Page 5 | To feel sad that noone seems to care

Feelingsad1987 · 2024-12-14T01:54:15+00:00

Just feeling really sad. This is pointless and just a rant, really. Just had a difficult situation tonight. My partner is living in supportive accommodation. The staff are meant to make sure he takes his medication but they've not been doing so. Consequently he is now in psychosis. Got an appointment for him on Wednesday with the psychiatrist. However, this afternoon he ended up being verbally aggressive to another resident. The police were called who just said 'there's nothing we can do'. My partner then ended up at mine very confused and agitated. Said he was never going back to his accommodation as so paranoid and deluded about what is happening there. Then left mine refusing to say where he was going. I was very concerned about his welfare and the danger to other people so I phoned the police explained the situation and explained he needed to be found and taken to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can't do anything and I need to phone the ambulance. So I phone the ambulance who explain I need to phone the police as they can't drive around searching for him, but once the police find him they will attend. They tell me the police policy to quote to the police to convince them to help. So this time they take all the details. A few hours later they phoned me back to say the 'inspector' wouldn't do anything as I had to do "all my checks' I asked what that meant. I had to speak to all his family and friends. I said that I had of course spoken to his mum and sister, they'd not seen him, but would call the police if he turned up there. He has no friends. I was then told his mum and sister have to do 'their checks'. I asked what they meant. I was told they needed to speak to all his family and friends. I explained again that he has no friends and his only family is his mum and sister. He is not with them. While this was happening he turned up at mine again and was very agitated and ran off when he realised I was talking to someone about him. 'We'll close things now that he's back home...' I explained this wasn't his home and that he'd ran off and he was still psychotic and dangerous. 'We can't do anything, we don't know where he is...' I told them the road he would be on after leaving mine. They then told me that I should be going out looking for him. I told them I have children so wasn't able to do that. They then told me I shouldn't have let him leave. Were really nasty about it. Said if he came back to keep him there. A couple more hours then they phone me back to tell me they aren't going to do anything as they have spoken to the 'nurse' at his supported accommodation and they have said they have no concerns, that he often goes out and will be back by 11. I have to explain to the police there are no nurses it is a carer with no expertise in mental health. And one who clearly had no handover as they certainly had concerns when he was being aggressive to another resident. I also have to explain again he has said he will not go back there. The police tell me well 'they've let him out' so he must be ok. I have to explain to them it is supported accommodation not prison and he is free to come and go, there is no mechanism for them to not 'let him out'. 'Well, we can't do anything. If he comes back you need to keep him here and phone an ambulance. I explain I'm frightened of letting him in he is highly likely to hurt me. 'Oh well, anyone might hurt you, you don't know he's going to.' He turns up again. I let him in and manage to calm him and explain I need to phone an ambulance. He gets very agitated. I phone the ambulance, they hear my screams and send the police. Police arrive and I explain how unwell he is. I ask them to take him to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can only do that if my partner confirms himself that he is a danger to himself and others. They say they'll drop him at A&E. I ask what to do when he comes back from there...oh well phone us... Not one police officer seemed to care at all. I understand sometimes their hands are tied but they just didn't seem to care atall. And the way they would just confidently state complete rubbish and when you pointed it out it didn't seem to have any impact. It was their way or the highway. No matter how much ignorance it was based on or how much danger people would be put in. It didn't matter to them.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 10:36

VegTrug · 15/12/2024 10:01

Been in a very similar situation with my nephew just two weeks ago and I was STUNNED at the police attitude. The Inspector rang my nephew and “had a chat” with him and then called me back to say he was “Confident he’s fine and was just having a wobble” He’s schizophrenic! He wasn’t having a wobble he was making severe threats to the safety of the public and himself!

Unbelievable. My friend is the manager of a supported living place for people with mental health conditions & learning disabilities and last year he had a resident who was putting the other resident’s lives at risk. As my friend is a mental health professional, in his opinion this man met the requirements for sectioning under the mental health act (friend obviously couldn’t go into too much detail).

