Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Our cousins took our inheritance and gave it to their mother, I feel I can't carry on acting as if nothing has happened

438 replies

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 11:17

My deceased mother had brothers and a sister. One deceased brother and the surviving sister (i.e. our aunt) had kids. We used to go on shared holidays twice a year with our aunt's kids, we've always got on well.

Our bachelor uncle died 2 years ago, with no will. When we were chatting a few months later, my aunt's eldest told me that they were going to try to "so what my uncle would have wanted". I assumed my cousin would contact me and my sister in the future to discuss this, since they would need us to sign off anything that would change the legally defined distribution (which is 1/6 each to me and my sister), since it would be a criminal offence to do otherwise, which my cousin must know, since their spouse is a director of a legal company.

A few months after my uncle died, my sister was diagnosed with incurable cancer, with months, possibly a year or two to live. She had to go on sick leave for the chemo and radiation treatment, etc. After 6 months, her sick pay dropped to 50%, and after a year was due to end. She asked me what was happening with our uncle's estate, this being around 18 months after he died, with the house sold 6 months previously. I had received no updates, so she sent a facebook message to our cousin who was dealing with the estate, asking for an update and she described her health/finance situation. To our surprise, our cousin told us that they had given all the money to my aunt, rather than the 1/3 share the law defined.

I was baffled why they'd do this without getting legal documents with our consent first. Before I had a chance to form any further opinion, my cousins blocked my sister on messenger and unfriended her on Facebook. I assume that they think that she has done something so awful that she should be shunned and disowned.

Since then, my sister has had no birthday cards from them or my aunt, and no Christmas cards so far, whereas they've carried on liking my family updates on facebook, and have sent me cheery Christmas cards which arrived a couple of days ago. My sister is dwelling on the idea that they've lied on the probate forms, pretending that our mother never existed.

I just feel queasy and sick about it, how can I carry on as normal with them, or visit them at Christmas, even though my sister has told me she doesn't want this to oblige me to distance myself.
I want to explain to them how upsetting this has been, I've lost lots of sleep over this over the past few months, but now Christmas is coming, I feel I should say something, surely if I don't it will look like tacit agreement that I agree with their actions.

I was thinking of writing to my cousin, telling them how unhappy and sad this makes me feel. I feel that they have been so unfair in acting as if my sister has done something wrong, whereas they did not tell us what they planned (hence us having to ask for an update), whereas they have in fact committed a criminal offence (which I might not highlight). I had been wishfully imagining that my aunt might be unaware of all this, but then when I woke up too early again today fretting about this, I realised that if she hasn't sent my sister a Christmas card, then she must know all about it.

Initially I had been thinking for months to send a letter explaining how I feel to my cousin. Then after realising that my aunt must know about this, I've been trying to write a letter to send to my aunt this morning, to send with a Christmas card, since she asked how we are in the card she sent to me.
Surely that's the best option. Then I felt ill writing it, then decided to ask for advice here.

I definitely can't just carry on as normal, and I don't think I can say nothing.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Crikeyalmighty · 16/12/2024 13:22

The relationship is dead-so solicitors it is

WearyAuldWumman · 16/12/2024 13:22

Jinglesomeoftheway · 16/12/2024 13:20

Stop being a pushover and contact a solicitor. It won't end nicely regardless, so there's no point trying to be a people pleaser at this stage.

Look out and advocate for yourself.

Agreed. The relationship with the relatives is already over.

Jinglesomeoftheway · 16/12/2024 13:20

Stop being a pushover and contact a solicitor. It won't end nicely regardless, so there's no point trying to be a people pleaser at this stage.

Look out and advocate for yourself.

SidhuVicious · 16/12/2024 13:19

Wow, they're real CFs if they're pissed off with OPs sister for asking. Either that or they're trying to nip this in the bud. They're not your friends OP. I'd be getting legal advice. Of course they don't want you to rock the boat but what kind of relationship is it really if they're onky cool with you so long as you don't question their attempts to defraud you?

pimplebum · 16/12/2024 13:19

I think you have to brace yourself for two things
end of relationship and or no money
very bad for you sick sister really cruel

Dotto · 16/12/2024 13:18

CherryFlan · 16/12/2024 13:04

They don't and it isn't.

Have you dealt with the probate courts yourself?

Another2Cats · 16/12/2024 13:17

CheeseSandwich2 · 16/12/2024 12:53

I’m a bit confused as to why the sister wouldn’t be the NOK as my father in law was in the exact same situation recently. His sister died a spinster with no children. She’d never made a will and her estate has passed to him. How is that any different?

