Page 4 | To feel sad that noone seems to care

Feelingsad1987 · 2024-12-14T01:54:15+00:00

Just feeling really sad. This is pointless and just a rant, really. Just had a difficult situation tonight. My partner is living in supportive accommodation. The staff are meant to make sure he takes his medication but they've not been doing so. Consequently he is now in psychosis. Got an appointment for him on Wednesday with the psychiatrist. However, this afternoon he ended up being verbally aggressive to another resident. The police were called who just said 'there's nothing we can do'. My partner then ended up at mine very confused and agitated. Said he was never going back to his accommodation as so paranoid and deluded about what is happening there. Then left mine refusing to say where he was going. I was very concerned about his welfare and the danger to other people so I phoned the police explained the situation and explained he needed to be found and taken to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can't do anything and I need to phone the ambulance. So I phone the ambulance who explain I need to phone the police as they can't drive around searching for him, but once the police find him they will attend. They tell me the police policy to quote to the police to convince them to help. So this time they take all the details. A few hours later they phoned me back to say the 'inspector' wouldn't do anything as I had to do "all my checks' I asked what that meant. I had to speak to all his family and friends. I said that I had of course spoken to his mum and sister, they'd not seen him, but would call the police if he turned up there. He has no friends. I was then told his mum and sister have to do 'their checks'. I asked what they meant. I was told they needed to speak to all his family and friends. I explained again that he has no friends and his only family is his mum and sister. He is not with them. While this was happening he turned up at mine again and was very agitated and ran off when he realised I was talking to someone about him. 'We'll close things now that he's back home...' I explained this wasn't his home and that he'd ran off and he was still psychotic and dangerous. 'We can't do anything, we don't know where he is...' I told them the road he would be on after leaving mine. They then told me that I should be going out looking for him. I told them I have children so wasn't able to do that. They then told me I shouldn't have let him leave. Were really nasty about it. Said if he came back to keep him there. A couple more hours then they phone me back to tell me they aren't going to do anything as they have spoken to the 'nurse' at his supported accommodation and they have said they have no concerns, that he often goes out and will be back by 11. I have to explain to the police there are no nurses it is a carer with no expertise in mental health. And one who clearly had no handover as they certainly had concerns when he was being aggressive to another resident. I also have to explain again he has said he will not go back there. The police tell me well 'they've let him out' so he must be ok. I have to explain to them it is supported accommodation not prison and he is free to come and go, there is no mechanism for them to not 'let him out'. 'Well, we can't do anything. If he comes back you need to keep him here and phone an ambulance. I explain I'm frightened of letting him in he is highly likely to hurt me. 'Oh well, anyone might hurt you, you don't know he's going to.' He turns up again. I let him in and manage to calm him and explain I need to phone an ambulance. He gets very agitated. I phone the ambulance, they hear my screams and send the police. Police arrive and I explain how unwell he is. I ask them to take him to the Psych hospital. They tell me they can only do that if my partner confirms himself that he is a danger to himself and others. They say they'll drop him at A&E. I ask what to do when he comes back from there...oh well phone us... Not one police officer seemed to care at all. I understand sometimes their hands are tied but they just didn't seem to care atall. And the way they would just confidently state complete rubbish and when you pointed it out it didn't seem to have any impact. It was their way or the highway. No matter how much ignorance it was based on or how much danger people would be put in. It didn't matter to them.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 12:19

itsgettingweird · 15/12/2024 11:21

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

How utterly terrifying for you and your partner.

And this is exactly why we always end up with an investigation and a "things to improve on" report.

But they don't improve. They continue to wait until til someone hurts themselves or others and then it comes out they've been as failed as their victim.

It really does make you understand how these things happen. The police obviously don't do risk assessments so to them the world is just full of random things happening. They don't look at any background information or are aware of anything else that has happened. No wonder they can't keep people safe. The whole system needs updating.

