadly' that is, in fact, reality!

Shetlands · 19/12/2024 09:25

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No it isn't evidence of a creator. There's an evolutionary advantage to altruism - see that chapter in The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins. That book enabled me to understand that our existence doesn't depend on us having a creator.

5128gap · 19/12/2024 08:12

We are so interconnected that pretty much everyone will have had a small part to play in the big stuff. Even if by several degrees removed. Just existing means we alter the course of history. I don't mean that's WHY we're here, that's chance. I mean we all have an impact and if any of us didn't exist it would be different for everyone else.

SirBlaBlaIngton · 19/12/2024 07:52

Feelsomuchbetter · 18/12/2024 15:49

To have the experience of a human life and whatever that brings for each individual. I suppose like education for the soul. If you believe in that. I do.

This education for the soul, how do we avoid becoming bitter with life's education knocks, bumps and unfair experiences?? Genuine question, if anyone has an answer.

Catza · 19/12/2024 07:45

KimberleyClark · 18/12/2024 23:44

@Wellingtonspie how do you explain the fact that most people who have IVF have healthy children, and a lot of those who conceive naturally do not?

Science and selection. They look at cells under the microscope and grade them by quality. They then discard any cells below a certain grade.
Where science comes up against nature is preventing miscarriage which in a lot of cases is a process by which the body discards (sorry, there is no nice way of putting it) "suboptimal" genes. I have an example of that in my own family. One high risk pregnancy with hospitalisation in early stages to prevent miscarriage - child born with a progressive genetic condition and is quadriplegic by the age of 4. Another family member on bed rest for 4 months with multiple hospital admissions - child with learning disability. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.

GreyCarpet · 19/12/2024 07:30

Thinkingthesethoughts · 18/12/2024 15:48

I find it hard to believe/understand that we’d just be here by chance and for no real reason

The way I see it is that, unless you have a belief in a god, we are all here by a fluke of evolution.

If you follow a religion, I presume that will give people a reason for being here. Otherwise, there isn't a reason. We're here by chance and what we do with our lives is determined by our own personal values and belief systems.

Some people want to make a lot of money and acquire 'stuff' and that is their reason for being here.

Some people want to raise children well, to enjoy their company as adults and feel a sense of satisfaction at a job done well.

Some people want to create and contribute to the world and leave a legacy for others to enjoy and enjoy the sense of satisfaction that brings.

Some people want to help others and are less interested inaterial 'success'. Their meaning and satisfaction in life comes from knowing they have made the world a better place for others.

Some people want to theorise and understand and find pleasure in intellectual pursuits amd that brings meaning to life for them.

M0st people just want to live their lives 'well' (whatever that means to them) and feel a sense of personal satisfaction for them.

I don't believe we have any greater or higher reason for being here than to just do what we do and we will hopefully enjoy it along the way without causing (too much) harm to others.

Catza · 19/12/2024 07:21

toucheee · 19/12/2024 06:14

It’s a theory, not a fact. No one really knows. Yet.

Sure, but let's put it this way - there is more evidence of chance than there is of Ganesh. And I haven't personally been atop of Olympus mountain but I am fairly certain Zeus doesn't have a palace there.

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