Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think there's not much help for women suffering domestic abuse?

58 replies

ChicaChow · 13/12/2024 22:24

Just the title really.

Before having witnessed two of my closest friends and a family member go through DV I thought there was a lot of help for victims of DV to leave. But actually it's really pitful!

I believed, as do many others that you could just ring women's aid and they'd assist you. You'd either have help to leave right away into a refuge or have someone allocated to help you make plans to leave. But the truth seems to be

  1. You ring women's aid and it's engaged constantly. Literally for days at a time sometimes. The chatlines can also take days to respond. Likely due to being massively under resourced.
  1. Many DV organisations won't work with victims if they are still in the relationship. My local council will only help once you've actually left the relationship. Surely you need the organisation to actually be helped to make the plans to leave?
  1. You don't get legal aid unless your on certain benefits and very low income. My best friend has had to take out a credit card after leaving with NOTHING and sleeping in her car as she has a job. She can't claim benefits as her income is too high. She can't get a council property or assistance with accomodation because her name is on the mortgage of the house she fled from. Her wages were paid into her abusive ex's account. So she slept in her car until payday. She has terrible credit due to her abusive ex running up debts in her name. So had to take out payday loans to get a private rent and now a credit card for legal fees.
  1. If you do flee DV with just the clothes on your back then there's a high chance you'll be put in a dodgy B+B and not a refuge as women's refuges are oversubscribed, you may even be put of area.
  1. When you do leave, if you go to the police, without hard evidence of your abuser attacking you like a video, it's basically just your word against there's. Then with no prosecution, you can't use it in court to protect your kids from them. Many victims are closely controlled and monitored. My friend said there was no way on earth she could have recorded him being abusive. He had full access to all devices and money. He read through every text, went through her phone regularly and she had 0 access to funds without his permission. She couldn't spy a secret camera as he'd see the transaction. She couldn't take out cash to buy a spy camera in person if she even found a shop that sold one, as he would question why she withdrew money and want a receipt. How can you collate evidence when every inch of your life is being monitored?
  1. On the note of children. No matter how horrendous and abusive your ex is, even if you do have video footage of them abusing you and s conviction, the abuser will always have access to the kids. Unless there is concrete evidence of them directly abusing the kids and proving they are a risk to them, they will have access. Even if you can prove a risk, they'll just say supervised access. The supervising person may even be an enabling family member of the abuser like the abusers own parent who the victim doesn't trust.

There is so much more. But I am horrified at the injustice to women and children in this country. One of my friends told me her life is harder now than it was living with her abuser. She has been alienated from family and friends of decades who've taken the side of the abuser or don't 'want to take sides'. She's lost her home she spent blood, sweat and tears on. She's financially ruined with horrific credit and no chance in owning once this is all over. Worst of all, her kids who were her reason for leaving (to keep them safe and from witnessing the violence), have to be sent to the abusive man unsupervised without her there to protect them. If the kids themselves say anything or speak out, she's accused of parental alienation.

I'm a social worker (in a different field) and am horrified by my recent experiences with friends and family. It's nothing like what our training says there is available to support.
I am at a loss as to what women are suppose to do!

Am I being unreasonable to think it's all lip service and actually women and children are unprotected?

OP posts:
Dweetfidilove · 14/12/2024 11:21

GildedRage · 14/12/2024 03:53

My dd is living parts of this nightmare.

As a family, what support can/do you offer to bridge the gaps left by an overstretched and under-resourced system?

SwallowsAmazons · 14/12/2024 11:14

There is not enough support for women or men suffering from domestic abuse. Men’s service in our area is once a month and does not have access to the free solicitors etc that are available at the women’s drop in. There are no refuge’s at all for men. Even with extensive evidence and the new laws to protect against non physical forms of abuse there are very few prosecutions. There needs to be more support in place for all victims of abuse and family courts absolutely are part of the problem and allow post separation abuse to continue where there are children involved.

