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Our cousins took our inheritance and gave it to their mother, I feel I can't carry on acting as if nothing has happened

438 replies

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 11:17

My deceased mother had brothers and a sister. One deceased brother and the surviving sister (i.e. our aunt) had kids. We used to go on shared holidays twice a year with our aunt's kids, we've always got on well.

Our bachelor uncle died 2 years ago, with no will. When we were chatting a few months later, my aunt's eldest told me that they were going to try to "so what my uncle would have wanted". I assumed my cousin would contact me and my sister in the future to discuss this, since they would need us to sign off anything that would change the legally defined distribution (which is 1/6 each to me and my sister), since it would be a criminal offence to do otherwise, which my cousin must know, since their spouse is a director of a legal company.

A few months after my uncle died, my sister was diagnosed with incurable cancer, with months, possibly a year or two to live. She had to go on sick leave for the chemo and radiation treatment, etc. After 6 months, her sick pay dropped to 50%, and after a year was due to end. She asked me what was happening with our uncle's estate, this being around 18 months after he died, with the house sold 6 months previously. I had received no updates, so she sent a facebook message to our cousin who was dealing with the estate, asking for an update and she described her health/finance situation. To our surprise, our cousin told us that they had given all the money to my aunt, rather than the 1/3 share the law defined.

I was baffled why they'd do this without getting legal documents with our consent first. Before I had a chance to form any further opinion, my cousins blocked my sister on messenger and unfriended her on Facebook. I assume that they think that she has done something so awful that she should be shunned and disowned.

Since then, my sister has had no birthday cards from them or my aunt, and no Christmas cards so far, whereas they've carried on liking my family updates on facebook, and have sent me cheery Christmas cards which arrived a couple of days ago. My sister is dwelling on the idea that they've lied on the probate forms, pretending that our mother never existed.

I just feel queasy and sick about it, how can I carry on as normal with them, or visit them at Christmas, even though my sister has told me she doesn't want this to oblige me to distance myself.
I want to explain to them how upsetting this has been, I've lost lots of sleep over this over the past few months, but now Christmas is coming, I feel I should say something, surely if I don't it will look like tacit agreement that I agree with their actions.

I was thinking of writing to my cousin, telling them how unhappy and sad this makes me feel. I feel that they have been so unfair in acting as if my sister has done something wrong, whereas they did not tell us what they planned (hence us having to ask for an update), whereas they have in fact committed a criminal offence (which I might not highlight). I had been wishfully imagining that my aunt might be unaware of all this, but then when I woke up too early again today fretting about this, I realised that if she hasn't sent my sister a Christmas card, then she must know all about it.

Initially I had been thinking for months to send a letter explaining how I feel to my cousin. Then after realising that my aunt must know about this, I've been trying to write a letter to send to my aunt this morning, to send with a Christmas card, since she asked how we are in the card she sent to me.
Surely that's the best option. Then I felt ill writing it, then decided to ask for advice here.

I definitely can't just carry on as normal, and I don't think I can say nothing.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
FizzyBisto · 16/12/2024 19:47

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 13:05

Have a look at the P1A1 form, which teases out details of kin - there is no room for a narrative to be asserted

Fair enough, thanks. So how did they register their mother as NoK, then - as the term isn't used in that form? Or was somebody just using this phrase as short-form?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/12/2024 19:44

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 18:34

I genuinely hardly ever post on threads that are beyond a certain number of replies by the time I read them, but this one has really piqued my interest (inheritance arguments in my own family). The salient points from OP - which is quite longwinded and hard to follow - are that:

  • The uncle died intestate. At the time of his death he had a living sister and brother and nieces/nephews from those two siblings and OP's late mother. No children of his own.
  • OP found out that everything in the late uncle's will went to his living sister.
  • What about the living brother?
  • Also, why does anyone in the generation below the deceased uncle's siblings think that anything is automatically going to come to them?
  • Can anyone point me to the law on this?

Thank you!

I don't know why people are telling me there was no will and the brother died intestate. That's literally my first point on short list of points.

