To not leave a tip on principle

You sound like a tight arse. Don't want to pay the tip they ask for, don't eat there.

They do get fair wages in the UK that's the difference and tipping is not mandatory or an expected part of the wage if it was it would be taxed as income by the Government. So calling someone else a twat for not paying extra for something that is not mandatory shows lack of cultural awareness on your part, try offering a top in Iceland and you will find you have a highly offended recipient, that makes you the twat not the other way round

Really, if you care about having fair wages in the UK there are many better ways to go about it than by attacking the rights of waiting staff

Not sure where rights come into it where tips are concerned, @Bobafett2020?

Otherwise I agree about there being "far better ways", and surely the best way of all is for staff to take it up with their management if they feel hard done by.
As mentioned upthread I'd no more insert myself into other people's employment issues than I'd expect them to do with mine ...

Do you mean the system being that the bill actully ALREADY INCLUDES the tip of say 15%? Personally this really annoys me, if want to tip I absolutely always will although i do feel tipping really stems from the days when minimum or living wage did not exist, in what other world can an employee basically do their job and work hard and yet receive tips on top of wages for doing so? It's just a cheek really, goes straight to the restaurant in the first place. Who knows who and if tge tip ever reaches those staff? Yes it states a tip can be removed if you ask, but they know that this is too awkward and leads to questions for most people. But sometimes you might be out for one meal that year and you truly cannot afford that bit extra, I resent that forced act, and I've also tipped on occasions without even realising I've already tipped when I paid in this system, so I've tipped twice as I'm sure many do. It's not really fair is it? Regarding what you do in that situation now you're aware of it, is to maybe point it out to the others, and they may feel same way, that they're being hijacked, and agree to collectively ask for it to be removed, and that you'll each put in a tip you wish to/can afford. Also, tips used to be in cash for obvious reasons, and given to your own server.

@peachystormy to make it worse, I had no internet there unless I signed up for their free WiFi, giving them all my details (name, address Etc) then the connection was so bad it took 4 attempts to pay! So a good 10 minutes faffing about to place my own order!

I don’t like tips being added to the bill. How do you know how who it’s going to go to? I like to leave cash to the particular staff member, though TBH it’s not unknown for us to do both.

I got out with a group of friends monthly to different places. We split the bill (we are close friends and all have similarly priced dishes and drinks generally) and all add a bit extra each for a decent tip.

However we've been to places when the service charge is added and we always ask for it to be taken off. Why should they get to decide if and what we tip them? Rude assumption. A tip is a nice gesture that the customer decides whether to give.

I don’t tip in a cafe ( I’m in the UK ) where I have stood in a queue to order a coffee + maybe a slice of cake 🍰 at the till and then one member of staff brings to table .
I would likely tip a % where I’d had table service .
I spent a few weeks in Japan and you definitely do not tip there .
On a short break away in Italy the staff member said no tips as a cover charge per person is already in place and is clearly noted on the menu .
In all honesty don’t really think tipping should be a thing , the staff need to be laid a fair wage for a days work and that’s it .

Yeah I hate that! You do all the work yourself

I suspect we consume so much American media that some people think the US tipping system is normal in the UK (it is not; we have a minimum wage).

We have minimum wage in the US as well ( the amounts can vary by state). And it applies to wait staff. Wait staff are generally paid a base wage that is less than the statutory minimum wage, with the expectation that tips will make up the difference. If tips are not adequate to make up the difference, the employer has to pay an additional amount to equal the minimum wage. It's a less than ideal system for many reasons, but many wait staff don't want it to change because they often make substantially more than the minimum wage.

I’ve stopped tipping now when they hand me the eftpos with the 10, 20, 30% tip options. In Australia they’re all paid a living wage and don’t deserve more money for doing their job properly. If it’s exceptionally great service I’ll leave a 5 star review but rarely tip anymore. I eat out 2-3 times a week at least between lunches and dinners, having to tip is just throwing money away.

