to find this really chilling.. :-( [MNHQ CONTENT WARNING: sexual assault]

@UniqueOP call me cynical but I imagine people in positions of power benefit in some way from the things they fail to clamp down on. I wonder how many people in positions of power are actually psychopaths, perverts, peadophiles dressed up as ' caring for our best interests'. I wonder how many judges are actually abusive arseholes or worse, how many jurors in respectable jobs actually go home and emotionally abuse their wives. I think the truth is people are hideous and the number and extent of it is so disturbing we just can't comprehend the true scale of it, especially regards men. I now believe Germaine was right and I feel sick to admit it. It's horrifying.

I think it's always been this way but the access to the stories is now 24/7. We hear more about these awful things because of the media now like you say. I can see how the increase in access to things like porn absolutely will breed even more terrifying mindsets as this generation and the next grows.

The amount of true crime stories I've heard where the most disgusting and depraved sexual abuse occurred unchecked in previous generations just fails to shock me now. No one really listened before but now we have to because it's being brought to our attention via access to news and info 24/7 and not swept under the rug as it would have been.

Increasingly I think that bringing back the death penalty for men like this would be an enormous vote winner. I like to believe in Redemption and rehabilitation but for some I'm not sure it's even possible.

It does seem like there's more violence against women now than a few decades go, although I have no statistics. Is it the case? Or is it that we're exposed to SO MANY more news stories about it now, since we have continuous news? Before the internet, it was 30 mins of TV news and the newspapers once a day.

On the other hand, the population is much larger than it was 30-40 years ago, so there are proportionally more bad people. I also think that there are more drugs, more violent films, and obviously hardcore porn available at people's fingertips. This must absolutely have affected people who, in times gone by, could have gone either way. We have had evil people since time began, but perhaps there are more who have been affected by the evils in society that I just mentioned, who might not have gone that way if they'd been born in gentler times.

While I'm the last person who would ever want to go back to more conventional times, I think that probably less family breakdown, more community, more churchgoing etc probably helped society keep a lid on potentially bad characters better, due to social constraints.

Going backwards isn't the answer, though. We need to get rid of drugs and online porn, I'm sure society would be a lot better. Why oh why don't governments ban this extreme stuff?

10 years and 8 months? How is his rehabilitation going to be that sound that a parole board can allow him access to women again? It's not as if he is going to be surrounded by unarmed women in a male prison is he. How is he going to learn that what he did was one of the most heinous of crimes?

Our system of punishment is lax at least. Id be giving someone who beat their pet to death a sentence of death by fire, so you now know I don't favour our judicial system.

‘The worst thing about getting older isn't getting wrinkles or the brain fog or the dodgy pelvic floor, it's the realisation that Germaine Greer was right when she said that 'women have very little idea how much men hate them'.

So true.

I’m lucky enough to have been in some situations that could have turned nasty easily when younger but never did thankfully. As an older woman I realise now there are many many mysogynists out there - inadequate men who watch violent porn and just hate us.

Not enough men intervene or campaign against the Andrew Tates of this world or speak out on the pathetic odds ever of getting your rapist brought to trial. They really need to make their voice heard more.

The French case is utterly horrifying. Before it, I would never have believed that you could get FIFTY men in a small area to come and do something like that. It really is an eye-opener.

Deep down, they must surely know how pathetic, weak, and completely inadequate they are (not to mention monstrous) if they can't get enthusiastic consent from a woman for sex and have to get it this way. Sleeping with someone who's unconscious is the lowest of the low, and I hope they know what it makes them.

I'm raging. I'm sick and tired of it.

Any other minority group and something would be being done. But the violence against women, legitimised by porn (who would hinder stop a man getting off no matter how violent the content) just goes on and on.

Occasionally I've seen someone absolutely fast asleep in public, like on the Tube or at an airport while waiting for a delayed flight. Completely away with the fairies, deeply asleep, snoring and everything. It has occurred to me as I've seen them how totally vulnerable they are. It's just not a good idea to drop off in public, even if somewhere a bit more sheltered like an airport. At best you risk your belongings being stolen. I'm not blaming her at all, I'm just reflecting. The blame lies with the perpetrator 100 percent, but the fact remains that we should all probably try not to sleep in public. I've done it while waiting for a flight, years ago, and now I realise that it's probably not a good idea.

You probably can, mostly. It was very unfortunate that someone this depraved came along when they did.

Oh god, did the young woman in question say that?? That's terrible. We don't need certain men in our society to feel more entitled than they already do!

That poor woman. Just horrific.

And how ironic that the very first post was from a man, here to explain to us that NAMALT.

RIP Natalie.

Am l naive to hope that someone should be able to fall asleep on a bench, without someone, raping them repeatedly and ending their life.

