Part 2 Sara Sharif case-update-horrifying

That’s a bizarre way of looking at things.

Ultimately they are British and are likely victims of abuse, to the extent that 1 sibling was already put in care and 1 sibling was murdered. They are only in Pakistan due to their parents trying to evade capture. It wouldn’t be a good look for the UK government to ignore these children who could potentially be in Pakistan against their will and want to return to the UK but are trapped in abuse again. If more of these kids die, there will be further controversy to the government for failing them again. It’s more nuanced than you think. You need to consider them as innocent children, removing their citizenship would be heinous

The judge himself was very concerned about the way that Sara was able to just vanish from society by dint of home schooling.

Urfan called the school on the first day of the school year saying she would be home schooled and he was not challenged even once by authorities.

For the vast majority of people who genuinely home school their children this would be fine but with his history it was a missed opportunity.

I’m not sure she loved her kids that much, the way she swore at them at school pick up is not normal.

But yes, I think she will feel aggrieved because in her head Urfan did it all.

Why were the injuries reported by the school not followed up over a longer period? I've read the safeguarding case raised by the teachers was closed within 6 days. And whilst I agree home schooling should be denied in this circumstance, you can't force parents to bring the child in and I hardly think she'd have been so much safer if she only spent 3/4 of every day at home and 1/4 in school. If they thought it was 'unsafe' for her to be home 24 hours a day, why the hell would it be ok to be there 18 hours a day (school is about 6 hours)?

Do we really think the type of people who will kill a child will care about attendance letters? Plenty of children are 'on roll' and not in school in reality and at risk.

I really think the homeschooling issue is such a red herring, but a useful political distraction away from the real failings. When a child has unexplained injuries and then parents homeschool there should be consistent and frequent social worker involvement. The issue is the failings of the safeguarding system and that no-one is following up regularly, and teachers are not the ones to do this. They did the right thing and seem to have been effectively ignored by social services.

And some parents homeschool to safeguard their children from the fact the school expects their assaulted / harassed child to continue to attend a school where their attackers / abusers still attend too. I have a horrible feeling they are using this tragic case as a way to just ban homeschooling. Who gets to define 'vulnerable'? For some children the school is where the abuse is happening.

Shes probably more at risk of coming to harm then the 2 men. Womens prisons arent categorised the same as mens. They are either open or closed. Dont forget a lot of women there have been separated from their kids and have been abused themselves.

How do I know his location.... well people have to work in such places put it that way

Depends what you mean by “beasts” - she’s not in with prisoners who will attack her due to the nature of her crimes. She’s in with fellow child killers who therefore won’t bat an eyelid.

It might happen! If the kids stay in Pakistan with Sharif’s family, I doubt they will ever give her access. If I were her, I’d be scared of visiting considering Sharif’s dad blamed her solely for Sara’s death…

If her kids are placed in UK foster care, chances are they may not even remember her or their past. The twins with developmental disorder are 8, followed by a 6 and 2 year old.

Either way, she’ll be 60+ when released, perhaps her kids won’t want a relationship as adults!

Thanks for that.

I really expected they’d both be segregated from others. Certainly in my experience with a murderer (high profile case in Scotland in the last few years), he had to be alone as they thought he wouldn’t be safe even in the unit with the beasts.

It's a shame that we have to pay to keep them alive.

I think the greatest punishment for Batool will be, and I hope this happens, if she can never see her children again.

The source at Category A Bronzefield prison, near Ashford, said: "Beinash is also friends with Michelle and Sharon. They all live in house block four which is a really nice wing.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1988800/sara-sharif-stepmother-is-lucy-letby-friend/amp

@JustCrow me too. I used to passionately argue against it but I can't think of one reason why this man needs to live and we pay for the pleasure.

I find that hard to believe but if you want to share how you know this..?

This is correct. Specifically on Houseblock 4. Not the seg.

People spout so much shit on here

I’ve changed my mind about capital punishment because of this case.

There is no way they aren’t guilty. It was them. There will be no new evidence ever emerging to say that someone else was to blame.

They need to be put down.

@Cruiser123 not what the press has said. The articles refer to the last social work report missing that history and questioning whether that meant the social worker had access to it.

The arrangement for Sara to be with dad seems to have started off as an arrangement between the parents, ie NOT that she was removed from mum to be given to dad. Dad had Sara in his care and applied to have her full time. In which case it seems possible it would have been a section 7 report not care proceedings - which would mean a very different process and different level of scrutiny

Is this information public knowledge? Just wondering how you know.

Usually prisoners like them are isolated in the sense of being kept in their cells for the vast majority of the day. It's only those who are exceptionally dangerous who are housed completely separately. Space in prisons is at a premium!

No she's not. She's in Bronzefield

But this case isn't about information shared or an overworked social worker.

All the information about Sharif’s previous abuse against women and children was available to the social worker.

She/He just chose to ignore it - the social worker saw no transferable risk to Sara.

Which is quite astonishing considering that some women's babies are removed to potential FUTURE risk of harm. Cases where nothing even has happened yet.

Completely wrong. They are on a sex offender wing . They are not in the segregation unit or isolated. They have been in the same location since they went in prison on remand

@SovietSpy I'm baffled how you could read my posts and say you're not sure if you think I believe the system works?

Also, directors of children's services aren't the ones making the day to day decisions. It's an important, but very different, role. It's unusual that it is one of the few roles that don't require a social work qualification, though the majority do. Those that don't have to have someone advising them who is social work qualified, in order to do the post.

I've made multiple posts in these threads that in order for the system to be improved, as a society we need to value and prioritise safeguarding, which means paying for it. The system needs to be much bigger than it is currently in order to do the job that is required. The support systems - family support services, services for children with disabilities, children's mental health services - need to be properly supported, as without them, child protection workers can't work effectively.

Everyone in the system knows what they'd want to be doing - being curious, spending time with children, having the headspace to really unpick what is going on, effectively sharing information with other professionals - but the system doesn't allow for it. And telling people what they should be doing, as though that will magically allow it to happen, is meaningless and demoralising.

I know you mean well but the problem is when these horrific cases happen, change is suggested but then everyone emerges to protect ‘the system’ and claim it can’t be changed.

i can’t tell from your remarks whether you think it all works dandy or not. But there will be an enquiry and then nothing will change because the people at the top don’t actually think there are any problems or they are remunerated for saving money rather than saving children.

Rachael Wardell is the Director of children’s services in Surrey. She’s never worked as a social worker. She has a degree from Oxford. I’m sure she’s very clever but does she truly get on the shop floor to see the worst of these people who are neglecting and abusing their kids? Doubt it. She’s under pressure to giver her OBE back. As yet again the system rewards those who preside over failure.