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To not leave a tip on principle

219 replies

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 00:02

Had a pub meal with a group, main courses (burgers, curries etc) cost £20. An 'optional' service charge is listed on the bill.

£2 or £4 isn't going to break the bank. But I just don't want to support the system, on principle.

I don't want to cause group drama either. What should I do in this situation?

OP posts:
eightIsNewNine · 19/12/2024 22:14

Bobafett2020 · 19/12/2024 21:46

Working in an office isn't significantly harder than other minimum wage jobs. Since when is pay related to the 'hardness' of a job. Why do you have an inherent belief that waiting staff should earn minimum wage simply because other minimum wage jobs exist.

The hardness reflected in pay is typically hardness of hiring/training a person able to do the job.

I don't say that the waiting staff deserve exactly minimal wage, I just see tipping as rather undignified and weird way to pay people. It creates unhealthy dynamics (bending over backwards) and bullies people to pay more than the list price without any understanding what happens with the money next.
I believe they should earn normal wage as everyone else - contractual and taxed. If the prices go up, so be it, at least it will be clear what are real costs of running the business with competitive going rate compared to other jobs.

I just don't see why waiting staff should be any other case than other employees. It isn't like in the USA, where the waiting staff is singled out and has lower basic rate because the tips are effectively mandatory.

MellersSmellers · 19/12/2024 22:12

I always tip, but if you think about it, you don't feel a need to add a tip for a solicitor, or a dentist, or the postman do you. Why tip waiters when they are just doing their job? is it just in recognition of the fact that they are underpaid? I'd rather they just improved pay and increased the price of the food, so that us customers don't have to do that dance of "to tip or not....how much to tip..."

redalex261 · 19/12/2024 22:11

As far as I know most restaurants split tips across the team, including back of house. I always tip - can only think of two occasions where service was so poor I didn’t. Don’t add one if compulsory service charge - hate this! Agree it’s weird some industries have tipping culture and some don’t.

When it’s a group and one person doesn’t chip in I will put in extra and make a mental note.

If this is your personal bugbear that’s fine, but it’s not really fair to drag your friends into “making a stand”. One of them is sure to make up the difference, especially if it’s a built-in charge - they’ll view it as part of the bill. This will save you a couple of quid but cost your friends more, not lead to the venue missing out on your percentage of the service charge.

If you really want to make a stand go to the desk/bar (or ask for) and pay your bill separately. That way you can refuse to cover service charge and the rest of your group pay for their own service charge.

Sharkygirl · 19/12/2024 22:11

Tipping is standard on the USA as staff get paid very low wage as tips are expected to cover the wages, That's why great servers give great service, and people called names who don't tip as its an insult. Servers can earn hundreds of dollars in tips but it's not guaranteed. I've bagged groceries at a supermarket in the US where I have had to pay per hiur for the privilege to have access to the checkout lines and even then your not guaranteed a top. In the UK servers are paid a wage which is at or above a minimum wage so different to the US and tips are discretionary for exceptional service. I'm a Postie and walk in excess of 30,000 steps carrying up to 16kg navigating evil letterboxes that rips your fingers to shreds for hours on end in all weather carrying precious cargo to doorsteps.... How many of you tip your Postie even once a year? Tips are a way to say thank you and recognising someone going above and beyond to give you and exceptional experience it's not something to be taken for granted or expected when doing a job you already get paid for.
So if you are left feeling you want to thank staff for your experience then go ahead and top. It's discretionary and not an entitlement.

Ladyingreen999 · 19/12/2024 22:03

Balletdreamer · 19/12/2024 19:51

Good point, and how many people tip the hotel maid? That’s a very hard job that most people don’t give a thought to. I find the fixation on specifically tipping waiting staff odd (though I do it because it’s expected!)

I do, if staying somewhere for at least a few days, especially abroad, I'd leave any leftover currency (within reason!) to the housekeepers:)

Tryingtokeepgoing · 19/12/2024 22:02

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 00:37

I would say tipping has always been a thing in the UK, but mainly at more expensive restaurants, not pubs.

I suspect we consume so much American media that some people think the US tipping system is normal in the UK (it is not; we have a minimum wage).

I’m in my fifties, and tipping has always been a thing in the UK for me, and not just in expensive restaurants. And we didn’t even watch ITV as kids, so no US influence back then 🤣

In my experience any meal out involving an order taken at a table by an actual person has always involved a tip. And meals involving table service even often involves a tip. A pub meal brought to the table definitely always meant a tip. And, from my student days waitressing and from talking to people over the years, tips are generally shared front and back of house.

