Page 6 | AIBU in thinking the government have made the correct decision not to blanket pay all WASPI women £3k? This goes against the Ombudsman recommendations to pay between £1k-3k to every WASPI women.

caringcarer · 2024-12-17T13:35:59+00:00

At the time it was in every newspaper for weeks, in the radio and on the TV news a lot of coverage via the media. Most women of this age agree they knew about pension age changes. At the time it was huge. I fail to understand how any women could not have known unless they lived off grid. No individual letters were sent out to the women who would be affected. The Ombudsman's recommendation was that a blanket payment of between £1k-3k be paid to all WASPI women. Labour have just announced no money will be paid out at all. It would have cost the taxpayer up to £10.5 billion pounds on top of the huge amount of my ney it has cost to review it for several years. It is money that the government just don't have. Assuming lessons have been learned and any future changes will see DWP send out letters to any individuals who it will directly affect. The only worry is that it sets a precedent of ignoring what the Ombudsman's recommendations.

Gingerbee · 19/12/2024 00:30

MereDintofPandiculation · 17/12/2024 20:38

The first change was, the second wasn’t. Most oeople who weren’t directly affected were only dimly aware there were two changes

Show quote history

'Dim' may be the operative word.
The ladies I know all had a moan about it at the time.
We should be more worried that our children may never receive a state pension despite paying into the system.

wombat15 · 18/12/2024 23:06

WeWillGetThereInTheEnd · 18/12/2024 22:51

Giving money to these women, who have had to simply work a little bit longer until they got their pension (but not as long as I will have to do) would be totally ridiculous given all of the other things it could and should be spent on.

Considering the majority of unpaid carers are women and 1 in 4 unpaid carers are living in poverty, I’d like to see how you could live on carers allowance of £81 per week for the next 6 years? (Bearing in mind many carers can’t do any paid work due to their caring responsibilities and spousal carers over 65 are iirc 23% more likely to have a stroke than the “normal population). We have one of the, if not the lowest pension in Europe; but it would still be way more than carers allowance!

I personally consider the money spent on wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine to name but a few and nothing to do with us; Covid (billions wasted on furlough, Test and Trace, PPE); overseas aid (one big slush fund); bailing out the banks, Quantitative Easing and Carbon Capture all to be a massive waste of money against which, £10 billion on WASPI women is a drop in the ocean! During Covid, people on furlough should have just got benefits at the same level as everyone else, seeing as the working population vote for that for other people, so they must consider it enough to live on!

The government saved £181 billion by raising women’s pension age to the same as men, so £10 billion would still be a massive saving!

I doubt that the majority of Waspi women are unpaid carers. I would rather money was given directly to all unpaid carers rather than just Waspi women

WeWillGetThereInTheEnd · 18/12/2024 22:51

Giving money to these women, who have had to simply work a little bit longer until they got their pension (but not as long as I will have to do) would be totally ridiculous given all of the other things it could and should be spent on.

Considering the majority of unpaid carers are women and 1 in 4 unpaid carers are living in poverty, I’d like to see how you could live on carers allowance of £81 per week for the next 6 years? (Bearing in mind many carers can’t do any paid work due to their caring responsibilities and spousal carers over 65 are iirc 23% more likely to have a stroke than the “normal population). We have one of the, if not the lowest pension in Europe; but it would still be way more than carers allowance!

I personally consider the money spent on wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine to name but a few and nothing to do with us; Covid (billions wasted on furlough, Test and Trace, PPE); overseas aid (one big slush fund); bailing out the banks, Quantitative Easing and Carbon Capture all to be a massive waste of money against which, £10 billion on WASPI women is a drop in the ocean! During Covid, people on furlough should have just got benefits at the same level as everyone else, seeing as the working population vote for that for other people, so they must consider it enough to live on!

The government saved £181 billion by raising women’s pension age to the same as men, so £10 billion would still be a massive saving!

Q2C4 · 18/12/2024 22:40

@EmmaMaria if Amazon are not servicing their legitimate tax obligations, that's tax evasion which is a criminal offence. If you have evidence to support this you should report it to the NCA or HMRC.

MadnessIsMyMiddleName · 18/12/2024 22:40

EmmaMaria · 17/12/2024 14:30

It doesn't affect me directly, although I was (just) born within the range affected, because I do not depend on my state pension and because I have always worked, so have a full state pension. However, I do think that people today often fail to realise the degree of social change that has taken place over my lifetime, especially for women. Where I grew up - an urban environment so not in the sticks! - most women did not stay in education past 16, few had careers and those that did often had massive interuptions in their working lives due to parental responsibilities. They didn't get to worry about the cost of nursery or how many free hours they could get and when they got them, because there were few nurseries and no free hours at all. If I am brutally honest, educated, thinking working class women were pretty rare. The normal expectation was leave school, work for a few years, court, marry and have babies (preferably in that order, but often not). News was something that many men and women paid scant attention to - the big stories, yes, but being "well informed" wasn't often an agenda item. And thinking about pensions was like the far distant future anyway.