I'm in Australia where tipping is creeping in. I refuse because servers often earn more than I do. On public holidays & Sundays my cousin's adult child gets more per hour in a popular cafe chain than they earn in their full time job, and a full meal on shift. It's casual rates so less entitlements but still huge! Whereas my friend who just moved home to Canada is earning about the same as a 16 year old Macca's employee here, so yes, I'd tip there for sure.

My local tavern (family pub) now automatucally adds an 'optional' service charge you have to remove. You order & pay at table using a QR code, order drinks at the bar & carry them yourself. The only staff interaction is to be seated & food delivered to the table. The price is extortionate now, so we only eat out if there's a family occasion anyway.

I wish they would do that in the US.

Thought you must be, it's completely different and unnecessary in the UK.
It's just done out of habit from a bygone age by some as opposed to genuine need/topping up wages.

Forgot to say, I'm in the US.

I always tip at least 20% If really good service 25% . I was once a waitress in my teens and know it's not easy. Waitress staff depends on their tips to pay bills.

It's the UK, it's an outdated tradition that makes no sense in today's world - everyone gets minimum wage, deciding some are worthy of tipping just for doing their job but not others is ridiculous.
YANBU.
Especially if it's automatically added onto your bill as an expectation.

A lot of restaurants in Sydney are now automatically charging a 10% service charge and then ask for a tip on top of that. The law states that they must clearly state this on their menus or websites (usually in the tiniest print way down the bottom), so it's not sprung on the customers at the register.

Most restaurants refuse to take cash as well so the terminal is already set up for service charges and tips. What is the service charge for if it's not a tip?

It's totally your choice to tip or not to tip. You can always ask to have the service charge removed from the bill.

Some things I bear in mind: does management pass on the service charge to the staff?; do all the staff (inc. washer-uppers/back of house) get their fair share of the service-charge/tips; is it better to pay the bill WITHOUT service charge and to add the amount in cash?

That's not true.
There is no general standard saying what will happen with the extra money
There is a confusion whether tipping is part of the price or a way to thank for exceptional service. (See the other thread about "tipping the bin man" where it is outright bribe/pay for non-standard service)
If it is part of the pay, just include it in the price and get rid of the songs and dances around it.
If it is optional, it is optional.
If it is meant for exceptional service, don't expect it in normal average ok case.

Well I agree with her in principle too, but I also feel that there is no benefit to taking this action. Some principles are worth taking a stand on and will result in change.

• Calling out racism - the person will think twice about their views and others know it’s not ok.
• Insisting on equal pay with men - paves the way for change and sets a precedent, example and expectation for other women.
• Standing up for a charity or cause - raising awareness, funds. etc.

Refusing to leave a tip though - what is accomplished? Nothing. The waiter is probably anxious that they did something wrong or that you weren’t happy with the meal. Nobody else knows you didn’t leave a tip. Nothing gained other than your pocket. No cause served, just seems rather tight to me.

But the point is that that's how they earn their wage, a portion of it is earned through tips. In some jobs a portion of your salary is earned through bonuses. Some people get paid overtime. Some don't. Why pick on waiting staff, a low paid job even with tips, and decide you personally will withhold some of their expected pay because you would prefer them to be paid under a different system. Everybody knows that you pay in the region af 10-14% in tips, it's part of the cost of your meal, and if you can't afford to pay it then you can't afford to eat out unfortunately. Actually it seems the OP can afford to pay it, but chooses not too, because out of all the unfair and silly employment systems that exist in the UK they have decided that it is somehow incumbent on them to make a stand about hospitality staff receiving their tips. Or maybe they are just a bit of a twat, dressing their twatness up as some sort of principle. Really, if you care about having fair wages in the UK there are many better ways to go about it than by attacking the rights of waiting staff.

I agree with her

Ok Mr Pink.

I had this carry on when I went there a while back. Never tipped either lol there was literally no service to tip for!