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Pathetic Fallacy - is this a "thing"

447 replies

marmia1234 · 15/12/2024 07:50

My sons English report came home ( disclaimers: not in UK and I have a degree in English Literature)
In one section of the test they had to match a quote to its corresponding technique. For example - simile, imagery, metaphor, personification etc. One of those techniques was "pathetic fallacy" . I am flummoxed. Is this a normal thing I just missed somehow? Once he had a stab at which one was the "pathetic fallacy he was stuffed and only got 4 right out of 7 as was a bit discombobulated. Is this a common term in the UK or US
I have googled and it appears to be a version of personification.
Why is it pathetic?
Trying to add poll but seem to be unable.
YABU - everybody knows the term "Pathetic fallacy"
YANBU - WTF nobody has heard of that

OP posts:
SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 15/12/2024 18:57

'Pathetic fallacy' rings the vaguest of bells. I remember it in relation to a poem about a child waking at night and going into 'the snoring passage'. Rather nice.

cardibach · 15/12/2024 18:56

Mooetenchante · 15/12/2024 13:39

I'm not saying that the student should name the technique for marks.
But I am saying that students are made way more aware of the mark scheme and how to apply it in the exam . So its possible to go into the exam without any genuine appreciation of the book or play that has been studied and get a good grade.

You have to have a good appreciation o the effects created and the techniques used to create them, which is what the exam is testing. There has never been a requirement to ‘appreciate’ the text. I hated the text I got my best mark for in my degree.

cardibach · 15/12/2024 18:54

Calliopespa · 15/12/2024 11:37

It implies it insofar as the verb used is generally one of emotion: wept, raged etc.

The usage is figurative: it isn’t intended to lead the reader to believe the emotion is actually being experienced by the inanimate subject.

Not necessarily. It’s still pathetic fallacy if the rain just…rains while the character weeps.

cardibach · 15/12/2024 18:53

WhimsicalGubbins76 · 15/12/2024 11:36

To be personification, the waves would have to be “crashing onto the shore” for example.
Pathetic fallacy is a form of personification, but it’s specifically about emotion. Anger is an emotion, and I have used no action in the description. Whereas above, the word “crashing”, is not emotive so it becomes personification

No they wouldnt. Inanimate things can crash. Personification is giving them their own human emotions. Pathetic fallacy is showing them reflecting the emotions of humans.

ArtfulBee · 15/12/2024 18:15

MyLadyGreensleeves · 15/12/2024 09:40

Knowing the correct term and applying it would save a lot of verbosity when trying to explain something.

I know those who have received a poor education have to try and justify it and that's fine-after all, they have probably paid through the nose for the equivalent of a second hand Skoda- and so I will say no more.

I know the term from secondary school, and went on to get an English Lit degree.

My view is that pathetic fallacy is generally one of the first literary terms that children are taught but it's such a simple and common concept that you don't hear it used much at higher levels of education. It feels a little trite to mention.

Appalonia · 15/12/2024 17:17

I learnt this in 1982 when we studied Thomas Hardy at A Level!

ArtfulBee · 15/12/2024 17:13

Yes, definitely came up at GCSE and A-level in the 90s.

ChiliFiend · 15/12/2024 17:12

Surely it's fairly obvious that "pathetic" is a reference to pathos? I don't know what the term means, am not an English teacher etc but that part is pretty clear to me.

OPsSockpuppet · 15/12/2024 17:07

ProvincialLady24 · 15/12/2024 14:49

Used this a lot in my GCSE MacBeth paper.

I hope you spelled Macbeth correctly in the paper 😂

SnakesAndArrows · 15/12/2024 17:04

Calliopespa · 15/12/2024 16:12

Pathetically fallacious?!

Ha! Quite.

BruisedNeckMeat · 15/12/2024 17:02

I only recently realised this is the term. I thought it was prophetic fallacy which makes more sense to me!

PhotoDad · 15/12/2024 16:52

@MaxJLHardy I referenced that upthread and nobody bit! 😀

MaxJLHardy · 15/12/2024 16:50

So this isn't what Effie Gray said to Ruskin on their wedding night?

Calliopespa · 15/12/2024 16:12

SnakesAndArrows · 15/12/2024 16:05

If you are familiar with the term, then of course you would. But if you are not, you don’t need to. I know this to be true because I learned the term some 40 years after I studied WH for A level English, and not knowing the term had no deleterious effect on my performance.

Previous and remarkably condescending posters imply that one cannot even discuss EB’s use of weather as symbolism without knowing the term, which is… fallacious.

Pathetically fallacious?!

Calliopespa · 15/12/2024 16:12

Cm19841 · 15/12/2024 15:49

Yes it is.