@Over40Overdating yes, you're spot on. I try challenge myself and my thinking so I'm not always defaulting to the women's behaviour as the issue. But, yes, I saw this as enabling, even though they are too stupid to understand or care at this point. Fame and money seems to trump everything, supported by their own mum it seems.

These men were utterly disgusting. There were guys in the video I saw saying ' this is what good girls do ' and then another one would chip in saying ' yeah, you girls are good girls '.

And therein lies the problem. So many guys want this to be the norm , this ' good girl' attitude where you're happy to be half choked getting it rammed down your throat.

What? That doesn’t even make sense and not the point that @Over40Overdating was making

It's horrific when people take advantage but I still say we have a responsibility to remain aware of evil in the world. If we are intentionally drugged that's a whole different case.

So true. I had a friend from about 5 years old, who when we grew up was a controlling manipulative fuckwit with girls. Yet even though they knew it, girl after girl would go out with him...he would give them a time limit to use the loo...needless to say I distanced myself after trying to tell the 3 girl he was wrong

@steff13 oh that’s ok then. Back to blaming women for getting drunk. Being out after dark. Making bad decisions. Existing.
Much better plan. God forbid we ever forget it will be our fault because we aren’t perfect 24/7 and men just can’t be taught.

@Tittat50 I feel that anger too and for me it comes from feeling like those women are supporting the stereotypes of ‘men can cheat if their wives don’t service their needs at all times’ or ‘sex is only about what a man does to a woman’ or ‘sex is a transactional act for the pleasure of men or women are just holes for men to use’.

How do we change men treating women like wank socks if there are women like these two pick mes saying ‘not all women. We aren’t like other girls’ ?

It’s reckless, reductive and regressive and whilst they might make money for a short time and then fade into obscurity, in the short term more men, especially young men, see these girls as the standard of how women should behave during sexual encounters. Available, compliant, passive and disposable.
By the time these two fools grow up enough to regret their actions, how many women have been harmed by attitudes they empowered.

Do you really think men rape women because no one has bothered to mention to them that it's not ok?

@Onceuponatime9 I’d much rather men be educated not to rape women regardless of what situation they are in. And if they won’t be educated into behaving with humanity, being castrated or otherwise terrified into it is fine.

Men rape their wives, children, mothers, sisters, animals, corpses. They rape sober women, drunk women, sleeping women, walking women. They do not need a free pass.

Women do not need to be educated.

Between this. Sara Sharif and the French rape
case, it’s been a shocking few months. All three of these cases reach new depths of depravity and sadism. It’s so depressing.

@UniqueOP yes that makes complete sense.

I think there's something severely abnormal for them to do this. I just can't comprehend that the main girl leading it and doing TV interviews has support of her parents! It could be staged of course but it sounds like they are supporting it and this is just as deranged as she is ffs.
I was very promiscuous growing up. If I could parent that young woman I was, I would absolutely have stepped in and said why are you doing this, you are worth so much more, this is so dangerous and damaging mentally and this is what this does to young women psychologically. No one did do that and that really pisses me off tbh.

I think alot of my frustration here is the fact the young lady goes on TV saying wives are lazy and should be servicing their men appropriately so they don't need sex workers. I fear a large proportion of men will buy into that and apply that mentality!

Fair enough to educate women. Women are vulnerable for a reason, whether it's through lack of education, substance abuse, mental illness or previous traumatic experiences. Most women don't put themselves in that situation intentionally.

There's this idea of the perfect rape victim and the perfect perpetrator where it's all really obvious. This situation doesn't exist though. He took her life and that should be enough for anyone to condemn him.

I mean who would do such a thing as to stick his penis into the mouth of an unconscious woman? It's gross and vile.

You wrote: I notice even I reserve most my anger at these two young women and it's the 100 plus disgusting men who are the problem. I don't know why even liberal minded women can default to this thinking.

It's probably because you recognise that the women have agency and that it's their choice to do this, and they don't HAVE to let 100 men do the things you describe. But you probably feel frustration rather than anger, that two women would let themselves be debased like this and no one is helping them or stopping it. I say "helping them" because I think that you, like most people, recognise that there is something deeply, deeply wrong with this scenario, even though the women are acting from free choice.

If I was their family or friends, I'd be very worried about their mental health, that there is something very wrong psychologically to do this. I'd be worried that they are a suicide risk, either now or from the future consequences. I wonder if it would be possible for a family member to section them, on the grounds that this is extremely abnormal and disturbing behaviour. I would certainly be looking into it, if I was a parent of either of these young women.

I feel very, very sorry for the two women. Clearly something is not right, and they will have to live with the consequences and memories of these episodes forever.

She felt asleep on a bench, sounds like you’re victim blaming.It’s irrelevant if someone has drank alcohol or taken drugs.