Original poster
ChicaChow · 14/12/2024 10:37

Meadowfinch · 14/12/2024 09:50

OP, who is foolish enough to pay their salary into someone else's account? Literally giving independence away. That has opportunity for abuse written all over it.

In 2005 we helped someone who had done exactly that, to leave. Helped them open an account, get everything together to make the leap. But it was a man who was suffering coercive control (before it was a crime) by his wife. She had him explaining every mile on his car's mileometer by that point. Giving him £4.20 a day. Controlling which sandwich he could buy for lunch.

It is those basic mistakes that must be avoided.

Do you have any understanding of how DV works?

Who would be foolish enough to stay with someone who hits them? Or controls them? Or sexually assaulted them? Or swears and screams at them? Or stops them seeing family and friends?

That's the whole issue. The psychological abuse and distortion comes well before anything physical and is the root cause of why victims stay.

You seem to have a very limited understanding of this.

I can't imagine going to a DV worker for support to leave to be told 'how are you foolish enough to have all wages paid into the abusers account?'

Really helpful that.

OP posts:
lanadelgrey · 14/12/2024 10:08

On average it takes seven attempts for a woman to leave an abusive partner.
The analogy for a woman who appears not to act in what the outside world sees as her best interests is of a frog being boiled slowly. By the time things are undeniably awful she can feel she has no agency to change her situation, no power to manage her life, no friends or family to help. She believes she will lose the DC and be labelled crazy by her abusive partner.
Please set up a regular donation to your local branch of Women’s Aid, volunteer as a helpline worker. No volunteers, no money and there is no service to offer those who need it

Meadowfinch · 14/12/2024 09:57

@Loadsapandas No-one voted for men to be able to abuse their partners (or vice versa).

Wonderingpigeon · 14/12/2024 09:55

I always find it weird in DV. That they say the woman is unsafe and not safeguarding children if she doesn't leave and they would take the kids from her over that risk..
But then give the kids to stay alone with the abuser...

Make that make sense...

jellykitkat · 14/12/2024 09:55

Meadowfinch · 14/12/2024 09:50

OP, who is foolish enough to pay their salary into someone else's account? Literally giving independence away. That has opportunity for abuse written all over it.

In 2005 we helped someone who had done exactly that, to leave. Helped them open an account, get everything together to make the leap. But it was a man who was suffering coercive control (before it was a crime) by his wife. She had him explaining every mile on his car's mileometer by that point. Giving him £4.20 a day. Controlling which sandwich he could buy for lunch.

It is those basic mistakes that must be avoided.

Please do not describe being a victim of financial abuse as being ‘foolish’.

Meadowfinch · 14/12/2024 09:50

OP, who is foolish enough to pay their salary into someone else's account? Literally giving independence away. That has opportunity for abuse written all over it.

In 2005 we helped someone who had done exactly that, to leave. Helped them open an account, get everything together to make the leap. But it was a man who was suffering coercive control (before it was a crime) by his wife. She had him explaining every mile on his car's mileometer by that point. Giving him £4.20 a day. Controlling which sandwich he could buy for lunch.

It is those basic mistakes that must be avoided.

Loadsapandas · 14/12/2024 09:49

The country voted for this.

we voted for austerity again and again, we voted for services from schools to DV charities (shouldn’t even bloody existed - it’s a public service), NHS etc to be under funded and now there is no support and we are at crisis.

Help that could have been access pre 2010 has gone or is rationed, scared angry children are being raised who will be the next victims/aggressors in the future.

And the public will call them reckless, wasters, scroungers, junkies, breeders etc.

My heart goes out to those struggling. It didn’t have to be this way.

Nolegusta · 14/12/2024 09:40

Edingril · 14/12/2024 07:27

Isn't that parents responsibility?