It's not that the sister isn't NOK it's that there is more than one NOK (even if some of them are already dead they are still counted as NOK)

How things work in England & Wales where a person dies without a will is that the money will first go to the spouse and/or any children or grandchildren.

After that it goes to the parents and then it goes to the siblings.

In the case of siblings (and children of the deceased) if they happen to die before the person without a will then, if they have children themselves, their children will benefit in place of the sibling.

So, in your situation, if your FIL and sister had another sibling but they had died before the sister then that sibling's children would be entitled to a half share of the estate left by his sister.

This is what has happened in the OP's case. There were two sisters and two brothers (I believe). One brother and sister (the OP's mum) had already passed away.

When the brother without a will died his NOK were his three siblings. Since two of those siblings had already died, their share of the inheritance is passed to any children of that sibling.

skyeisthelimit · 16/12/2024 13:15

OP, there are a lot of incorrect comments on this post saying that everything should go to your aunt.

If somebody dies without a will, and if the money is due to go to the siblings , then the share of the deceased sibling goes to their children.

I would get some basic legal advice and then write to the administrator with the basic legal facts and ask why this clear intestacy legislation was not followed.

FancyFran · 16/12/2024 13:14

If your cousins husband is aware of this fraud he could be struck off. SRA should be informed
A PP has linked the rules on inheritance from the government website. All siblings hold an equal share. If they are deceased it goes to the issue (children) of that sibling. It does not revert to a remaining sibling. This is outright theft.
I would check your home insurance for legal cover. It's usually at £50k for family matters. You have to have a 51% chance of winning any action for them to appoint a solicitor. Yours is a slam dunk. I read law (35 years ago) and my family are solicitors. I've been an executor many times.
To steel from a dying family member is disgusting.
Get the money for you and your sister. They have good jobs and should be ashamed of theirselves.

WearyAuldWumman · 16/12/2024 13:13

Another2Cats · 16/12/2024 12:58

"(including anything that was said and done before or after your uncle's death that may have changed the default position)"

That's an interesting comment. What sort of thing might cause that to happen? Especially after death?

Are you thinking about something like a "deathbed will"?

The only thing that I can think of would be a deed of variation, but that surely only applies when there's a will and I think that all beneficiaries have to be signatories?

When my husband died, he hadn't included his grandchild in his will, but he told me what he wanted them to get. Legally, that money could only come out of my share of the estate as a gift from me, so that's what I did: signed a cheque from my share of the estate and asked the solicitor to send a letter saying that this cheque was being sent as per their grandfather's verbal instruction.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 16/12/2024 13:13

mugglewump · 16/12/2024 13:04

If someone dies intestate, the estate goes to the next of kin, which assumably was your aunt. This is what has happened, rather than your cousin arbitrarily choosing for the estate to go to his mother. Perhaps he felt that it was too much hassle to fight to change it to a different distribution, as well as feeling guilty that this is what the law decreed and he couldn't be bothered to try to contest it. If you want to contest it, you can either ask your aunt to bequeath part of that estate to you in her will, or ask her for a gift now (assuming she will live for more than 7 years, otherwise only £3k is allowed as a gift). The only other alternative is a costly battle through the courts where you will have to prove that it was your uncle wish for his estate to be divided equally between his nieces and nephews. I am not sure how easy this would be.

As for your aunt and cousin giving you the cold shoulder, this could be partly guilt or fear of confrontation. The whole inheritance thing is awful IMO, I think it would be much better if everyone's estate went to the state, so these kind of very common family disputes didn't happen anymore. If this sounds crazy, my mother died before my grandmother, and my aunt had her mother change her will to leave her fairly sizable estate to her only, rather than split my mothers half between my sisters and me. We had a choice, fight it, hate it or accept it. I chose to accept because I didn't want the stress of the fight and I didn't think it was fair on my deceased family members to create rancoeur with our relatives. However, I do wish that we were never put in this situation and I am secretly pleased that my aunt's farm will be subject to inherritance tax now!!!

Please don't give incorrect advice.

If someone dies intestate without leaving a spouse, children or living parents, their estate is shared between their siblings, and if any siblings have predeceased them, that sibling's share goes to their children. The OP and her sister are entitled to the share that would have gone to their mother if she were still alive. Her cousin doesn't get to just arbitrarily decide otherwise.