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Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 12:12

soupfiend · 15/12/2024 11:15

My sympathies OP

The problem is there is no emergency MH services in this country and barely any non emergency MH services

People above are correct, the police are not medical professionals and cant spend the night chasing round trying to find someone, that isnt policing. Equally we shouldnt have a situation where someone is acutely unwell and possibly a danger to themselves or others being on the streets like this, but there isnt a service who will deal with that

Quite often there isnt a 136 suite, there is the custody rooms and thats all there is. Then you have no MH practitioner to come out to assess or they have to drop at A+E where the person will just walk straight back out again.

The police have taken to quoting 'right service right time' or whatever its called, the problem here is there is no right service, it doesnt exist. The ambulance crew wont come out because they feel it needs police oversight or the person is missing. Police wont come out because its a MH issue and needs medical care

Both those things are true and people fall through the cracks.

Yes, exactly, there needs to be a police section combined with medical staff that works with mental health issuese. And when I was asking about this yesterday the police just talked to me like I was stupid and told me I should phone them! 🤦‍♀️

Noone is expecting them to chase around all evening. I expected them to pick up someone who was a danger to others and themselves. They wasted far more time with all the back and forth we've had over the last couple of days. They will have spent a whole weekend chasing around unecessarily.

We do have a 136 suite at the Psych hospital. And as you say dropping the person at A&E achieves nothing. The amount of time the police spent arguing with me that taking him to A&E 'would give him the help he needs' was just madness. They seem to live in some fantasy land, I suppose they were just gaslighting me to shut me down but it was crazy.

And yes, it seems 'right service, right time' or whatever is used as a way for noone to take responsibility. I totally got why the ambulance service said it as they can't get to someone quick enough for them to remain in the same place and they can't deal with a dangerous person. But the police seem to want to use it as a way to absolve them of responsibility when the public are in danger. When I quoted it to them they did then accept it was their remit (well, they said they did, but in reality they didn't) but then today they have phoned me to argue with me that I shouldn't have called them as it should have been ambulance, all the while telling me if it kicks off today to phone them!! Honestly, where do they find these people? I've never had anything to do with the police in the past and I hope I never have anything to do with them again.

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Dappy777 · 15/12/2024 12:06

I’m sorry op. The world is overcrowded, especially the U.K., and everything moves at such a fast pace as well. Because of that, people just have no time for one another. Twenty years ago, I visited the west coast of Ireland and was really struck by how kind and gentle and friendly people seemed. In reality, of course, I was comparing them to Londoners. When you have too many people jammed on top of one another, they get on one another’s nerves, and by the end of the week they’re all sick of each other. If the world was quieter, slower and emptier, we’d care more, and we’d have more time for our neighbours.

Petergriffinschins · 15/12/2024 11:53

SnoopysHoose · 15/12/2024 11:37

instead they will take the word of a minimum wage carer with no training in mental health, who doesn't know my partner and has just come on shift?
is this the same person you expect to ensure he takes his meds? you're very scathing of overstretched services, yet expect everything from them.

No, she’s right. I work in this area and I’ve made more complaints to the CQC than I care to remember.

The majority of other staff I worked with couldn’t give a shit. The mistakes that are made with medication are horrendous. Training is a joke. It’s mainly people that don’t want to do the job and don’t care.

Shes right to expect more. We all should.

ProfessorInkling · 15/12/2024 11:38

I sympathise with this, I am sorry this is happening to you and your partner.

I've been the staff in that situation and it's very hard to ask somebody to take meds if they're saying they don't want to. Staff in these settings cannot enforce it. We can remind, suggest, take meds to someone's room instead of asking them to come to the meds room even, but if they say no we have to respect that. I have worked with women in severe need of expert support and spent hours on the phone to the police or crisis teams literally begging for some assistance. Support staff are left to pick up the pieces when there is no one else. We care, deeply, including the temps.

