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AIBU?

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Our cousins took our inheritance and gave it to their mother, I feel I can't carry on acting as if nothing has happened

438 replies

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 11:17

My deceased mother had brothers and a sister. One deceased brother and the surviving sister (i.e. our aunt) had kids. We used to go on shared holidays twice a year with our aunt's kids, we've always got on well.

Our bachelor uncle died 2 years ago, with no will. When we were chatting a few months later, my aunt's eldest told me that they were going to try to "so what my uncle would have wanted". I assumed my cousin would contact me and my sister in the future to discuss this, since they would need us to sign off anything that would change the legally defined distribution (which is 1/6 each to me and my sister), since it would be a criminal offence to do otherwise, which my cousin must know, since their spouse is a director of a legal company.

A few months after my uncle died, my sister was diagnosed with incurable cancer, with months, possibly a year or two to live. She had to go on sick leave for the chemo and radiation treatment, etc. After 6 months, her sick pay dropped to 50%, and after a year was due to end. She asked me what was happening with our uncle's estate, this being around 18 months after he died, with the house sold 6 months previously. I had received no updates, so she sent a facebook message to our cousin who was dealing with the estate, asking for an update and she described her health/finance situation. To our surprise, our cousin told us that they had given all the money to my aunt, rather than the 1/3 share the law defined.

I was baffled why they'd do this without getting legal documents with our consent first. Before I had a chance to form any further opinion, my cousins blocked my sister on messenger and unfriended her on Facebook. I assume that they think that she has done something so awful that she should be shunned and disowned.

Since then, my sister has had no birthday cards from them or my aunt, and no Christmas cards so far, whereas they've carried on liking my family updates on facebook, and have sent me cheery Christmas cards which arrived a couple of days ago. My sister is dwelling on the idea that they've lied on the probate forms, pretending that our mother never existed.

I just feel queasy and sick about it, how can I carry on as normal with them, or visit them at Christmas, even though my sister has told me she doesn't want this to oblige me to distance myself.
I want to explain to them how upsetting this has been, I've lost lots of sleep over this over the past few months, but now Christmas is coming, I feel I should say something, surely if I don't it will look like tacit agreement that I agree with their actions.

I was thinking of writing to my cousin, telling them how unhappy and sad this makes me feel. I feel that they have been so unfair in acting as if my sister has done something wrong, whereas they did not tell us what they planned (hence us having to ask for an update), whereas they have in fact committed a criminal offence (which I might not highlight). I had been wishfully imagining that my aunt might be unaware of all this, but then when I woke up too early again today fretting about this, I realised that if she hasn't sent my sister a Christmas card, then she must know all about it.

Initially I had been thinking for months to send a letter explaining how I feel to my cousin. Then after realising that my aunt must know about this, I've been trying to write a letter to send to my aunt this morning, to send with a Christmas card, since she asked how we are in the card she sent to me.
Surely that's the best option. Then I felt ill writing it, then decided to ask for advice here.

I definitely can't just carry on as normal, and I don't think I can say nothing.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 14:56

CheeseSandwich2 · 16/12/2024 14:50

No deceased siblings. No will. Worst thing is that he and his sister hated each 😢

Then what happened was entirely correct.

Your FIL was her nearest kin and by not leaving a will he was entitled to it all.

Happened to someone I know and their long term partner lost their home over it.
people really need to make wills! Too many don’t

CheeseSandwich2 · 16/12/2024 14:52

Another2Cats · 16/12/2024 13:17

It's not that the sister isn't NOK it's that there is more than one NOK (even if some of them are already dead they are still counted as NOK)

How things work in England & Wales where a person dies without a will is that the money will first go to the spouse and/or any children or grandchildren.

After that it goes to the parents and then it goes to the siblings.

In the case of siblings (and children of the deceased) if they happen to die before the person without a will then, if they have children themselves, their children will benefit in place of the sibling.

So, in your situation, if your FIL and sister had another sibling but they had died before the sister then that sibling's children would be entitled to a half share of the estate left by his sister.