CherryFlan · 16/12/2024 13:12

Bunnycat101 · 16/12/2024 13:09

It is baffling how so many people can say something so wrong with such certainty. You see it on here all the time but I’d have thought people would have the sense not to make statements re legal matters they don’t have the foggiest clue on.

I agree.

@NeshButUpNorth - do not take anything you read on here as accurate advice. Much of it isn't, and you have no way of knowing which is which!

ThatRareUmberJoker · 16/12/2024 13:11

Bunnycat101 · 16/12/2024 13:07

If the executor is in a legal field they’ve been bloody stupid as fraud could obviously end their career. In the scheme of things, £30k doesn’t seem worth the risk or the family fall out. I’d have thought there would be some movement following a carefully worded letter as I can’t see they’d want to risk their entire career.

Your relationship is dead- stop trying to find a gentle middle way. You’ll never look at them in the same way again.

Op needs to report cousins spouse.

3luckystars · 16/12/2024 13:09

Relationship is over. Get a good solicitor and sue them. Good luck.

Bunnycat101 · 16/12/2024 13:09

It is baffling how so many people can say something so wrong with such certainty. You see it on here all the time but I’d have thought people would have the sense not to make statements re legal matters they don’t have the foggiest clue on.

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 13:09

Bunnycat101 · 16/12/2024 13:07

If the executor is in a legal field they’ve been bloody stupid as fraud could obviously end their career. In the scheme of things, £30k doesn’t seem worth the risk or the family fall out. I’d have thought there would be some movement following a carefully worded letter as I can’t see they’d want to risk their entire career.

Your relationship is dead- stop trying to find a gentle middle way. You’ll never look at them in the same way again.

I was astounded as well, fraud would be stupid

OP posts:
NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 13:08

mugglewump · 16/12/2024 13:04

If someone dies intestate, the estate goes to the next of kin, which assumably was your aunt. This is what has happened, rather than your cousin arbitrarily choosing for the estate to go to his mother. Perhaps he felt that it was too much hassle to fight to change it to a different distribution, as well as feeling guilty that this is what the law decreed and he couldn't be bothered to try to contest it. If you want to contest it, you can either ask your aunt to bequeath part of that estate to you in her will, or ask her for a gift now (assuming she will live for more than 7 years, otherwise only £3k is allowed as a gift). The only other alternative is a costly battle through the courts where you will have to prove that it was your uncle wish for his estate to be divided equally between his nieces and nephews. I am not sure how easy this would be.

As for your aunt and cousin giving you the cold shoulder, this could be partly guilt or fear of confrontation. The whole inheritance thing is awful IMO, I think it would be much better if everyone's estate went to the state, so these kind of very common family disputes didn't happen anymore. If this sounds crazy, my mother died before my grandmother, and my aunt had her mother change her will to leave her fairly sizable estate to her only, rather than split my mothers half between my sisters and me. We had a choice, fight it, hate it or accept it. I chose to accept because I didn't want the stress of the fight and I didn't think it was fair on my deceased family members to create rancoeur with our relatives. However, I do wish that we were never put in this situation and I am secretly pleased that my aunt's farm will be subject to inherritance tax now!!!

there was no will to fight or argue about, English Law states 1/3 share to be divided between me and my sister

OP posts:
LondonLawyer · 16/12/2024 13:08

Maddy70 · 16/12/2024 11:38

Without a will it goes to the next of kin ...his sister

Always amazes me how people confidently give legal advice which is absolutely incorrect. There are standard intestacy rules in England & Wales.

There's a nice handy guide here:

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

Intestacy - who inherits if someone dies without a will?

Find out who is entitled to a share of someone’s property, possessions and money if they die without making a will

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 13:08

CheeseSandwich2 · 16/12/2024 12:53

I’m a bit confused as to why the sister wouldn’t be the NOK as my father in law was in the exact same situation recently. His sister died a spinster with no children. She’d never made a will and her estate has passed to him. How is that any different?

Was your FIL her only sibling?

if that is the case then what happened is correct.

If there were other siblings then it wasn’t correct. Assuming you’re also in England where the Op is.

CherryFlan · 16/12/2024 13:07

Another2Cats · 16/12/2024 12:58

"(including anything that was said and done before or after your uncle's death that may have changed the default position)"

That's an interesting comment. What sort of thing might cause that to happen? Especially after death?

Are you thinking about something like a "deathbed will"?

