(CW Child abuse) Why do mothers not protect their children from abusive boyfriends

Yes, but you included more examples of sexual harassment in your list - cat calling, staring, propositions, following and so on and I thought that was why you felt secure in exaggerating by saying “it happens to most women hundreds of times day in and day out” it being “sexual abuse” which is “the norm”

For the last time, sexual touching of an adult without their consent is sexual assault, it is not sexual abuse. Sexual abuse is used for child victims where they cannot give consent. You should not be using it on a thread about child abuse when you are putting out figures that you then later clarify as applying to adult women. I note you have not provided a single source to substantiate any of your figures/%.

I thought what you said was your view and referred to it as such, you then denied it was your view, so I asked you what is your view then? You are acting very strangely on this thread if I’m being honest. It’s like you are starting your own thread about how often adult women are being harassed and assaulted on the tube within a thread about the deaths of vulnerable children from physical and neglectful child abuse. It’s pretty disrespectful and disconcerting. I am going to disengage from you now.

So same for him then I presume.

I find it interesting how in discussions like this, the actions of female perpetrators are so often speculated to stem from a history of trauma and abuse, but the same speculation generally does not occur in the case of male perpetrators. And when male perpetrators report a history of abuse it tends to be dismissed as irrelevant or disbelieved, often viewed as a means to get a more lenient sentence. This phenomenon has played out several times on this thread. There are some fascinating studies on this.

Where do you work because thats not the case at my LA

ACEs are part and parcel of what makes up a persons history and how they have worked with that, are they replicating those, what support they've had with that, what insight they have with that is all part of assessment and analysis of how they come to parent now.

I have never said I think any of those things. I have said factually that child sexual abuse is the rarest form of child abuse. I disagree with you that any child abuse is “normal”. I disagree with you that you can use statistics concerning assaults of adults to say anything about child abuse.

Look at the data concerning all forms of child abuse (ONS bar graph attached again). Saying the facts that every other type of child abuse is more common than child sexual abuse is not dismissing child sexual abuse.

In fact, your insistence on totally ignoring physical abuse, neglect and emotional abuse of children is very dismissive especially in light of the fact that physical abuse and neglect are the types of child abuse that result in murdered children.

None of the cases of children killed by their parents discussed on this thread were due to child sexual abuse- so why the hell are you constantly pushing a narrative that completely ignores these more serious and more common types of child abuse?

Touching someone sexually via groping and rubbing themselves up on someone is sexual abuse.

I have already corrected that twice but you seem hell bent on ignoring it.

Adults can be sexually abused you are wrong for saying that adults being touched without consent is not abuse. It most certainly is. This is why it is minimised because ppl do not see it as a problem.

So now you are asking my view when you clearly stated you knew it? You do not at all. You cannot cope with me replying to someone and talking about one thing without you making things up to suit your bee in your bonnet. Not sure what your issue is with excusing abuse or ignoring victims but quite frankly it is abhorrent.

The Chelsea case she apparently has learning difficulties.
It seems she accidentally fell pregnant rather than choosing to settle down and have a dc with a strong relationship and good partner.. The next bf sounds like he used her for money etc and companionship.. She didn't have the capacity to work out what's the best thing for her child.

Unfortunately childcare is the new hair dresser for the government so many ill suited youngsters have been directed to child care courses where before it would be hair and beauty.

My niece works in this area and she said many of the "students", you wouldn't leave a cat with let alone a child.

They feel so bad about themselves that they chase anything that gives them a little hit of self worth. Absolutely pathetic really

Yes this, I've thought this for years, some women have such low self esteem that they'll put up with any old shit just to have a man in their life, even at the expense of their own children, it's pathetic that their head is turned so easily...

Chelsea says the reason she left Jeff in 2019 was because he led her to drugs.

So why on earth did she get back with him years later with a small child?

She made a choice, she knew what he was like.

That is the real data. kids being sent dick pics is child abuse and is very common. Just because you think kids being sent images of children's penises are being a non issue or being coerced into sending images of themselves back then doesn't mean to say it isn't. It is common and and it is sexual abuse.

Ofsted even report that this happens a lot and is considered normal not rare. I do not dismiss sexual abuse of children. Sorry if you do.

@soupfiend in this case it was drugs and alcohol. Hence going from 0 to murder.

Because your examples regarding women on the tube were mostly sexual harrassment.

It is very difficult to wade through your exaggeration, the throwing out of random and slightly irrelevant unsourced data points, the mixing up of adult women with children, the lumping together sexual harrassment with sexual assault of adults by calling it “sexual abuse” which is a term that applies to children, not to adults.

What is your view then? I have paraphrased what you have written and now you are saying you are not writing your views in your posts? Whose views are they if not your own?

Editing to add it is still not clear how any of this supports your posts saying that “99.3%” of girls are victims of child abuse while “99.3%” of boys are not.

Totally agree with this. And I see apologists are already out quoting this trauma, or that history or ND possibilities or MH whatever for her.

Up until she met that bloke, by all accounts her child was happy, healthy and thriving. She allowed that child to be abused and killed and then couldnt give a shit what happned to the child's body

So she is far worse than him, just look at the pictures of him, he looks like he can barely have the intelligence to put one foot in front of the other, so why does she get people apologising for her and making excuses when he is likely to have perhaps a plethora of issues/factors into why he was what he was.