Look at your second bullet point. That's why people are correcting you about the will.

AuntyEntropy · 16/12/2024 19:44

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 19:25

I don't know why people are telling me there was no will and the brother died intestate. That's literally my first point on short list of points.

I did not understand that there was only one surviving sibling when the childless Uncle who is the subject of this thread died, so thanks for clearing that up.

If anyone can bear to link again, or point me to the posts where there are links, which clears up who inherits when someone dies intestate - then I'd be grateful and it saves me having to read the whole thread! Hopefully not too much to ask?

As a fan of the Heir Hunters TV programme, I'm surprised to hear that nieces and nephews inherit when there is a living sibling. That's all. Somehow I missed that fact despite watching many episodes.

People are telling you that there was no will because you then go on to say

"OP found out that everything in the late uncle's will went to his living sister."

An oversight in typing at speed no doubt, but you can't really blame the readers for thinking that you didn't understand that there wasn't a will.

LoveTheDarts · 16/12/2024 19:40

Specifically

The estate is shared equally between the brothers or sisters (not including any step-brothers, step-sisters, half-brothers or half-sisters).
If a brother or sister died before the deceased, their children (nieces and nephews of the deceased) will inherit in their place.

LoveTheDarts · 16/12/2024 19:38

www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will @LindorDoubleChoc

Lassofnorth · 16/12/2024 19:33

Ophy83 · 16/12/2024 19:27

You know what the legal split should be. So write to the administrator and ask for your share and for your sister to be given her share. Tell them that if they don't you will be seeking legal advice and that costs will ultimately be payable by them. If they refuse to do anything, make good on it and get that legal advice.

Îd go down the ‘I think there’s been a mistake routé first while having to hand the relevant legislation to prove my point . Îd give them chance to sort it out immediately just because it would be quicker and less stressful than the legal route and sister needs the money now.

Sunholidays · 16/12/2024 19:33

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 19:25

I don't know why people are telling me there was no will and the brother died intestate. That's literally my first point on short list of points.

I did not understand that there was only one surviving sibling when the childless Uncle who is the subject of this thread died, so thanks for clearing that up.

If anyone can bear to link again, or point me to the posts where there are links, which clears up who inherits when someone dies intestate - then I'd be grateful and it saves me having to read the whole thread! Hopefully not too much to ask?

As a fan of the Heir Hunters TV programme, I'm surprised to hear that nieces and nephews inherit when there is a living sibling. That's all. Somehow I missed that fact despite watching many episodes.

see page 2 for the links

Ophy83 · 16/12/2024 19:27

You know what the legal split should be. So write to the administrator and ask for your share and for your sister to be given her share. Tell them that if they don't you will be seeking legal advice and that costs will ultimately be payable by them. If they refuse to do anything, make good on it and get that legal advice.

Bournetilly · 16/12/2024 19:26

Why are you not sueing them? Even out of principle.

I cant believe you are even considering seeing them at Christmas/ having a relationship with them.

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 19:25

I don't know why people are telling me there was no will and the brother died intestate. That's literally my first point on short list of points.

I did not understand that there was only one surviving sibling when the childless Uncle who is the subject of this thread died, so thanks for clearing that up.

If anyone can bear to link again, or point me to the posts where there are links, which clears up who inherits when someone dies intestate - then I'd be grateful and it saves me having to read the whole thread! Hopefully not too much to ask?

As a fan of the Heir Hunters TV programme, I'm surprised to hear that nieces and nephews inherit when there is a living sibling. That's all. Somehow I missed that fact despite watching many episodes.

Lassofnorth · 16/12/2024 19:22

If there was no will how come there was an executer? I thought that was written into wills ?

Lassofnorth · 16/12/2024 19:18

ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 18:44

The Op has seen the grant giving her cousin and their spouse the administration of the estate, so there is no found will.

It’s a totally crazy situation then tbh who would knowingly do this and think they’ d get away with it?

CerealPoster · 16/12/2024 19:16

So, your Aunt and cousins threw you, your sick Dad is and other relatives under a bus financially, they stole from your sister in her most time of need, and you are worried about upsetting them?