Why would you not google this before starting a thread here?

I think because she meant is this something other posters know about.

SnakesAndArrows · 15/12/2024 16:05

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 15/12/2024 14:32

Nor is it necessary to use the word 'irony' when discussing the first sentence of Pride and Prejudice, but given that it's an excellent example of it, why wouldn't you?

If you are familiar with the term, then of course you would. But if you are not, you don’t need to. I know this to be true because I learned the term some 40 years after I studied WH for A level English, and not knowing the term had no deleterious effect on my performance.

Previous and remarkably condescending posters imply that one cannot even discuss EB’s use of weather as symbolism without knowing the term, which is… fallacious.

Lancrelady80 · 15/12/2024 15:54

Flourshiba · 15/12/2024 08:02

Yes, this is also my understanding of PF

Yep. Primary schools using Jane Considine for writing teach children this certainly from Y3 onwards. We've all seen it in movies - thunder and lightning when a shot is shown of Dracula's castle, pouring rain when a character is heartbroken etc. It's just the term is becoming more well-known now.

Cm19841 · 15/12/2024 15:49

Yes it is.

Why would you not google this before starting a thread here?

ProvincialLady24 · 15/12/2024 14:49

Loungingbutnotforlong · 15/12/2024 07:52

Pathetic fallacy is when the weather matches the characters mood and situation e.g. the character is going through a tumultuous time and things are bleak for them-the weather might be dark sky/ stormy/ heavy rain.

Used this a lot in my GCSE MacBeth paper.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 15/12/2024 14:34

MissBattleaxe · 15/12/2024 13:46

It's not that I was not taught this technique, but it was referred to as symbolism, imagery, metaphor etc. Of course it was studied. We did the Victorians, Shakespeare ( King Lear is a perfect example), 20th century, Austen, Restoration drama, Hardy and many others. This was Exeter University in 1988. I just don't recall that term being used. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but I am pretty sure my honours degree is still valid without having used those two exact words.

You can't study King Lear without writing about the symbolism of the storm scene.

Sorry, double post.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 15/12/2024 14:34

MissBattleaxe · 15/12/2024 13:46

It's not that I was not taught this technique, but it was referred to as symbolism, imagery, metaphor etc. Of course it was studied. We did the Victorians, Shakespeare ( King Lear is a perfect example), 20th century, Austen, Restoration drama, Hardy and many others. This was Exeter University in 1988. I just don't recall that term being used. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but I am pretty sure my honours degree is still valid without having used those two exact words.

You can't study King Lear without writing about the symbolism of the storm scene.

Did you mean to quote me? Your comment seems irrelevant to mine.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 15/12/2024 14:32

SnakesAndArrows · 15/12/2024 13:42

It is not necessary to use the term “pathetic fallacy” when discussing Emily Brontë’s use of the weather to reflect her characters’ emotional state.

Nor is it necessary to use the word 'irony' when discussing the first sentence of Pride and Prejudice, but given that it's an excellent example of it, why wouldn't you?

CasperGutman · 15/12/2024 14:29

GretchenWienersHair · 15/12/2024 14:08

Is this an AI post? You have just explained what I already said, in much greater depth (unnecessarily?)

Not AI, honestly. I set out to disagree with you as I thought pathetic fallacy had to be a device intentionally used by an author and inherent in the words they used ascribing emotions to the weather. But as I wrote I realised you were right and I was wrong, as the fallacy could be in the mind of the reader whether the writer meant it to be there or not, hence the digression into symbolism more generally and whether it comes from writers or from readers.

I don't think further discussion was entirely unwarranted. There seem to be lots of people on here who think pathetic fallacy is always related to weather. Your post seemed in danger of giving the opposite idea, that any discussion of weather is pathetic fallacy. Neither of these is true.

TL;DR: basically I just got a bit carried away!

GrammarTeacher · 15/12/2024 14:20

greenleathertrousers · 15/12/2024 11:32

That's good to know. I'm taking my experience of the people in their thirties that I work with, which is obviously a limited number of people. I just think my children (17,20,23) seem to be better educated.

I'm 46 now. Somewhat distressingly many of the students I've taught are in their 30s. Including some born in 1988! They were all taught pathetic fallacy.
It didn't suddenly disappear/reappear, it's just some people either weren't taught it or haven't remembered it.
There's lots that I was taught that I can't remember.

MissBattleaxe · 15/12/2024 14:11

SnakesAndArrows · 15/12/2024 13:42

It is not necessary to use the term “pathetic fallacy” when discussing Emily Brontë’s use of the weather to reflect her characters’ emotional state.

Exactly.

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