So many of these women really didn't know about or understand pensions, eligibility and all the rules that were associated with them. Remember that their parents were amongst the first to ever see a state pension. It wasn't until 1946 that the universal state pension was introduced.

I think it is wrong, although unsurprising, that the Labour government has decided to refuse any payments after the ombudsmans recommendation. But after taking fuel allowance from the elderly, what is leaving many women in poverty? Thank God the Labour Party are on the side of the working men and women of the country. Otherwise we might blink and think the Tories got back in.

You took the words right out of my mouth with what you've said here 'EmmaMaria'. I am just in the Waspi cohort, and things were incredibly different when we were younger. I think it likely that the vast majority of Mums on here, are far better informed on just about every subject, than women who were born in the 1950's.

MontyDonsBlueScarf · 18/12/2024 22:31

DarkAndTwisties · 18/12/2024 14:10

The situation is very different now. When the state pension was introduced there were 20 people of working age to every pensioner, now there are fewer than 3 people of working age to every pensioner. This will be a combination of people living longer meaning more pensioners, plus falling birth rate meaning fewer working people.

Unfortunately, an individual having paid taxes for others to have a pension doesn't mean anything for what they'll get as a pensioner.

Show quote history

I completely agree, but I think you and others are missing my point.

It's possible to realise and accept that your generation is going to have to bear a double burden, because things have changed, and at the same time to challenge the thinking that says you're not being treated more harshly than those who came before you. It would help enormously if people said 'we understand why you feel aggrieved and we agree that there's some unfairness there, but it's inevitable'. That's very different to saying 'tough, we're all in the same boat'. We are not. Whichever generation has to bear the brunt of a switch from current workers paying for existing pensioners, to everybody paying for themselves, has drawn the short end of the stick.

BIossomtoes · 18/12/2024 22:28

Fluufer · 18/12/2024 20:52

Do we expect the same declaration for everything we can't afford? Obviously not.

Show quote history

We do if it’s the reason for a government change of heart.

Lovelyview · 18/12/2024 21:05

I am disappointed for them. Labour MPs including Angela Raynor have been vocal in their support for the Waspi campaign and the ombudsman did find that the decision wasn't communicated well and the women should be compensated. It is not easy to find employment in your sixties so those who didn't know about this change have been left in some very difficult circumstances.

Fluufer · 18/12/2024 20:52

BIossomtoes · 18/12/2024 17:54

Then why not be transparent? We all know there’s no money for anything so be clear that’s the reason, Liz Kendall was offered a get out clause by one of the Labour backbenchers yesterday and didn’t take it. I’m enough of a cynic not to have expected any money but Starmer, Reeves, Rayner and Kendall all purported to support the WASPI cause. Just say it’s a just cause but there’s no money, ffs.

Show quote history

Do we expect the same declaration for everything we can't afford? Obviously not.

StrikeForever · 18/12/2024 20:39

crummygecko · 18/12/2024 02:41

This. I think amounts in billions are hard to comprehend and people instinctively think that a billion is just a bit more than a million.

Syria - £50m
Train drivers - £137m
WASPI compensation. - £3,500m to £10,500m (£3.5b to £10.5b).

I have to agree with the government that this is not a good use of public funds. At the lower end it's £1,000 a head with much of that going to people who were fully aware and/or wouldn't have done anything differently had they been aware.

I also lived through this - most of us did as it wasn't even 20 years ago! The maladministration found related to decisions made from 2005 -2007 only.

Edited

Show quote history

There are people bandying these figures around, but It’s actually 1 billion!

Anonymouseposter · 18/12/2024 20:36

wombat15 · 18/12/2024 16:38

But relatively easy to get a council house in the 1970s and buying a house was much more affordable than today too. I don't think life has been so much harder on average for women born in the 50s and 60s compared with younger women and you are not going to get sympathy because your retirement age was increased at short notice especially as it will still be lower then their retirement age will be.

Edited

Show quote history

I didn't ask for it. I said that I agreed that compensation should not be paid and that I had in fact received a letter in the 1990s making the changes very clear to me. This particular post that you have responded to was just an answer to people talking about maternity rights.
There are swings and roundabouts. A lot of things are more difficult now ( buying a house for example) but women born in the early 50s became adults at a time of great change in women's position.
Prior to 1979 you could be sacked for getting pregnant. When I was 25 I tried to make an enquiry about a mortgage and was told they couldn't talk to me and I needed to return with my husband or father.
We were expected to giggle at sexual harassment in our smoky workplaces but I did get a full student grant and with my husband bought a property which grew in value. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the people wanting to be compensated. There are other priorities.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/12/2024 20:23

slightlydistrac · 18/12/2024 16:06

The government of the day SHOULD have written to ALL women who were in the age range to be affected by this, and exlained exactly what those women needed to do in order to mitigate their own situation.

