AIBU? Boyfriends Christmas Night out

@possibleusername

I don't think you answered this previously, so asking again:

How many times does a man need to continue sexually touching his partner when she says no for you to consider it sexual assault?

He touches her.
She says no.
He continues.
She says no.
He continues.
She says no.
He continues.

Is that enough?

How many times constitutes sexual assault to you?

All things considered, I think you should ask him to leave today, take all his stuff and explain exactly why just as you have here - a factual account of what happened. Say you will be in contact when you are ready to talk. Then that's it, just give yourself a bit of time to process everything completely separate from him.

Can the OP address the questions in my first message please?

She doesn’t owe you an answer, particularly when you’ve said she is over reacting to a man who is supposed to love her sexually assaulting her.

@possibleusername

That should have said:

If the answer to the first question is no and the second question is yes (and it can't be anything else) then you agree he sexually assaulted her, by definition.

You don't need a consent form to be clear about consent when someone, like the OP, has literally said, out loud, "I am not consenting to this."

Do you believe she consented to him touching her sexually despite her telling him she didn't?

Do you believe he continued to touch her sexually despite her telling him she didn't consent?

If the answer to both of those is yes (and it can't be anything else) then you agree he sexually assaulted her, by definition.

Maybe the bit where he repeatedly intimately touches her whilst she says no?
That is sexual assault.

Ah ok.

It makes sense now.

"Sometimes" you just hug instead? What about the other times? You say no repeatedly, he continues to try and eventually you stop saying no and have sex even though you didn't want to have sex?

That's sexual coercion.

I'm sorry that your partner is sexually coercive but it's depressing that due to that experience you are minimising and dismissing the sexual assault of someone else.

**do you ant them to fill
a consent form or apply on line? Don't be ridiculous. Real loving couple don't debate whether to have sex or not. We are humans and spontaneously showing attraction and lust is completely normal!

I want them to be sure I’ve consented either through the words and language I use, or my actions inviting them to have sex or my body language clearly responding positively to their advances. Spontaneous attraction and lust are obviously completely normal. Continuing to touch someone when they have clearly communicated they don’t want you to continue isn’t.

Women don’t owe men sex, they don’t need to continue with something they don’t want, and the whole “she said no but wanted it” is straight out of the rape apologist handbook.

She explicitly said no to him sexually touching her. Repeatedly.

He continued to sexually touch her after she repeatedly, explicitly said no.

And you don't view that as sexual assault?

@whathaveiforgotten. Sometime we just hug instead and he slightly complains.

He's going to destroy your self worth bit by bit. He's disrespectful of your boundaries, imposes himself on you all the time, and is now violating your person. Honestly, please tell me the relationship is over?

Ah there it is. Rape apologists are usually either perpetrators or victims trying to rationalise their own experiences. I'm sorry you have experienced this.

What a lot of shit that last statement is.

Remember. She said drinking and drunk men triggers an emotional reaction in her, so it is reasonable she did not take his advances as straightforward invitation to sex, but it doesn't mean he raped her either.

She asked him to stop, repeatedly, and he didn’t. She had to state that she wasn’t consenting to him continuing to touch her, and he tried to continue. What is your definition of sexual assault and rape, because it seems to be at odds with the law.

@Jellycatspyjamas do you ant them to fill
a consent form or apply on line? Don't be ridiculous. Real loving couple don't debate whether to have sex or not. We are humans and spontaneously showing attraction and lust is completely normal!

No, it's not only up to the OP to determine if it was rape. If a man tries to have sex with someone who has made it clear verbally or otherwise that they don't consent then that is rape. Factually. It doesn't matter if she normally likes being bitten, tonight she didn't consent. He knew that.

Of course sexual advances if you aren't in the mood are not rape. But the part where the man carries on and refuses to stop when the other person says no - that's what makes it rape. HTH.

Did he continue to touch you sexually after you said no?

But generally I am curious if many on here feel that every time their partner - considered his a loving man and act reasonably - try to initiate sex in bed while you are not in the mood, considered as rape?

If my partner initiated sex and I said no, he’d stop. Immediately.

I say 'no' to my partner many times. I never felt he was trying to rape me.

(Warning - Sleeping naked near any man in a loving relationship can trigger a drive for sex!)

Any man in a loving relationship would ensure they had enthusiastic consent before trying to have sex, they wouldn’t ignore someone repeatedly saying no and bite them. FFS, where are your standards.

From the part where she said no and he carried on? You are disgusting

he basically moved himself into my home within months of dating and I’d to tell him to move himself out. He was previously staying with family. He has since bought his own place in recent months and I can count on one hand the amount of nights he’s spent in it.

So been together a year. He didn't have a place so was sofa surfing with family

Tried to move in with you by stealth

And then managed to save enough for a deposit , find and buy a place in a few months which he rarely stays at

Have you been to his house - does it exist ?

Seems weird he bought it but stays all the time at yours I

@Alessoutingname I’ve no issues with him consuming alcohol or being drunk and very much expected him to be

but why? You already said you are triggered by drunk men (so am I, several alcoholics in my life including an ex husband, I am zero tolerance) and he has his own house, AND you said recently you discussed that he spend too much time at yours. So why did you agree for him to come back to yours when you knew he would be drunk? What's in it for you in any way? You've been railroaded again into agreeing to what he wants. Why? How can you see this relationship as a good one even before he tried to rape you?

Can we give the rape apology a miss please. She didn't want to have any kind of sex, rough or otherwise. And men might get 'triggered' for sex but it's always their responsibility not to try to rape the woman they happen to be close to at that time.