SnoopysHoose · 15/12/2024 11:37

instead they will take the word of a minimum wage carer with no training in mental health, who doesn't know my partner and has just come on shift?
is this the same person you expect to ensure he takes his meds? you're very scathing of overstretched services, yet expect everything from them.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:34

Lavenderblossoms · 15/12/2024 11:07

The mental health services in this country are terrible anyway. Over stretched and underfunded. There needs to be more to help vulnerable people.

My friend had a borderline psychosis episode, never ever seen her like that before and it was after an extreme period of stress. Trying to get the crisis team to take it seriously, waiting hours upon hours for a phone call while trying to stop her killing herself was horrendous. She has no family and a sister with learning difficulties so it fell onto her friends. It was hugely stressful. I am nd and my own mental health issues and it was very triggering but I did my best for her.

What happens when the person has no one? It's just so bloody sad. And frustrating to me. They are happy plowing money into bollocks, these governments but mental health is never taken seriously. Until it happens to them of course!

Edited

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences. I would love for one of the people I have spoken to over the last few days to experience what it is like to deal with someone in psychosis who is aggressive and to have to keep calming them after every flare up. To actually understand the mental health system and not just spurt bollocks. To have even the tiniest bit of compassion for family and friends in these situations. But they all just seem so arrogant and think they know it all already, I doubt it would have any kind of impact.

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Petergriffinschins · 15/12/2024 11:32

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:28

Yes, it's an awful place. And the police take the word of this random staff member over the person who knows him/has seen him last despite what the staff member says contradicting what the police themselves witnessed and were told earlier! Honestly, it's madness. It appears police take no notes and noone is ever able to know what has happened previously. It is a system that just can't work.

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Yeah, they do, unfortunately. I’ve seen police and other professionals take the word of bank staff who have only set foot in the place once as gospel. No one will overhaul these awful places. It’s the same in all “care” accommodation, mental health, elderly, children’s homes. It’s despicable and all any staff care about is covering their own backs.

Allthehorsesintheworld · 15/12/2024 11:30

@VegTrug words fail me, that is truly awful. Years of under funding and cuts have come home to roost.
In an EU country: friend seen on own in town, looking a bit lost and bedraggled, police on routine patrol were concerned for safety. Took friend home to find it empty so took friend immediately to hospital 25 kms away where seen within 30 minutes, equivalent of section actioned and friend was then taken to a mental health facility about 50kms and was tucked up in a bed all within 4-5 hours of the police spotting them. Happened this summer. Systems work because health is seen as a priority for everyone.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:28

Petergriffinschins · 15/12/2024 11:04

I’m sorry OP, it’s shameful.

Sounds like he was in the sort of accommodation I used to work in. High turnover of crap staff, they will employ anyone willing to put up with shit hours, low pay, being treated like crap. Staff out of thier depth, mediation often missed.

Its an awful system.

Yes, it's an awful place. And the police take the word of this random staff member over the person who knows him/has seen him last despite what the staff member says contradicting what the police themselves witnessed and were told earlier! Honestly, it's madness. It appears police take no notes and noone is ever able to know what has happened previously. It is a system that just can't work.

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DoveMeaning · 15/12/2024 11:26

I work in this field.

Sorry OP. This sounds so tough. Some random thoughts from me.

Of course someone with a mental illness, on clozapine and living in suitable housing, can have a fulfilling relationship. Everyone is different and someone whose symptoms are well-controlled with meds and who has insight, can navigate a relationship with a supportive partner.

I am shocked that there has not been more help forthcoming OP. Since the Nottingham deaths, my MH trust is certainly stepping up efforts.

What a shame the police didn’t detain your partner under a S136 in the cafe and take him straight to a place of safety where he could be assessed and possibly detained.

I am sure you know that they can only do a S136 in public and not at your home.

Crisis teams can only really work with people who consent to work with them as they do home visits etc and need to think about safety. But someone at risk who cannot engage with a crisis team should then be a priority for assessment and detention and the police’s 136 powers may be the only option.