No tips for drinks at the bar (unlike the US) or the fast food places though. A few coins thrown in the jar at a cafe has also always been a thing, but not as much expectation to do so than for full table service.

tommyhoundmum · 19/12/2024 21:53

What is your "principle" on tipping?

Bobafett2020 · 19/12/2024 21:46

eightIsNewNine · 19/12/2024 21:03

It doesn't really mean people have to/should tip though. Hospitality job isn't significantly harder than other minimum wage jobs for example personal care and isn't disadvantageg compared to them as in the USA.

The only reason why majority tips is a social pressure and as such it can be reversed. Staff wanting better pay is ok, but they should take it up with their employers, not with the customers.

Working in an office isn't significantly harder than other minimum wage jobs. Since when is pay related to the 'hardness' of a job. Why do you have an inherent belief that waiting staff should earn minimum wage simply because other minimum wage jobs exist.

Pixiedust88 · 19/12/2024 21:23

I ask them to take the optional tip off the bill and will tip the waiter/waitress directly with cash. I refuse to pay it as part of the bill as when I worked in a restaurant when I was younger and the optional tip went on the bill and we never saw any of it as the restaurant kept it all

eightIsNewNine · 19/12/2024 21:03

Bobafett2020 · 19/12/2024 20:13

No it isn't. Are you saying that hospitality employers don't know when they hire people that they are going to get tips? Or that people accepting those jobs aren't aware that they will be tipped? Like any other job they will factor in salary, benefits, perks, holidays, hours etc and take a job on that basis. Just because it's a minimum wage job doesn't mean they shouldn't get tipped in addition. By that reckoning nobody should ever get above minimum wage for anything.

It doesn't really mean people have to/should tip though. Hospitality job isn't significantly harder than other minimum wage jobs for example personal care and isn't disadvantageg compared to them as in the USA.

The only reason why majority tips is a social pressure and as such it can be reversed. Staff wanting better pay is ok, but they should take it up with their employers, not with the customers.

WhereYouLeftIt · 19/12/2024 20:43

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 00:02

Had a pub meal with a group, main courses (burgers, curries etc) cost £20. An 'optional' service charge is listed on the bill.

£2 or £4 isn't going to break the bank. But I just don't want to support the system, on principle.

I don't want to cause group drama either. What should I do in this situation?

"What should I do in this situation?"

Get a grip? Either tip, or don't tip. Maybe your colleagues will notice, maybe they won't. Maybe your choice will colour their opinion of you from now on, maybe it won't. Whatever.

MyNeatLimeCat · 19/12/2024 20:39

4amber · 19/12/2024 20:19

Hospitality work is tough , really tough with low pay & demanding unsocial hours ….
Ask yourself if you would do the job ….. give a cash tip …

What makes you think I haven't done the job?

OP posts:
RavenhairedRachel · 19/12/2024 20:20

I totally agree with you. A tip is optional and for me depends on the service and quality of the food. I went out last week for a Christmas meal with a few friends it was quite expensive. The meal wasn't good but apart from one small issue we didn't complain although in hindsight we should have done. For example 3 halves of new potato 6 carrots and 6 sprouts between 2 people is a bit of a joke. Cheesecake with the base as thick as the top which would have been o.k if it hadn't have been like concrete. The service was o.k not great But what rattled me when we came to pay the bill we all wanted to pay separately as 2 had shared a bottle of wine and a couple only had water etc. My bill came to £32.00 odd I wanted to pay cash. I gave the young girl on the bar 2 £20 notes she looked at them then at me like I'd landed from another planet. Then she said, "Would you like change from that " Well yes I would. I couldn't believe it

4amber · 19/12/2024 20:19

Hospitality work is tough , really tough with low pay & demanding unsocial hours ….
Ask yourself if you would do the job ….. give a cash tip …

LlynTegid · 19/12/2024 20:16

You could tip in cash, refusing to pay it as part of a bill. As used to be the case.

Bobafett2020 · 19/12/2024 20:13

MyNeatLimeCat · 19/12/2024 19:46

You must be from the US. Please google 'minimum wage UK'.

Everything you said is wrong.