Show quote history

We're talking about when parents don't do that.

closertoedge · 14/12/2024 09:16

I've lived this too and agree whole heartedly with everything you've said OP. Unfortunately my experiences with family court and social services particularly mean I couldn't advise anyone to think they'll care or support.

My ex is abusive enough that police and social services told me to leave or they'll investigate my ability to protect them. Not abusive enough that family court and social services won't support restricting contact until it's supervised. He yells about parental alienation, and the bruises don't matter. It's the children who suffer.

Some of the responses on this thread show where the problem is. There is no protection from abusive men. Abusive men are not a woman's responsibility.

Original poster
ChicaChow · 14/12/2024 08:49

Meadowfinch · 14/12/2024 06:26

Yabu to think it is all lip service. The staff and advisors and many police officers are desperate to help but the sheer scale of dv means resources are always stretched too thin.

The best defence for any female is to always have a career, always earn enough to be able to leave if necessary AND NEVER EVER rely on a man, financially or otherwise.

Never have more than one child under school age. Always have a reserve fund that the partner does not know about. Always maintain a support network of friends. Always have a bank account.

Mothers need to teach their daughters that. Stop promoting the fantasy of happy ever after. Bring them up to be independent. It is the only way to be safe and to ensure safety for one's children.

When we do that, there might be less need

But if your in the position where you have a job, your own income, own bank account and the ability to squirrel money into secret savings accounts then you aren't in such a severe DV relationship you have to flee with the clothes on your back.

Infact these very facts can and do work against you when you leave.

My friend who left who slept in her car in the OP, she has a good job. She's a social worker like me (how we met). Her wages were paid into his account for years. How can you save in that situation?
She wasn't entitled to any benefits or financial support because of her job. Yet she didn't have access to any money because of her situation.
She had no rights to legal aid because of her job/salary. Yet she can't take him to court to get her money back because she doesn't have the money to do so. A vicious circle.

We contacted a mutual friend when she left who we went to uni with and is another social worker but in DV to see wtf women do.
She basically said that there's a pretty specific set of circumstances when things run smoothly and victims get help and support.
Basically low income/unemployed women. With an abusive partner who is also low income/unemployed. In a rented property. If the victim calls the police during a physical violent attack in those specific circumstances then the victims hit the DV jackpot.
A police report and arrest with evidence, a court order granted or bail conditions stopping them returning to the property, access to all benefits, grants and housing. Social service support to limit/stop contact. Legal aid if the abuser wants to go to court. Often the abuser doesn't as they don't have the income/status to use court as power play.

It's actually women in middle income who gets the least help and support. Especially with a middle/high earning partner too.

OP posts:
Edingril · 14/12/2024 07:27

Thesebloominhorses · 14/12/2024 06:52

Family courts need to step up and wake up and protect children.

Isn't that parents responsibility?

Octavia64 · 14/12/2024 07:26

Yes things are better now.

I donated some money from my divorce settlement to women's aid.

Nolegusta · 14/12/2024 07:03

Octavia64 · 14/12/2024 07:00

That's why I stayed until my children were older.

It is what it is.

Even then, leaving was such as difficult and mentally taxing process that I started having dissociative seizures.

Nobody should judge you for your choices, even if they've also been in a similar situation and made different choices. I hope things are better now.

Nolegusta · 14/12/2024 07:02

verycloakanddaggers · 14/12/2024 06:36

There's much less help than there used to be, refuge places were cut, funding for support workers cut, charity grants cut, police budgets cut, court budgets cut.

There isn't the help there was.

Show quote history

There is still help though.

Summerhillsquare · 14/12/2024 07:00

Meadowfinch · 14/12/2024 06:26

Yabu to think it is all lip service. The staff and advisors and many police officers are desperate to help but the sheer scale of dv means resources are always stretched too thin.

The best defence for any female is to always have a career, always earn enough to be able to leave if necessary AND NEVER EVER rely on a man, financially or otherwise.

Never have more than one child under school age. Always have a reserve fund that the partner does not know about. Always maintain a support network of friends. Always have a bank account.