This is what has happened in the OP's case. There were two sisters and two brothers (I believe). One brother and sister (the OP's mum) had already passed away.

When the brother without a will died his NOK were his three siblings. Since two of those siblings had already died, their share of the inheritance is passed to any children of that sibling.

Right, OK. Now I get it 👍

CheeseSandwich2 · 16/12/2024 14:50

LadyBlackBurd · 16/12/2024 13:38

Did your father in law have any deceased siblings?

Did they have children?

If so, they should have been beneficiaries (if there was no will in England and wales)

No deceased siblings. No will. Worst thing is that he and his sister hated each 😢

Melroses · 16/12/2024 14:49

Zilla1 · 16/12/2024 13:05

Thank you. Executor is a legal position so when you say estate admins, do you mean executors or is estate admin a meaningful role?

Did the cousins send a message or letter that is evidenceable or was your sister 'told' face to face or by telephone?

'Cash' might be deliberately misleading if there was any other types of property that had value.

Perhaps draft a non-confrontational letter for your sister to send along the lines of '

Thank you for the update concerning Uncle X's estate saying that 'all the cash has already been passed to Aunt Y. Why have you passed the proceeds to Aunt Y? I'd be grateful for an estimate by when you think the estate will be settled and the proceeds fully distributed along with the relevant records.'

Next step if they don't get the message will be to ask if the cousin's husband has used has used his employers to help him in his executor's duties? That will tell them his employment and possibly his professional future is in play.

Good luck.

An Executor is one who executes a Will.

When there is no Will, someone is appointed to administer the Estate according to intestacy rules and is called an Administrator.

Negroany · 16/12/2024 14:48

RockOrAHardplace · 16/12/2024 14:26

If I am understanding correctly, you and your sister are entitled to 25% each and not 1/6.

Three siblings One Uncle and two Aunts.
Uncle Dies with no children
Your Mum died leaving you two.
Your Aunt has three kids from the sound of it.

I'm assuming you have decided you are entitled to a 6th by counting your Aunt, her kids and yourselves? I don't believe that is correct.

I believe that had your Mum still been alive the monies would have gone 50/50 to your Mum and Aunt. None of the nieces or nephews would have got anything. However as your Mum died, you and your sister inherit your mums share. So Aunty gets 50% and you and your sister share your Mums share. If you chose to waive your right in favour of your sister that would be fine. It is not the administrators place to decide this.

Four siblings - two brothers, two sisters.

Sister one died (mum of OP), brother one now died, no kids.

Remaining - aunt plus grabby cousins. Offspring from first sister (our OP and her ill sister), deceased other brother's unmentioned offspring who must exist for the math to work.

Inheriting:

1 - aunt
2 - in lieu of sister - OP and her sister
3 - in lieu of brother - offspring

Estate in thirds. OP and sis get 50% of their third. Brother (deceased) must have had some offspring who are entitled, else it would be 50/50 between aunt and deceased sisters offspring, meaning OP and sister would get 25%.

My question is - what's going on with the other cousins? So they know? Did they get anything?

Rosscameasdoody · 16/12/2024 14:46

PearPartridge · 16/12/2024 14:38

What happens if someone spends all the money and then it's found some should have gone to other people?

The administrator is personally liable for any actions that breach their duties, and they may need to pay back any losses to the estate. Additionally, if the administrator fails to settle the estate within one year, they may be liable to pay interest on any inheritance still owing.

Christmaseason · 16/12/2024 14:42

I think going down the stiff solicitor letter route is the best option.

ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 14:42

PearPartridge · 16/12/2024 14:38

What happens if someone spends all the money and then it's found some should have gone to other people?

The executor/administrator is personally liable for it.

Rosscameasdoody · 16/12/2024 14:41

RockOrAHardplace · 16/12/2024 14:26

If I am understanding correctly, you and your sister are entitled to 25% each and not 1/6.

Three siblings One Uncle and two Aunts.
Uncle Dies with no children
Your Mum died leaving you two.
Your Aunt has three kids from the sound of it.