I’d go f*cking nuclear. I’d write them a letter via a solicitor asking for your share within x days or you’ll start legal proceedings.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/12/2024 19:15

Another2Cats · 16/12/2024 16:18

Generally speaking, it's a civil matter (although it could be treated as theft if it was deliberate and not just a mistake).

But there was a case a couple of years ago where the executor ended up sentenced to three months in prison for contempt of court, later reduced to six weeks.

That was rather a different story.

Mrs Totton died in 2019 and left the bulk of her estate worth £550k to her two grandchildren and their uncle. Their uncle was the sole executor of the will.

The deceased's home was sold by the executor in 2020.

The uncle then would not give the grandchildren their share of the inheritance so the eldest issued a civil application in 2021 to the court for an order requiring him to produce the estate accounts, detailing what the assets were and what had happened to them.

He was given three weeks to do this. The court order had a penal notice on the front of it. What this means is that it warns a person that they may be held in contempt of court if they do not comply with the order.

The uncle failed to comply with the order. He did eventually comply with the order but he still failed to distribute the estate to the grandchildren. So, in 2022 he was sentenced to three months in prison. This was later reduced to six weeks.

So, yes, one example of an executor going to prison.

Totton & Anor v Totton [2022] EWHC 2304 (Ch)

A similar thing happened in 2020 in the following case:

Frejek v Frejek [2020] EWHC 1181 (Ch)
.

But perhaps the most relevant case was also in 2020 when the executor was initially sentenced to 6 months for contempt of court and then a further 3 years and 7 months for fraud.

Mrs Border died in 2015 leaving her estate to two friends. Her neighbour, David Loveday was the executor (but not a beneficiary). He ended up spending half of the money on himself.

Daily Mail story about this one:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4933316/Neighbour-charge-pensioner-s-faces-jail.html
.

Then there was the legal clerk at a firm of solicitors who acted as executor for a number of different clients. She stole over £300k from the clients' estates and was jailed for four years.

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/legal-clerk-jailed-after-stealing-300000-from-firm/5062588.article

Crikey! Some cautionary tales there.

MILLYmo0se · 16/12/2024 19:05

When your cousin said they were going to do 'what we think uncle would have wanted' what did you say? Did you tell them 'well its actually a v easy legal scenario to follow, it actually has to be divided XYZ'. They told you they weren't going to follow the law basically and you don't seem to have corrected them?
And why was cousin in charge of this, you were all equally related to the man could you not all have been involved in sorting it (especially when you d basically been given a heads-up that they were going to do something outside the law) , it's not like there was an executor appointed in a will

Zanatdy · 16/12/2024 18:55

I’d ask a solicitor to draft a letter before action kind of letter outlining the law, and giving them a chance to rectify it, otherwise legal action will commence. Assume she will have to pay her siblings too, i’d be surprised if they just let her keep all the money, they must know legally they are entitled to it? Good luck.

Rosscameasdoody · 16/12/2024 18:53

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 18:34

I genuinely hardly ever post on threads that are beyond a certain number of replies by the time I read them, but this one has really piqued my interest (inheritance arguments in my own family). The salient points from OP - which is quite longwinded and hard to follow - are that:

  • The uncle died intestate. At the time of his death he had a living sister and brother and nieces/nephews from those two siblings and OP's late mother. No children of his own.
  • OP found out that everything in the late uncle's will went to his living sister.
  • What about the living brother?
  • Also, why does anyone in the generation below the deceased uncle's siblings think that anything is automatically going to come to them?
  • Can anyone point me to the law on this?

Thank you!

There wasn’t a will. And there is no living brother. There were four - two brothers and two sisters. There is now only one living sibling - OP’s aunt. The other brother and sister (OP’s mum) died before the brother in question. The reason that the generation below the siblings are entitled to inherit is because English law says that where there is no other next of kin, full blood siblings should inherit equally, and where a sibling has passed away, their share of the inheritance should pass to their children in equal shares. It’s all online at YouGov if you want to google it. OP is correct, she and her sister are entitled to share a third of their uncles’ estate between them, as this would have been what their mother would have inherited had she survived her brother.