Yet even when the resident set the entire BUILDING on fire, with everyone in it, they still wouldn’t Section him and told friend to “take the resident over the border into the next county and then make the call.”
So my friend had to have two staff members (both female as all his staff were that day) restrain him whilst friend drove 30 miles to a disused car park in the next county, just in order to have this poor resident Sectioned. Absolute madness of the highest order.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this right now.

Edited

I'm so sorry to hear that. But sadly I can believe it.

I can quite imagine someone unwell setting a house on fire and the police still arguing the toss as to whether they should attend. If they spent less time shouting at people and arguing they might have more time to do their jobs.

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Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 10:32

Redwinedaze · 15/12/2024 09:58

This and why didn’t you tell the Police who you was when they entered the cafe? They’re not going to announce the name of the person they are there to see to random strangers.

They’re can’t run around looking for someone when their support staff have said there isn’t a problem, and it’s normal for him to be out.

Taking him to A&E was all that could be done, they are not health professional, A&E can section him, Police can’t hold someone for their mental health, they can 136 him but can’t hold him it wouldn’t be fair on him, once sectioned he has to go to a medical facility.

Police seem to be used as a catch all service when others such as mental health services fail, that’s partly why they can no longer proactively Police.

That aside, why are you with him, do you want to be with him or are you trapped in a carer type role.

Show quote history

When you are trying to keep a psychotic person calm, you aren't able to do all these things. It's all very well saying this but once the police have left I'm the person trying to keep myself safe. If he knew I'd phoned 999 I would put myself in danger. Could they have not asked who I was? Could they not have thought I might be asking for a reason?

They can't look for someone who it is 'normal to be out'. I mean it's 'normal' for pretty much everyone to be out. So the police don't need to deal with any crimes/public safety/welfare issues anymore? The police accept there is 'no problem' when they themselves were asked to attend the house due to assault? He then left in an agitated state while they were there. His partner has then seen him in this agitated and aggressive state but instead they will take the word of a minimum wage carer with no training in mental health, who doesn't know my partner and has just come on shift? Surely, the police should engage their brains a little more?

Yes, A&E can section him but an agitated person with psychosis is not going to stay in A&E long enough to be assessed. They will still be a danger to themselves and others. And in fact even more dangerous due to the police agitating them further taking them to A&E.

As you rightly say A&E wasn't all they could do. They could use their powers under 136 where they can indeed section him and take him to a psychiatric unit where he would get the help he needs, be kept safe and keep myself/other family and the general public safe. To not do that is what is unfair to him.

Police are there to keep people safe. That is their job.

Why am I with him? I love him and have a lovely relationship with him usually as he is usually well. I wouldn't say I'm 'trapped' in a carer type role but I do have to support him with some things round his mental health. So called 'supportive' accommodation really does very little.

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Beentheresomanytimes · 15/12/2024 10:26

I'm so desperately sorry to read this OP, and all others who have gone through similar - as my name suggests I sadly know exactly what you're going through and how traumatic it is. I'm really angry for you. My dsibling is no longer with us after decades of this type of situation, but I cannot tell you how many times the police were crucial in finding her and escorting her to a place of safety where she was often sectioned and supported back to health. I think it would have broken me to be coping with these incidents without police support.

The police should never have been able to step back the way they have without a suitable alternative in place. Sorry that's not more practically helpful to you right now but you have my deepest sympathy in coping with this. I think all you can do is raise concern after concern, in writing, to his gp, your gp (the knock on effect of this type of trauma is real, so please look after your own health too) his psychiatric and social care teams, and your mp. Anyone who will listen and take it as high as you can. I think we need more formal complaints raised in order to get these issues addressed - problem being the time and effort it takes when you're in it and coping with the fallout. So many patients and their families are going to suffer long term consequences as a result of there not being adequate powers to find and escort seriously unwell patients to safety.

LakieLady · 15/12/2024 10:18

People do not go into supported accommodation because they are acutely unwell. Normally, he manages his mental health well. It is just because of problems at the house with staff not doing their job.