Mothers need to teach their daughters that. Stop promoting the fantasy of happy ever after. Bring them up to be independent. It is the only way to be safe and to ensure safety for one's children.

When we do that, there might be less need

You're right of course but what a life. My life in fact, I am uber independent and always was (upbringing with flaky parents made me wary), and just as I started to let down my guard with ehH he turned nasty. I can tell you its a good life on the surface but lonely.

I guess this is why the woment movement in South Korea emphasises independence. 4 Rs I think its called.

As I've said here before, womens communes are the answer!

Octavia64 · 14/12/2024 07:00

That's why I stayed until my children were older.

It is what it is.

Even then, leaving was such as difficult and mentally taxing process that I started having dissociative seizures.

MyPithyPoster · 14/12/2024 06:55

Men with financial resources weaponise the family courts that need saying out loud once and for all.

Thesebloominhorses · 14/12/2024 06:52

Family courts need to step up and wake up and protect children.

Thesebloominhorses · 14/12/2024 06:40

I’ve repeated this on here and in real life every time someone asks ‘why don’t they just leave’

the law and family courts will force mothers to hand their child to the perpetrator who will then be with them alone perhaps 50% of the time. Force them to go in mediation or parenting courses together. Risk being accused of parental alienation and the perpetrator having main residence of the child.

for those who’ve no sympathy because the women keep going back or won’t leave. Just try and imagine handing your most precious and loved child over to the care of someone who you know will cause them harm. Who You know your child might be terrified of. Imagine your child is sobbing and screaming not to leave you and you are blamed by the courts and have to force your child into that unsafe environment.

Now an alternative is to stay in the relationship, shield the child, probably pick up 99% of the parenting. Therefore proving more safeguarding for the child. And there is your answer.

a colleague of mine was told by social services if she didn’t leave her husband her children would be put in foster care due to witnessing domestic advise. So she left him. Then the family courts granted him 50/50. Because apparently if she wasn’t there they were witnessing abuse.. oh wait, no prizes for guessing what happened next huh

Porkyporkchop · 14/12/2024 06:38

I have worked with women and kids who have had multiple moves as they keep getting back with the perpetrator and tell them their address. It’s a nightmare for the LA and social care who are trying to find safe place to stay for the family and schools for the kids. This is why you need to have left the relationship before they help, as a lot of women plan to leave and don’t follow through, telling their partner of the plans and addresses when on the spot.

edited to say - no victim blame here. These women are in a nightmare and they can’t see out through fear and confusion during this terrible time, but it’s tough all round and more services are needed.

verycloakanddaggers · 14/12/2024 06:36

Nolegusta · 14/12/2024 06:34

There is help but unfortunately the abuse has left many victims too emotionally or physically weak to access it. Abuse becomes a normal part of life, sometimes gradually. It's not that they don't want or deserve help, it's often that they've been so broken down that they struggle to believe they deserve more. 😑

There's much less help than there used to be, refuge places were cut, funding for support workers cut, charity grants cut, police budgets cut, court budgets cut.

There isn't the help there was.

Nolegusta · 14/12/2024 06:34

There is help but unfortunately the abuse has left many victims too emotionally or physically weak to access it. Abuse becomes a normal part of life, sometimes gradually. It's not that they don't want or deserve help, it's often that they've been so broken down that they struggle to believe they deserve more. 😑

verycloakanddaggers · 14/12/2024 06:32

Edingril · 14/12/2024 02:29

What is the answer police and other social services of varying descriptions work with the women get them away then they run back

People can't endless help people who refuse to help themselves

There is so many children that are bing harmed from adults where these children have no choices, adults do have choices, the resources that are available need to help children

Services were systematically and deliberately cut from 2010.

There should be more support for women, as there was before 2010.

Of course the police should help - domestic violence is a crime. Of course social services should help - domestic violence is a crime.