Gonners · 16/12/2024 18:52

AuntyEntropy · 16/12/2024 12:22

In England?

It is a well-known fact that if you are American you believe that US law (or even the law of your own state) is universal.

ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 18:44

Lassofnorth · 16/12/2024 18:41

Are you absolutely sure there wasn’t a will?

The Op has seen the grant giving her cousin and their spouse the administration of the estate, so there is no found will.

ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 18:43

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 18:34

I genuinely hardly ever post on threads that are beyond a certain number of replies by the time I read them, but this one has really piqued my interest (inheritance arguments in my own family). The salient points from OP - which is quite longwinded and hard to follow - are that:

  • The uncle died intestate. At the time of his death he had a living sister and brother and nieces/nephews from those two siblings and OP's late mother. No children of his own.
  • OP found out that everything in the late uncle's will went to his living sister.
  • What about the living brother?
  • Also, why does anyone in the generation below the deceased uncle's siblings think that anything is automatically going to come to them?
  • Can anyone point me to the law on this?

Thank you!

There wasn’t a will. He died intestate.

The link to the government pages showing exactly who inherits when someone is intestate has been posted a few times.

There is no living brother. There are children of the deceased brother.

The laws of intestacy go by closeness of kin - so children. He had none.

Parents are next. None still living.

Siblings - he had three so his estate goes to them. The sibling who is living inherits directly. The children of the deceased siblings inherit their parents share in equal parts.

If a deceased sibling had no children their share would go back to the pot, but that’s not relevant in this case.

Lassofnorth · 16/12/2024 18:41

Are you absolutely sure there wasn’t a will?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/12/2024 18:39

Ginmonkeyagain · 16/12/2024 14:19

My mum predeceased her mother. My gran did not update her will and so when she died it was clear that my mum's share of the estate went to me and my brothers.

Didn't stop my uncle arguing for months that we were entitled to nothing and my dead mum's share should go to him and my aunt - despite my uncle being left the entire family business when my grandad died (for context my mum's share was £15k).

Edited

What a charmer! How do such people sleep at night?

GooseClues · 16/12/2024 18:36

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 17:57

no, I know exactly what to do legally, I was asking more about ethics and consequences, and anyone's insights into this.

To be honest, if I were you I’d go all in and try to get the cousins spouse in trouble so he never works in this field again. If he’s willing to do this to terminally ill family, imagine what kind of scamy shit he pulls in his everyday life! You and your sister might (completely misguidedly) decide to let it go but from an ethical standpoint you should also think of other potential victims and their ruined lives.

Lassofnorth · 16/12/2024 18:36

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 18:34

I genuinely hardly ever post on threads that are beyond a certain number of replies by the time I read them, but this one has really piqued my interest (inheritance arguments in my own family). The salient points from OP - which is quite longwinded and hard to follow - are that:

  • The uncle died intestate. At the time of his death he had a living sister and brother and nieces/nephews from those two siblings and OP's late mother. No children of his own.
  • OP found out that everything in the late uncle's will went to his living sister.
  • What about the living brother?
  • Also, why does anyone in the generation below the deceased uncle's siblings think that anything is automatically going to come to them?
  • Can anyone point me to the law on this?

Thank you!

There wasn’t a will so he was intestate.

LindorDoubleChoc · 16/12/2024 18:34

I genuinely hardly ever post on threads that are beyond a certain number of replies by the time I read them, but this one has really piqued my interest (inheritance arguments in my own family). The salient points from OP - which is quite longwinded and hard to follow - are that:

  • The uncle died intestate. At the time of his death he had a living sister and brother and nieces/nephews from those two siblings and OP's late mother. No children of his own.
  • OP found out that everything in the late uncle's will went to his living sister.
  • What about the living brother?
  • Also, why does anyone in the generation below the deceased uncle's siblings think that anything is automatically going to come to them?
  • Can anyone point me to the law on this?

Thank you!

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