This is pretty poor practice, OP. I'd take it up with whichever outfit is supposedly running the supported accommodation.

The organisation I work for manages supported accommodation for people with MH issues. It ranges from homes that are staffed 24/7, for people with severe MH issues or recently discharged from hospital, to self-contained properties where they have minimal support but a worker checks in with them at least every 3 months, and they move on to general needs housing once they've been well for a couple of years. All the staff have MH training, and it's pretty comprehensive. They would be more than able to identify if someone's MH was deteriorating, and get MH professionals involved.

I'm afraid that, unless he's subject to a section or a danger to himself or others, the police don't want to know. Even with a section, they're reluctant to get involved.

My DB was detained on a section when the staff thought he was well enough to go into town for a few hours with another patient. They rocked up at my house, 150 miles away, several hours later. The hospital had already been in touch with my parents and told them to call the police if he turned up, and said that the police would detain him (or them) until the psych unit could get them back to hospital, so that's what I did.

It took them 9 hours to come and get them. That was a very long night...

Redwinedaze · 15/12/2024 10:10

VegTrug · 15/12/2024 10:01

Been in a very similar situation with my nephew just two weeks ago and I was STUNNED at the police attitude. The Inspector rang my nephew and “had a chat” with him and then called me back to say he was “Confident he’s fine and was just having a wobble” He’s schizophrenic! He wasn’t having a wobble he was making severe threats to the safety of the public and himself!

Unbelievable. My friend is the manager of a supported living place for people with mental health conditions & learning disabilities and last year he had a resident who was putting the other resident’s lives at risk. As my friend is a mental health professional, in his opinion this man met the requirements for sectioning under the mental health act (friend obviously couldn’t go into too much detail).

Yet even when the resident set the entire BUILDING on fire, with everyone in it, they still wouldn’t Section him and told friend to “take the resident over the border into the next county and then make the call.”
So my friend had to have two staff members (both female as all his staff were that day) restrain him whilst friend drove 30 miles to a disused car park in the next county, just in order to have this poor resident Sectioned. Absolute madness of the highest order.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this right now.

Edited

That’s part of the issue, getting someone sectioned the bar is very high. You’d be shocked if I showed you the questions asked at our local facility, it needs reviewing, often people are dropped by the Police after the custody nurse recommends a sec 136. Within an hour they are back on the streets with the Police getting a bollocking by the facility.

Who can’t win because they are not medical professionals but have taken the advice of a medical professional who has been overruled. They then have to be taken away from other calls to run around when they are called again knowing they have little or no powers because the Doctors won’t listen.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 10:04

THisbackwithavengeance · 15/12/2024 07:11

I do sympathise OP.

But it did seem like you were expecting the police and ambulance to drive around possibly for hours on end looking for a man who could've been anywhere.

Obviously not going to happen.

And the inspector was right, you didn't do your own checks. Why didn't you get a family member or friend to mind your kids and get looking for him yourself?

Firstly, I was not expecting the ambulance crew to do anything. The police, yes. However, he could not have been 'anywhere' I told them exactly where he was and this is an area covered in cctv so not hard to find someone.

What 'checks' did I not do? I don't have anyone to mind my kids and I didn't want to have to look for a man who is aggressive due to mental illness therefore putting myself (and others) in danger.

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Redwinedaze · 15/12/2024 10:03

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 09:51

Assault for a start.

Why did they accept it was their job when the ambulance told me the policy to quote to them?

How is people being hurt not a 'real emergency'?

Why do they have powers to take a person to a mental health hospital if they aren't there to deal with these situations?

If they aren't there to keep people safe in these situations, who is?

Show quote history

If he is having a mental health crisis, arresting for assault wouldn’t be a suitable way to deal, he wouldn’t be charged and they would be criticised for keeping him in a cell because it’s not a suitable place for those reasons.

He would need to be removed to A&E (or a mental health facility) which happened. who would probably release him by the sounds of it for a medication review.

The accommodation staff were not worried, are you aggravating the situation?