Both MH services and police are underfunded so it’s a shit show. But where I am in London there is a dedicated police unit for MH. The police are amazing and on occasions, better than some MH staff.

The staff at his housing can offer him his medication but cannot of course force him to take it. What went wrong do you think?

Finally, there is no excuse for rudeness ever. I am sorry the police spoke to you this way.

OP you are filling in the gaps in service provisions and it’s horrendous. It’s sad but in these situations, the ‘best’ outcome is that your partner is caught shouting in a public place before harm happens, and that a member of the public calls the police who take him to a place of safety under a S136. Unless of course he improves with your care, and keeps his appt on Weds. good luck. I don’t think you should do much more at this stage. Well done.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:23

5128gap · 15/12/2024 11:03

Unfortunately, the more stretched services believe friends and family will do to carry the burden, the more they will back off and let them. Because you are involved and advocate for him they will have you pegged as his carer, so he has some support. Your best bet is to abdicate responsibility and call the police when your partner arrives at your home telling them he is a danger to you/himself. You might also want to consider complaining about the response tonight and informing your MP.

Yes, this is definitely the attitude. But they will deny it later. Been told by another nasty individual this morning that the police did not tell me to search for him/keep him at my house. They phoned to make an appointment so they could make a report about what has been happening!! They wondered what I expected more than that?! I mean I assume these calls are recorded so them saying these things will be on a recording but I suppose it will probably be accidently lost.

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itsgettingweird · 15/12/2024 11:21

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

How utterly terrifying for you and your partner.

And this is exactly why we always end up with an investigation and a "things to improve on" report.

But they don't improve. They continue to wait until til someone hurts themselves or others and then it comes out they've been as failed as their victim.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:17

ChristmasEveNotChristmasSteve · 15/12/2024 11:01

What a fucking nightmare. You sound extremely resilient and strong. I'm sorry you and your partner aren't being supported properly through what sounds like a highly painful situation.

Thank you, that is kind.

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Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:17

Trepidfox · 15/12/2024 10:48

There seems a massive hole where the police and ambulance service end up bouncing people around when they don't know what to do with someone in crisis. It's been this way for a very long time, sometimes when they don't have a busy night (rarely especially this time of year) or you have experienced blue light workers you can get excellent help. It's such a shame that this is down to chance and not standard. Not their fault, it's a systemic failure. Feeling absolutely helpless and terrified for not only your partner but other members of the public safety is awful. We have all seen the stories of what can happen, the media then floods us with 'how could this have happened' THIS is how it happens.

I am so sorry your are shouldering all this on your own, it's terrifying. For those who may pass judgement, have a little think about what you would do? Take a moment and have a think about the reality of being a lone woman, walking the streets at night to locate someone who may possibly attack you? Nobody knows how frightening these situations until your in them.

Sending hugs OP x

Thank you that is so kind.

The police attitude seems to be that until you are attacked there is no way of you knowing it is a high possibility, attacks are all completely random with no forewarning. After you have been attacked, the police will make an appointment to take the details of that.

It really makes you understand how these terrible things happens as it seems police no longer protect people, they just make reports of things after the fact.

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soupfiend · 15/12/2024 11:15

My sympathies OP

The problem is there is no emergency MH services in this country and barely any non emergency MH services

People above are correct, the police are not medical professionals and cant spend the night chasing round trying to find someone, that isnt policing. Equally we shouldnt have a situation where someone is acutely unwell and possibly a danger to themselves or others being on the streets like this, but there isnt a service who will deal with that

Quite often there isnt a 136 suite, there is the custody rooms and thats all there is. Then you have no MH practitioner to come out to assess or they have to drop at A+E where the person will just walk straight back out again.