They did not.

There was a fair amount in the press, but people will have just read that the state pension age was going up and thought oh well, nothing I can do about that.

I am beyond livid, and have been since the day I found out I have to pay 7 more years of NI contributions, and in return, get 7 years less in state pension paid to me.

Those affected should be recompensed for the government having failed in their duty to inform them of what the effect of the changes was going to be.

I am beyond livid, and have been since the day I found out I have to pay 7 more years of NI contributions, and in return, get 7 years less in state pension paid to me

The reason for 7 more years of NI contributions is that the generation above you was starting to live longer than it was historically. That's a good thing, no? Your own generation is expected to live even longer than that. You don't NEED the state pension to start at the age it was given a couple of generations previous. I just don't see the issue. Where exactly do you want the money to come from to cover for people's longer lives?

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/12/2024 20:13

BlackJacktheDog · 18/12/2024 15:57

Regardless of communication, state pension ages should not be changed for adults already working. It's morally wrong and leaves them with reduced time in which to make up the shortfall.

Once you start working and start paying NI it should be seen as a committed contract. You pay in for a minimum of x years over your lifetime and get y when you are z years old. People should be able to rely on it or they should be able to opt out of paying into it at all. (Put health costs into income tax and make NI voluntary.) You cannot force people to pay in to a scheme without also giving them the security of knowing what they will get out of it.

If state pension ages need changing then it needs doing for people who are not yet working - and needs to come with corresponding consideration for how to ensure they still have a fair shot at saving for a private pension.

You do realise that private pensions and workplace pensions T and Cs also change every so often?

YOu're talking about a potential working life of nearly 50 years for most people. Are you seriously saying that for half a century there must be no changes to someone's Ts and Cs for a state pension scheme which relies on contributions from the generation below? Do you realise how much this country has changed demographically in 50 years? The only way you could guarantee that a state pension scheme would remain exactly the same all of someone's working life is to apply some kind of control to the country's demographics? I take it you support the assisted dying bill? That would be a good start, do you think?

I'm obviously joking, but I don't know what people expect. A country changes. The needs of its population changes. Its financial situation changes. Inflation is up and down like a yo yo over that many years. Anything at all provided by the state is liable to change over time. Anything. Come on, everyone knows this. You must take the responsibility to provide for yourself. If you want a guaranteed income in retirement plan to buy an annuity. And, guess what, even the rates for THOSE change!

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/12/2024 19:48

BIossomtoes · 18/12/2024 11:25

I was a contractor. There was no option to keep working in my job because contracts run out. In addition my parents were very old and quite sick, the plan was to give them my time.

Show quote history

But what exactly would have changed in practice had you been given more notice of the change? This is what I don't understand. What exactly would you have been able to do differently had you had more notice? As it seems to be the lack of notice that people are complaining about.

You can't magic money out of thin air It's a fact that notice or not, people were always just going to have to work a few extra years.

Thisiswhathings · 18/12/2024 19:48

Portakalkedi · 18/12/2024 19:38

It's just another lie that Labour told before the election. Pics in the paper of Starmer Rayner, Reeves etc al holding up placards in support of Waspi women. Lying bastards. Funny though that unions are typically Labour voters and pensioners are not. And also strange that there's enough to pay train drivers ridiculous increases, enough to support endless illegal migrants, to pay for wars in other countries, to send aid to countries which have space programs etc etc. Can't believe anyone was thick enough to believe one word Labour said in the election campaign.

Labour didn't campaign this time to pay compensation it wasn't in the manifesto. Train drivers work for private companies not the government.
Agree if people were stupid enough to think something that wasn't in the manifesto was going to come true then I have some magic beans to sell. Maybe it's the same people who send money to Nigerian princes .

wombat15 · 18/12/2024 19:48

Portakalkedi · 18/12/2024 19:38

It's just another lie that Labour told before the election. Pics in the paper of Starmer Rayner, Reeves etc al holding up placards in support of Waspi women. Lying bastards. Funny though that unions are typically Labour voters and pensioners are not. And also strange that there's enough to pay train drivers ridiculous increases, enough to support endless illegal migrants, to pay for wars in other countries, to send aid to countries which have space programs etc etc. Can't believe anyone was thick enough to believe one word Labour said in the election campaign.

They didn't they were going to pay WASPI women before the 2024 campaign though so no lie was told.