VegTrug · 15/12/2024 10:01

Been in a very similar situation with my nephew just two weeks ago and I was STUNNED at the police attitude. The Inspector rang my nephew and “had a chat” with him and then called me back to say he was “Confident he’s fine and was just having a wobble” He’s schizophrenic! He wasn’t having a wobble he was making severe threats to the safety of the public and himself!

Unbelievable. My friend is the manager of a supported living place for people with mental health conditions & learning disabilities and last year he had a resident who was putting the other resident’s lives at risk. As my friend is a mental health professional, in his opinion this man met the requirements for sectioning under the mental health act (friend obviously couldn’t go into too much detail).

Yet even when the resident set the entire BUILDING on fire, with everyone in it, they still wouldn’t Section him and told friend to “take the resident over the border into the next county and then make the call.”
So my friend had to have two staff members (both female as all his staff were that day) restrain him whilst friend drove 30 miles to a disused car park in the next county, just in order to have this poor resident Sectioned. Absolute madness of the highest order.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this right now.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 09:59

LoudSnoringDog · 15/12/2024 06:59

The police have very recently adopted a new process called RCRP ( right care, right person). They are no longer involving themselves in mental health issues UNLESS there are immediate and significant concerns to the persons life or public safety.
Lots on the internet about it.

This was the policy the ambulance crew got me to quote to them when they kept telling me they couldn't do anything. Seems they are not interested in dealing with mental health even with those concerns.

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Redwinedaze · 15/12/2024 09:58

Justsayit123 · 15/12/2024 06:23

What crime has your partner committed? The police arent there to deal with mental health issues….not their job and as they have do few resources, they need to deal with real emergencies. Sorry, yes the system is screwed, but don’t blame the police.

This and why didn’t you tell the Police who you was when they entered the cafe? They’re not going to announce the name of the person they are there to see to random strangers.

They’re can’t run around looking for someone when their support staff have said there isn’t a problem, and it’s normal for him to be out.

Taking him to A&E was all that could be done, they are not health professional, A&E can section him, Police can’t hold someone for their mental health, they can 136 him but can’t hold him it wouldn’t be fair on him, once sectioned he has to go to a medical facility.

Police seem to be used as a catch all service when others such as mental health services fail, that’s partly why they can no longer proactively Police.

That aside, why are you with him, do you want to be with him or are you trapped in a carer type role.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 09:53

RedHelenB · 15/12/2024 06:46

This.

Show quote history

As I already said my DC have been kept safe. Hence, me ignoring police advice to go out searching for him and let him in my house when my children were here.

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Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 09:51

Justsayit123 · 15/12/2024 06:23

What crime has your partner committed? The police arent there to deal with mental health issues….not their job and as they have do few resources, they need to deal with real emergencies. Sorry, yes the system is screwed, but don’t blame the police.

Assault for a start.

Why did they accept it was their job when the ambulance told me the policy to quote to them?

How is people being hurt not a 'real emergency'?

Why do they have powers to take a person to a mental health hospital if they aren't there to deal with these situations?

If they aren't there to keep people safe in these situations, who is?

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Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 09:45

falalalalaaaaaaaa · 15/12/2024 03:05

Just checking in to see how you're doing, OP. It sounds so stressful, and I'm so sorry no one was more supportive

Thank you. It's just been so awful dealing with the police. Never been shouted at or talked to so horribly in my life.

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Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 09:43

Allthehorsesintheworld · 15/12/2024 02:44

This country has completely fallen apart, every single service is failing.
12 years ago the police were brilliant during a friend’s mental health crisis, went above and beyond to keep them safe and were kind and understanding to boot. Now it’s all gone to pot.
I think your partner’s SW might be your best hope. If you’re up to it you could contact your MP and complain to the police. There’ll be complaint procedure details online.
I also think ( but trying to remember this from 12 years ago) that the police could have detained your partner as a risk to himself or others , I think it’s called a section 136. Maybe you could ask the SW about this and include it in your complaint ?