The police have taken to quoting 'right service right time' or whatever its called, the problem here is there is no right service, it doesnt exist. The ambulance crew wont come out because they feel it needs police oversight or the person is missing. Police wont come out because its a MH issue and needs medical care

Both those things are true and people fall through the cracks.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:10

Beentheresomanytimes · 15/12/2024 10:26

I'm so desperately sorry to read this OP, and all others who have gone through similar - as my name suggests I sadly know exactly what you're going through and how traumatic it is. I'm really angry for you. My dsibling is no longer with us after decades of this type of situation, but I cannot tell you how many times the police were crucial in finding her and escorting her to a place of safety where she was often sectioned and supported back to health. I think it would have broken me to be coping with these incidents without police support.

The police should never have been able to step back the way they have without a suitable alternative in place. Sorry that's not more practically helpful to you right now but you have my deepest sympathy in coping with this. I think all you can do is raise concern after concern, in writing, to his gp, your gp (the knock on effect of this type of trauma is real, so please look after your own health too) his psychiatric and social care teams, and your mp. Anyone who will listen and take it as high as you can. I think we need more formal complaints raised in order to get these issues addressed - problem being the time and effort it takes when you're in it and coping with the fallout. So many patients and their families are going to suffer long term consequences as a result of there not being adequate powers to find and escort seriously unwell patients to safety.

I completely agree, there should be a suitable alternative. I have asked the police about this if anything else exists in these situations and they just tell me to phone the police!!

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Lavenderblossoms · 15/12/2024 11:07

The mental health services in this country are terrible anyway. Over stretched and underfunded. There needs to be more to help vulnerable people.

My friend had a borderline psychosis episode, never ever seen her like that before and it was after an extreme period of stress. Trying to get the crisis team to take it seriously, waiting hours upon hours for a phone call while trying to stop her killing herself was horrendous. She has no family and a sister with learning difficulties so it fell onto her friends. It was hugely stressful. I am nd and my own mental health issues and it was very triggering but I did my best for her.

What happens when the person has no one? It's just so bloody sad. And frustrating to me. They are happy plowing money into bollocks, these governments but mental health is never taken seriously. Until it happens to them of course!

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 11:06

LakieLady · 15/12/2024 10:18

People do not go into supported accommodation because they are acutely unwell. Normally, he manages his mental health well. It is just because of problems at the house with staff not doing their job.

This is pretty poor practice, OP. I'd take it up with whichever outfit is supposedly running the supported accommodation.

The organisation I work for manages supported accommodation for people with MH issues. It ranges from homes that are staffed 24/7, for people with severe MH issues or recently discharged from hospital, to self-contained properties where they have minimal support but a worker checks in with them at least every 3 months, and they move on to general needs housing once they've been well for a couple of years. All the staff have MH training, and it's pretty comprehensive. They would be more than able to identify if someone's MH was deteriorating, and get MH professionals involved.

I'm afraid that, unless he's subject to a section or a danger to himself or others, the police don't want to know. Even with a section, they're reluctant to get involved.

My DB was detained on a section when the staff thought he was well enough to go into town for a few hours with another patient. They rocked up at my house, 150 miles away, several hours later. The hospital had already been in touch with my parents and told them to call the police if he turned up, and said that the police would detain him (or them) until the psych unit could get them back to hospital, so that's what I did.

It took them 9 hours to come and get them. That was a very long night...

There is already a safeguarding investigation around 2 issues. I'll be speaking to his SW on Monday to raise these new issues. There is no point in raising anything with the accommodation as they are not interested. A new company took over, awful manager meaning all the good staff have left and it is mainly run on bank and a couple of incompetent staff.

Yes, it does seem it doesn't matter how many people get hurt the police are just not interested.

Oh, that sounds really tough. Iy is such hard work just trying to contain the situation and the police just don't understand that.

I'd have more respect for them if they admitted they have limited resources and that they can't always help as they should. Instead all they want to do is argue the toss about how they did everything perfectly and treat you like shit because you dared to be asked to be protected by the police. Then confidently tell you next time you ring 999 they will protect you, and when you point out they didn't help all the times you have dialled 999 over the last 2 days they just shut you down.