I'm assuming you have decided you are entitled to a 6th by counting your Aunt, her kids and yourselves? I don't believe that is correct.

I believe that had your Mum still been alive the monies would have gone 50/50 to your Mum and Aunt. None of the nieces or nephews would have got anything. However as your Mum died, you and your sister inherit your mums share. So Aunty gets 50% and you and your sister share your Mums share. If you chose to waive your right in favour of your sister that would be fine. It is not the administrators place to decide this.

There was another brother who pre-deceased the bachelor brother - he had children as well as OP’s aunt, so the estate would have been split between three, not two.

Negroany · 16/12/2024 14:39

What is the view of the other deceased brother's surviving kids? I assume there are three of them who also didn't get their 1/6th? Can you rally them into action with you?

PearPartridge · 16/12/2024 14:38

What happens if someone spends all the money and then it's found some should have gone to other people?

femfemlicious · 16/12/2024 14:36

CherryFlan · 16/12/2024 12:09

I would not suggest going straight to a solicitor, just to save a bit of costs, and perhaps making the relationship more salvageable in future.

It sounds like@NeshButUpNorth may have informally given her cousins the impression that she could be happy with the money going to her aunt. Any such thing which may have been said or even put in writing informally has no legal effect. To give up her share she would need to execute a deed saying so.

At this stage I would suggest that she writes a letter herself to her cousins, specifically whichever one has been acting as administrator of the estate, explaining that she understands that she does have a legal claim which she wishes to take forward, and that if the matter cannot be sorted out amicably between them then she will ask a solicitor to set the ball rolling. It seems like the cousins are already aware of the law and are simply relying either on her goodwill or ignorance. Once they realise that she doesn't have either then they may act properly without the need for expensive legal battles.

👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿this is exactly what I was thinking as well!

Another2Cats · 16/12/2024 14:36

RockOrAHardplace · 16/12/2024 14:26

If I am understanding correctly, you and your sister are entitled to 25% each and not 1/6.

Three siblings One Uncle and two Aunts.
Uncle Dies with no children
Your Mum died leaving you two.
Your Aunt has three kids from the sound of it.

I'm assuming you have decided you are entitled to a 6th by counting your Aunt, her kids and yourselves? I don't believe that is correct.

I believe that had your Mum still been alive the monies would have gone 50/50 to your Mum and Aunt. None of the nieces or nephews would have got anything. However as your Mum died, you and your sister inherit your mums share. So Aunty gets 50% and you and your sister share your Mums share. If you chose to waive your right in favour of your sister that would be fine. It is not the administrators place to decide this.

There were two brothers and two sisters. The OP's mother was one of the sisters. So the OP and her sister are entitled to one third between them. This is 1/6th each.

FancyFran · 16/12/2024 14:36

Inheritance and taxation in Australian law is different. Don't go there.

Previous posters are correct if the aunt expects her children to inherit they don't. Only a deceased sibling's children inherit.
I did suggest up thread the op checks her home insurance for cover.

If any of these siblings are half siblings it can complicate things. Please don't take the advice of armchair Rumpoles. You'll lose out.

caringcarer · 16/12/2024 14:33

Lawoclcodoow · 16/12/2024 11:21

Go and see a solicitor don’t bother writing to them if there was something in writing for it to be shared then they’ve acted illegally.

This. Get to a solicitor now.

Winnie1950 · 16/12/2024 14:31

When my uncle died without a will his 3 living siblings got 1/6 of the estate and the nieces/nephews from the 3 deceased siblings got 1/6 or 1/12 depending on whether they were an only child or not.
Therefore I think your aunt should have received 1/2 and you and your sister 1/4 each.
I would definitely consult a solicitor about this.

femfemlicious · 16/12/2024 14:31

Ohnonotmeagain · 16/12/2024 11:58

Plus only the executor has access to financial records so no one else can get the evidence to show the fraud/theft, and it can’t be investigated without the evidence….

i even tried to get the bank who does have the evidence to investigate the executor misconduct. But no, only the executor can report misuse of a deceased persons bank account.

so the bank have their records that thousands of pounds were taken by the executor, years of financial abuse, but won’t act unless the executor asks them to….

it is absolutely head against wall. You can try civil court, but only if you have £££££££ do do so. So unless your share is in the 100k plus, you’ll lose more in legal fees.