Yes, remembered it correctly. https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-laws-and-criminal-justice/mental-health-laws/section-136-of-the-mental-health-act-emergency-police-powers-to-take-you-from-a-public-place-to-a-place-of-safety/#:~:text=Section%20136%20is%20part%20of,mental%20health%20will%20be%20assessed.

Edited

Thank you, I appreciate that.

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Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 09:41

XWKD · 15/12/2024 02:36

You're such an amazing person to go through all that for him.

I hope things improve. It's shocking what you've had to go through.

Thank you so much x

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Apolloneuro · 15/12/2024 07:16

THisbackwithavengeance · 15/12/2024 07:11

I do sympathise OP.

But it did seem like you were expecting the police and ambulance to drive around possibly for hours on end looking for a man who could've been anywhere.

Obviously not going to happen.

And the inspector was right, you didn't do your own checks. Why didn't you get a family member or friend to mind your kids and get looking for him yourself?

What a spectacularly unkind post. What the hell is wrong with you?

Oh and also learn to read. The OP had checked all the people the poor bloke might have been with.

Fucking hell.

THisbackwithavengeance · 15/12/2024 07:11

I do sympathise OP.

But it did seem like you were expecting the police and ambulance to drive around possibly for hours on end looking for a man who could've been anywhere.

Obviously not going to happen.

And the inspector was right, you didn't do your own checks. Why didn't you get a family member or friend to mind your kids and get looking for him yourself?

LoudSnoringDog · 15/12/2024 06:59

The police have very recently adopted a new process called RCRP ( right care, right person). They are no longer involving themselves in mental health issues UNLESS there are immediate and significant concerns to the persons life or public safety.
Lots on the internet about it.

RedHelenB · 15/12/2024 06:46

DowntonCrabby · 14/12/2024 11:49

Honestly OP you need to put yourself, your DC and yours and their safety first.

A man mentally unwell enough to need to live in supported accommodation, who you feared would likely hurt you is not a partner in any sense of the word.

I absolutely appreciate he is very ill and this isn’t anyone’s fault but the services letting you all down but really really think about yourself and your DC.

This.

Justsayit123 · 15/12/2024 06:23

What crime has your partner committed? The police arent there to deal with mental health issues….not their job and as they have do few resources, they need to deal with real emergencies. Sorry, yes the system is screwed, but don’t blame the police.

Pat888 · 15/12/2024 06:18

I would write a letter detailing in brief what happened to the police, Mental health services, the home, your MP, maybe by email so you have a record or write a letter with an sae and send by recorded delivery. Then they can't pretend they didn't receive it.
This could have been resolved easily but if there are rules which give the mentally ill rights it's hard to expect people not to follow them, I would guess nowadays it could put their job at risk if they did.

falalalalaaaaaaaa · 15/12/2024 03:05

Just checking in to see how you're doing, OP. It sounds so stressful, and I'm so sorry no one was more supportive

Allthehorsesintheworld · 15/12/2024 02:44

This country has completely fallen apart, every single service is failing.
12 years ago the police were brilliant during a friend’s mental health crisis, went above and beyond to keep them safe and were kind and understanding to boot. Now it’s all gone to pot.
I think your partner’s SW might be your best hope. If you’re up to it you could contact your MP and complain to the police. There’ll be complaint procedure details online.
I also think ( but trying to remember this from 12 years ago) that the police could have detained your partner as a risk to himself or others , I think it’s called a section 136. Maybe you could ask the SW about this and include it in your complaint ?

Yes, remembered it correctly. https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-laws-and-criminal-justice/mental-health-laws/section-136-of-the-mental-health-act-emergency-police-powers-to-take-you-from-a-public-place-to-a-place-of-safety/#:~:text=Section%20136%20is%20part%20of,mental%20health%20will%20be%20assessed.

XWKD · 15/12/2024 02:36

You're such an amazing person to go through all that for him.

I hope things improve. It's shocking what you've had to go through.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 02:12

CleverGreyDuck · 15/12/2024 00:55

I’m so sorry what a heart wrenching situation to be in. It does seem more and more that as services are stretched that “care” seems to not be there. Hoping for more positive things coming your way OP

Thank you so much

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