No, you’re really not saying what the data shows. You are throwing out unsubstantiated irrelevant data points and then drawing massive conclusions that are not supported by the data points. Eg. “75% of girls being send child porn [sex abuse images]” - even if this remarkable data point is true, it doesn’t disprove the real data.

Child sexual abuse is the rarest form of child abuse. It even occurs less often than children witnessing domestic abuse.

I correct it as females. Sexual abuse applies to all females. Not just those above 18.

Why did you call sexual abuse, harassment? That is minimising it when it is abuse not harassment. Touching someone sexually is abuse.

I never said that is my view. You said it was my view.

@OutWithTheMule I think the judge summed up the reasons well in his remarks. The mother is pathetic, desperate and needy. Sadly some mothers, particularly if very young, see their only achievement in life as having a child and a man. It doesn't matter if the man is the child's father - it's having someone to call a boyfriend. I imagine the mother in this case may well have initially seemed a good mother, but once the initial baby cuteness novelty factor wears off and the reality of a talking, running about little person kicks in, I guess it's easier to overlook the fact that this child is still the top priority and needs to come first.

When the mother had nothing else in her life - no other achievements, job, skills, sense of self worth - I suppose they cling even more to a man.

It was reported by the BBC, Law society, End violence against women, the guardian etc. Nope not hyper focused on it being rare as it isn't rare.

Yes I am saying that as that is what data shows. Child sexual abuse is common. Kids being sent child porn is the norm these days and sad that it is ignored and called rare when 75% of girls have been sent child porn. 70% have been asked to make child porn. It is certainly not rare at all.

I am not making assertions about all child abuse at all. I am responding to comments about it and then you are hyper focusing on my comments not theirs. Why is that?

so 75% of children being shown child porn is rare? Jesus Christ!

Ok I actually didn’t say daily, but “almost daily” as I was toning down your saying it happens “day in and day out” to most women. The phrase “day in and day out” literally means daily: done or happening every day for a long period of time**.

I know not to take you literally, that you are grossly exaggerating but it is hard to know what your point is?

Yes, adult women experience too much sexual harassment, but how does that support your view that girls are abused far more often than boys when it comes to all forms of child abuse?

Ok, can you please provide a link to this well published quota? And how it is only applied to male perpetrators of ? Are you still hyper focused on the rarest type of child abuse—>sexual abuse?

“99.3% of boys are not sexually abused but the poster said that they were as this is the level for girls under 18.”

Sorry what? Are you saying that 99.3% of girls suffer child sexual abuse? Or repeating that 99.3% of boys do not suffer child sexual abuse? Where are you reading this? It doesn’t match the NSPCC stats on child sexual abuse.

Finally, I will repeat that you cannot use statistics surrounding child sexual abuse to make assertions about all child abuse. In fact, child sexual abuse is the rarest and only form of child abuse where known/believed female victims significantly outnumber male victims.

I do not have it saved on my phone. Admitting means to disclose. Sorry for my lack of communication skills and using synonyms.

Sorry - my bad for using different words. Males/females. I am so wrong for using words in such a way. I need to learn to communicate better. My bad.

Nope I didn't say it happens daily for most women. Sorry if I need to explain it to you.

Females (my bad) are groped on the tube, get jack russelled in bars, get flashed at etc. This is the norm. For some it happens more than others but it is routine for many. It is not seen as sexual abuse. Nor is it often reported. Hope this clarifies my shitty behaviour and lack of communication skills.

Yes it is well publicised by the CPS that they have a quota to fudge conviction data. Baroness Chakrabati reported the shame of this being discovered.

Let off as in there is substantial evidence (film footage or confessions etc) and they are let off as in the police say NFA purposely to ensure that conviction data shows a high %.

99.3% of boys are not sexually abused but the poster said that they were as this is the level for girls under 18. That is not the case. Most sexual abuse is by other kids in schools. 52% of perpetrators of sexual abuse are other kids as sexual abuse is so rife in schools now. We ignore child on child abuse mostly and attribute abuse to just being from the parents. Sexual abuse is rife in schools. Ofsted report the levels as through the roof.

Hang on, you have said males/females and now men/women regarding sexual assault. How do these statistics you said you found on ONS relate to overall child abuse? Can you provide a link also to where it says that sexual assault “happens hundreds of times to most women day in day out and women do not report..”

Using what is obviously hyperbole makes it difficult to understand what you are trying to say and what statistical evidence you have read to give you the impression that most women are being sexually assaulted almost daily.

These quotas to let off male perpetrators, can you direct me to where this is published? And by “let off” do you mean pre or post conviction? And how does this disprove my comment that your data doesn’t prove what you say it does as the exact same data could also simply mean that male abusers are caught more frequently than female abusers?

On the “data isn’t even between the sexes at all” you have offered up an unsubstantiated statistic of 99.3% of boys are not sexually assaulted before age 18 (the NSPCC statistics are very different). Again this is an issue with the data not showing what you think it does in this case because most child abuse is not child sexual abuse.

The source is the ONS

Which specific publication please?

It is well established that women are significantly less likely to report as it happens so very often to women.

In your previous post you were talking about admitting rather than reporting. Can you provide sources this too please?