Did you try application for inventory and account at probate registry?

edwinbear · 16/12/2024 14:30

The law is very black and white on this. I’ve just dealt with the estate of my spinster aunt who didn’t leave a will. Her brother (my dad) pre-deceased her, so her estate came to my sister and I. It’s very clear when you go through the process on the Government website - they’ve lied on the forms you submit to get Letters of Administration. I would have thought given they’ve committed a criminal offence, any legal costs you incur by recovering your inheritance would need to be paid by them - if it gets that far.

MyDeftDuck · 16/12/2024 14:26

They still need to consult a solicitor

RockOrAHardplace · 16/12/2024 14:26

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 12:10

it's around £90k-£100k I think, so 1/6 would be £15k or so each

If I am understanding correctly, you and your sister are entitled to 25% each and not 1/6.

Three siblings One Uncle and two Aunts.
Uncle Dies with no children
Your Mum died leaving you two.
Your Aunt has three kids from the sound of it.

I'm assuming you have decided you are entitled to a 6th by counting your Aunt, her kids and yourselves? I don't believe that is correct.

I believe that had your Mum still been alive the monies would have gone 50/50 to your Mum and Aunt. None of the nieces or nephews would have got anything. However as your Mum died, you and your sister inherit your mums share. So Aunty gets 50% and you and your sister share your Mums share. If you chose to waive your right in favour of your sister that would be fine. It is not the administrators place to decide this.

PleaseStopEatingMyStuff · 16/12/2024 14:24

Id be telling them where to stick their Christmas cards tbh.
You need to talk to your sister OP & decide what to do together. You need to stick by each other through this.
Your family are awful. I wouldn't think they'd be much chance of any reconciliation anyway after this. How would you ever sit around a table with them after they've treated you both this way?-and even worse with your sister feeling so afraid & vulnerable.
I really hope you'll both decide to go to a solicitor & fight for what's rightfully yours.

ScribblingPixie · 16/12/2024 14:21

Your relationship with them is dead whether you act or not. Your sister needs the money. A solicitor's letter may dislodge it without you needing to go further but do act on this.

GoodGollyMsMolly · 16/12/2024 14:20

If they still contact you in a friendly manner, please know that in their hearts, they think you are a soft-hearted sucker, OP. They steal from you and your sister.

They are CFs, I hope you will sue for what you and your sister deserve.

Ginmonkeyagain · 16/12/2024 14:19

My mum predeceased her mother. My gran did not update her will and so when she died it was clear that my mum's share of the estate went to me and my brothers.

Didn't stop my uncle arguing for months that we were entitled to nothing and my dead mum's share should go to him and my aunt - despite my uncle being left the entire family business when my grandad died (for context my mum's share was £15k).

Rosscameasdoody · 16/12/2024 14:17

Rosscameasdoody · 16/12/2024 14:11

OP the law is clear on this. If a sibling dies intestate with no other family, then the surviving full blood siblings are treated as next of kin and inherit equally. If any of them have pre-deceased their sibling, then their share goes to their children. So you and your sister would be legally entitled to your mothers’ share of the inheritance. It would be divided equally between your aunt as the surviving sibling, her other deceased brother’s children, and yourself and your sister as the children of her deceased sister.

Are the cousins dealing with the estate ? If so, who appointed them, given that there is no will ? They can’t just do as they see fit in the guise of ‘what he would have wanted’. They have to follow the law. I would see a solicitor as soon as possible and get them to draft something in writing drawing their attention to the letter of the law and asking that the funds be made available to distribute between those entitled to inherit.

Sorry too late to edit, but just to add that if these people have their own law firm they should be reported to the Law Society. They haven’t followed the intestacy laws applicable in England and Wales. It’s fraud.