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Petergriffinschins · 15/12/2024 11:04

I’m sorry OP, it’s shameful.

Sounds like he was in the sort of accommodation I used to work in. High turnover of crap staff, they will employ anyone willing to put up with shit hours, low pay, being treated like crap. Staff out of thier depth, mediation often missed.

Its an awful system.

5128gap · 15/12/2024 11:03

Unfortunately, the more stretched services believe friends and family will do to carry the burden, the more they will back off and let them. Because you are involved and advocate for him they will have you pegged as his carer, so he has some support. Your best bet is to abdicate responsibility and call the police when your partner arrives at your home telling them he is a danger to you/himself. You might also want to consider complaining about the response tonight and informing your MP.

ChristmasEveNotChristmasSteve · 15/12/2024 11:01

What a fucking nightmare. You sound extremely resilient and strong. I'm sorry you and your partner aren't being supported properly through what sounds like a highly painful situation.

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 10:54

Redwinedaze · 15/12/2024 10:10

That’s part of the issue, getting someone sectioned the bar is very high. You’d be shocked if I showed you the questions asked at our local facility, it needs reviewing, often people are dropped by the Police after the custody nurse recommends a sec 136. Within an hour they are back on the streets with the Police getting a bollocking by the facility.

Who can’t win because they are not medical professionals but have taken the advice of a medical professional who has been overruled. They then have to be taken away from other calls to run around when they are called again knowing they have little or no powers because the Doctors won’t listen.

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So they just do nothing and let people be assaulted? Yes, the bar is high but in these situations this is exactly what their 136 power is for. They hide behind 'we are not medical professionals' - noone is asking them to be that.

Is it beyond their ability that if they speak to an accomodation that they find out and understand who they are talking to rather than just making up that it is a psychiatric nurse? Should they not establish whether the person they are talking to knows the person in question? Should they not question why there are no concerns when they called the police earlier due to assault, the person left the accommodation in an aggressive and agitated manner? Should they not wonder why the care worker is saying the person will be back at 11 when they are not allowed to return there? Is that not just basic critical thinking and dare I say it detective work which I thought was a police role?

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Trepidfox · 15/12/2024 10:48

There seems a massive hole where the police and ambulance service end up bouncing people around when they don't know what to do with someone in crisis. It's been this way for a very long time, sometimes when they don't have a busy night (rarely especially this time of year) or you have experienced blue light workers you can get excellent help. It's such a shame that this is down to chance and not standard. Not their fault, it's a systemic failure. Feeling absolutely helpless and terrified for not only your partner but other members of the public safety is awful. We have all seen the stories of what can happen, the media then floods us with 'how could this have happened' THIS is how it happens.

I am so sorry your are shouldering all this on your own, it's terrifying. For those who may pass judgement, have a little think about what you would do? Take a moment and have a think about the reality of being a lone woman, walking the streets at night to locate someone who may possibly attack you? Nobody knows how frightening these situations until your in them.

Sending hugs OP x

Original poster

Feelingsad1987 · 15/12/2024 10:42

Redwinedaze · 15/12/2024 10:03

If he is having a mental health crisis, arresting for assault wouldn’t be a suitable way to deal, he wouldn’t be charged and they would be criticised for keeping him in a cell because it’s not a suitable place for those reasons.

He would need to be removed to A&E (or a mental health facility) which happened. who would probably release him by the sounds of it for a medication review.

The accommodation staff were not worried, are you aggravating the situation?

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Quite right, he shouldn't have been arrested he should have been taken to the 136 suite.

No he should have been taken to the 136 not A&E. If he could have been kept at A&E he would have been sectioned.

The accommodation staff were not worried? Why did they phone the police then? Why is he not allowed back there? The member of staff who told the staff he wasn't worried had never met my partner before and had, had no handover on the situation. The house has already apologised to me about that. Am I aggravating the situation? I'm the only one trying to keep things calm and reduce the amount of assault to the general public and myself!!

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