Portakalkedi · 18/12/2024 19:38

It's just another lie that Labour told before the election. Pics in the paper of Starmer Rayner, Reeves etc al holding up placards in support of Waspi women. Lying bastards. Funny though that unions are typically Labour voters and pensioners are not. And also strange that there's enough to pay train drivers ridiculous increases, enough to support endless illegal migrants, to pay for wars in other countries, to send aid to countries which have space programs etc etc. Can't believe anyone was thick enough to believe one word Labour said in the election campaign.

MyLadyGreensleeves · 18/12/2024 19:35

What a load of numb buggers they are.

I mean there is ample proof of this-every time many of them open their mouth in what usually is a nasal or foghorn twang-but to be photographed with signs showing support for the women takes it to a new level.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs they may as well have liar or hypocrite or both written over their heads!

Do they never think. There they were playing student politics and, yet again, it has bitten them on their collective arse.

It's cruel to laugh at the afflicted but they are too numb to know they are numb.

wombat15 · 18/12/2024 19:25

pestowithwalnuts · 18/12/2024 18:28

I'm a Waspi woman and I didn't vote Labour in.
I don't vote Conservative in either because they all make false promises and an arse of everything

Show quote history

Nobody promised compensation for Waspi women in 2024.

LikeWhoUsesTypewritersAnyway · 18/12/2024 19:21

DarkAndTwisties · 18/12/2024 18:32

Seem to be a lot of people conflating the change to the state pension age with the communication of the change. To be honest I think the WASPI campaign do this themselves (blur whether they're campaigning about the maladministration point or the fairness of the change to the state pension age).

I agree that there is a conflation. There was someone on the bbc talking about 6 years of pension had been stolen from her. Which is fine for her to think, but no one is campaigning for the actual change to be reversed.

Yeah, no-one is going to campaign, because no-one has had 6 years of their pension stolen! 🙄

wombat15 · 18/12/2024 19:19

Noseyoldcow · 18/12/2024 18:30

It wasn't on anyone's manifesto this time, Wombat. But Labour politicians were out with the WASPI women demonstrating their support, and it was on the Labour manifesto when Corbyn failed to get in.
Vintage 1955, I am a WASPI woman, and when the ombudsman declared that there should be compensation, I said that if I got a payout, I'd be eating my hat. Wonder how much money was wasted on the ombudsman? Shouldn't have bothered if they were going to ignore the findings.

I know it wasn't on anyones manifesto this time. When it was in 2019 Labour didn't win the election. They only won when is wasn't on their manifesto in 2024 so they are no obligation to support compensation now.

MonkeyToHeaven · 18/12/2024 19:19

Fluufer · 18/12/2024 17:49

Nations finances have changed though.

Show quote history

That's debatable. It also doesn't change the fact they campaigned on the issue or impact the principle.

FiveFoxes · 18/12/2024 19:04

slightlydistrac · 18/12/2024 16:06

The government of the day SHOULD have written to ALL women who were in the age range to be affected by this, and exlained exactly what those women needed to do in order to mitigate their own situation.

They did not.

There was a fair amount in the press, but people will have just read that the state pension age was going up and thought oh well, nothing I can do about that.

I am beyond livid, and have been since the day I found out I have to pay 7 more years of NI contributions, and in return, get 7 years less in state pension paid to me.

Those affected should be recompensed for the government having failed in their duty to inform them of what the effect of the changes was going to be.

This applies to more than women born in the 50s though. Any woman born before 1979 reached 16 and the start of their working life when the state pension age was 60. And indeed, if born after 6 April 1978, your SPA is currently 68 and may rise, so 8 more years.

In fact, I think that every currently working person, male and female, has had their state pension age increased during their working life.

All because Mr Barber complained it wasn't fair he couldn't retire at 60 like women...

DarkAndTwisties · 18/12/2024 18:32

Seem to be a lot of people conflating the change to the state pension age with the communication of the change. To be honest I think the WASPI campaign do this themselves (blur whether they're campaigning about the maladministration point or the fairness of the change to the state pension age).

I agree that there is a conflation. There was someone on the bbc talking about 6 years of pension had been stolen from her. Which is fine for her to think, but no one is campaigning for the actual change to be reversed.

Noseyoldcow · 18/12/2024 18:30

It wasn't on anyone's manifesto this time, Wombat. But Labour politicians were out with the WASPI women demonstrating their support, and it was on the Labour manifesto when Corbyn failed to get in.
Vintage 1955, I am a WASPI woman, and when the ombudsman declared that there should be compensation, I said that if I got a payout, I'd be eating my hat. Wonder how much money was wasted on the ombudsman? Shouldn't have bothered if they were going to ignore the findings.