No it isn't. Are you saying that hospitality employers don't know when they hire people that they are going to get tips? Or that people accepting those jobs aren't aware that they will be tipped? Like any other job they will factor in salary, benefits, perks, holidays, hours etc and take a job on that basis. Just because it's a minimum wage job doesn't mean they shouldn't get tipped in addition. By that reckoning nobody should ever get above minimum wage for anything.

skyana · 19/12/2024 20:12

I hate the idea of tips!! I agree with you op. If the waiters deserve a tip and food delivery drivers, why not Royal Mail staff, Amazon drivers, they work just as hard if not harder, what about the bin men, life wouldn't run smoothly without them, so why then does a waiter deserve it more for doing their job which they are being paid to do?

Also with these service charges these days, they don't go to staff, straight to the business, they've hiked the price of everything and then add service charge on top. Ridiculous. It's even hilarious that it's optional, so they want to make you look silly by refusing.

Even when you pay with card at certain stores now, you have the option to give in charity, press red for no and green for yes, infuriates me, why I'm I being forced to give, i will sort my own charity out.

I will never forget when I was eating at McDonald's restaurant with my kids, the manager went table to table talking about a charity and asking for donation. When she came to ours, I was already annoyed as I saw what she was doing to other customers, so I said to her I'm not interested before she could finish, bare in mind I'm in the middle of eating, she looked shocked and says it's a charity for children, I was like and?? If McDonald's cares so much about a children charity, take it out of the profits and give it, don't ask paying sat customers who are eating.

Zanatdy · 19/12/2024 19:56

I personally always tip, not on top of service charge. Everyone I eat outs with tips, though my friends from ‘back home’ less tip than my local friends (more affluent area).

Balletdreamer · 19/12/2024 19:51

MyNeatLimeCat · 18/12/2024 00:16

I also have worked in a pub/restaurant. Dish washer, cleaner, bar staff and wait staff.

Dish washer is the hardest one. Would you leave a tip for your dish washer too?

Good point, and how many people tip the hotel maid? That’s a very hard job that most people don’t give a thought to. I find the fixation on specifically tipping waiting staff odd (though I do it because it’s expected!)

MyNeatLimeCat · 19/12/2024 19:46

Bobafett2020 · 19/12/2024 17:50

You sound awful. I would cover your tip and never go out with you again. You are surely aware that unlike other jobs, server jobs are paid at a rate that assumes tips will also be part of the salary, and they accept the job under that assumption. It's been that way for decades, all over the world, and is not changing any time soon. What a battle to pick. Uggh.

You must be from the US. Please google 'minimum wage UK'.

Everything you said is wrong.

OP posts:
Bobafett2020 · 19/12/2024 19:41

Rosiecidar · 19/12/2024 19:22

But it's not all over the world. In the UK there's a minimum wage. In the US tips from part of the minimum wage which is dramatically lower. In Germany, France, Italy there's a rounding up culture. We had rounding up too then in London restaurants it became 10 per cent and now up to 15 per cent. I tip and I think generally 10 per cent is reasonable but there's places I no longer go to because 15 per cent on an already expensive meal becomes unaffordable. We will get to a stage where people will only eat out on Birthdays and special occasions...

Yes obviously I didn't mean it's exactly the same in every country in the world. But it exists in some form jnt he majority of places. The UK has its own version which isn't going anywhere.

BeLilacSloth · 19/12/2024 19:36

Pleaseee don’t be that friend 🙄 I have two friends who are stingy and won’t tip, they’re not very well liked in the group…

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 19/12/2024 19:30

LalaPaloosa2024 · 19/12/2024 19:28

I’m not sure what your problem is. Just leave the tip.

If you want to leave one then do. Don't tell other people that they must.

LalaPaloosa2024 · 19/12/2024 19:28

I’m not sure what your problem is. Just leave the tip.

Rosiecidar · 19/12/2024 19:22

Bobafett2020 · 19/12/2024 17:50

You sound awful. I would cover your tip and never go out with you again. You are surely aware that unlike other jobs, server jobs are paid at a rate that assumes tips will also be part of the salary, and they accept the job under that assumption. It's been that way for decades, all over the world, and is not changing any time soon. What a battle to pick. Uggh.

But it's not all over the world. In the UK there's a minimum wage. In the US tips from part of the minimum wage which is dramatically lower. In Germany, France, Italy there's a rounding up culture. We had rounding up too then in London restaurants it became 10 per cent and now up to 15 per cent. I tip and I think generally 10 per cent is reasonable but there's places I no longer go to because 15 per cent on an already expensive meal becomes unaffordable. We will get to a stage where people will only eat out on Birthdays and special occasions...

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