Before death - (short of a will) something giving rise to a claim under the Inheritance (Family and Dependants) Act 1975, for example some form of financial support given to someone.

After death - a deed executed by someone entitled under the intestacy rules waiving their rights.

Bunnycat101 · 16/12/2024 13:07

If the executor is in a legal field they’ve been bloody stupid as fraud could obviously end their career. In the scheme of things, £30k doesn’t seem worth the risk or the family fall out. I’d have thought there would be some movement following a carefully worded letter as I can’t see they’d want to risk their entire career.

Your relationship is dead- stop trying to find a gentle middle way. You’ll never look at them in the same way again.

WearyAuldWumman · 16/12/2024 13:06

AuntyEntropy · 16/12/2024 13:00

Did they have any other siblings/nieces/nephews though?

If you die with no parents/spouse/children/ grandchildren then your estate is split between your siblings in equal shares. If any of them are already dead then their children get their parent's share.

Edited

Yes. My late husband didn't die intestate but in Scotland there are certain legal rights no matter what is in a will. (It's rather different in England and Wales.)

Under Scots law, people have 20 years in which to claim their legal rights. If they die without doing this, then their heirs have the time that remains in which to make their claim.

I would hope that English law also allows people a decent length of time in which to claim against an estate.

ARichtGoodDram · 16/12/2024 13:06

mugglewump · 16/12/2024 13:04

If someone dies intestate, the estate goes to the next of kin, which assumably was your aunt. This is what has happened, rather than your cousin arbitrarily choosing for the estate to go to his mother. Perhaps he felt that it was too much hassle to fight to change it to a different distribution, as well as feeling guilty that this is what the law decreed and he couldn't be bothered to try to contest it. If you want to contest it, you can either ask your aunt to bequeath part of that estate to you in her will, or ask her for a gift now (assuming she will live for more than 7 years, otherwise only £3k is allowed as a gift). The only other alternative is a costly battle through the courts where you will have to prove that it was your uncle wish for his estate to be divided equally between his nieces and nephews. I am not sure how easy this would be.

As for your aunt and cousin giving you the cold shoulder, this could be partly guilt or fear of confrontation. The whole inheritance thing is awful IMO, I think it would be much better if everyone's estate went to the state, so these kind of very common family disputes didn't happen anymore. If this sounds crazy, my mother died before my grandmother, and my aunt had her mother change her will to leave her fairly sizable estate to her only, rather than split my mothers half between my sisters and me. We had a choice, fight it, hate it or accept it. I chose to accept because I didn't want the stress of the fight and I didn't think it was fair on my deceased family members to create rancoeur with our relatives. However, I do wish that we were never put in this situation and I am secretly pleased that my aunt's farm will be subject to inherritance tax now!!!

The aunt may very well have been his next of kin - who he named if he was in hospital etc.

That has nothing to do with the distribution of intestacy in England (where the OP confirmed she is).

Nothing at all

Zilla1 · 16/12/2024 13:05

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 12:35

I have a copy of the grant of probate, the estate admins are my cousin+spouse, my cousin told my sister that all the cash has already been sent to my aunt "as next of kin".

Thank you. Executor is a legal position so when you say estate admins, do you mean executors or is estate admin a meaningful role?

Did the cousins send a message or letter that is evidenceable or was your sister 'told' face to face or by telephone?

'Cash' might be deliberately misleading if there was any other types of property that had value.

Perhaps draft a non-confrontational letter for your sister to send along the lines of '

Thank you for the update concerning Uncle X's estate saying that 'all the cash has already been passed to Aunt Y. Why have you passed the proceeds to Aunt Y? I'd be grateful for an estimate by when you think the estate will be settled and the proceeds fully distributed along with the relevant records.'

Next step if they don't get the message will be to ask if the cousin's husband has used has used his employers to help him in his executor's duties? That will tell them his employment and possibly his professional future is in play.

Good luck.

NeshButUpNorth · 16/12/2024 13:05

FizzyBisto · 16/12/2024 12:53

To be fair to these despicable people, they may not have necessarily lied about the existence of OP's Mum, IF they cited their own mother as next of kin.

Next of kin can be a slightly woolly term, legally speaking, but it is generally understood to refer to a living member of the family - so I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that she is the NoK.

This isn't just about next of kin, though; it's about legally-prescribed inheritance rights - the two are frequently not the same.

Have a look at the P1A1 form, which teases out details of kin - there is no room for a narrative to be asserted

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread