To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

Because of convenience for the business. If they weren’t bothered about encouraging mothers into their space they wouldn’t install one at all, given we’ve established it’s not a legal requirement. Like mother and baby parking spaces - they’re to attract your custom not to meet a statutory obligation.

This is the most unintentionally funny statement l’ve ever seen on MN - even more so because it’s on a thread burgeoning with parental entitlement !!!

Anything that combines facilities that disabled people have campaigned for with another group (unless at the same time significantly increasing the amount of provision - as if!) is going to leave those with disabilities who need the provision at a disadvantage.

a person with a disability will have one toilet they can access, one space on the bus they can access. Two or three spaces in the car park. If those facilities are then expected to be shared with another large group they are left unable to access what they need to access normal day to day life.

So why are so many of them sited in disabled toilets ?

When you come across car parks combining parent and child and disabled spaces you need to complain to your local council. Parent and child parking is a concession, not a legal right, whereas provision of dedicated blue badge parking is a legal requirement. They are breaking the law. Disabled people are not required to compete with other groups for their parking spaces - they are a stand alone provision.

I just felt like the owner was passive aggressively calling me inconsiderate

They really weren't. This is really disordered thinking on your part @DefendingPan .

There are signs and announcements all around us that are reminders to some people to act considerately or within the law. I see and hear them and recognise them for what they are. If they don't apply to me (like the speaker reminder not to travel on my train without a ticket on my train, and what would happen if I did, the other day) I pay them no mind.

You took that sign personally?
I think you need therapy! And yes of course put the baby shelf back! You seriously needed to be told that?!

It can be really difficult to speak up when we need to. I'm autistic and can't always communicate.

I'm a wheelchair user and I now have to avoid certain places I once adored because of the total lack of foresight and planning for disabled people, and the impact that a high level of families visiting has on the two disabled facilities at that location.

Some of the comments on this thread have made me think some very uncharitable thoughts. The one earlier on about mums and dads having no thought towards their needs - seriously, there are many things you can do depending on where you are, what you've had the genius to pack with you and how old your child is etc.

A poonami might seem urgent but compared to a disabled person having to deal with their own poonami as a result of the wait for you, I somewhat think it's worse to be an adult in that situation than a baby, no?

Maybe it’s to remind the people go in there to vape, shag or shoot heroin.

The issue is it probably isn't strictly one single thing. It could be a plethora of things. A list too long to put on one simple sign.

See attached title page
Baby changing facilities discussed 6 June 2023 Parliament

Theres one Lord that notes the cost of installing units as £2500 to £5000, a lot for a small business
It’s no surprise that Smaller businesses these days have one unisex, accessible WC with integral baby changing unit ( disabled people have children too ). Due to cost and space constraints.
Given the debate last year, the House of Lords, at least questioned us becoming to much of a nanny state……
haven’t seen any recent debate info in the House of Commons

In some places, car parks are now doing a 'shared use' system for disabled/mother and baby spaces.

Yes it pisses me off every bit as much as the 'only baby change is in the disabled toilets' thing.

FYI, all of who who either have a radar key or will go and ask for one at customer services.

Many places that lock the disabled toilets and then make you ask for a key, have intentionally fitted the lock incorrectly (wrong way round) so that it can be opened with the key even if someone is in there and has locked it behind them.

Do keep this in mind when using the facilities, as it means if you used your own key, then a person who has been handed the key may not realise and just unlock the door and walk in. And of course someone with their own key may do same.

Most disabled toilets, its actually then impossible to tell if it is simply locked but vacant, or locked and occupied and there are people who won't SAY anything when you knock on the door (and there are people who just don't knock.)

That sounds really stressful. It must be really tough. I hope you're OK and have support IRL.

Mothers and babies are treated with contempt on mn.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on Mumsnet.

Blue badge spots weren’t converted into P&C spaces, though.

Baby change was placed in the disabled toilet because only the disabled toilet has enough room for it - standard cubicles do not. As others have pointed out, some businesses have created large cubicles within the main cubicles and placed baby change in there - that isn’t a watering down of disabled facilities. But where baby change has been put solely in the disabled toilets, that facility has become available only because disabled people campaigned for the original space.

The same is true of wheelchair spaces on buses, which are now only wheelchair-priority because accessibility has taken over and the space is co-opted by pram-users.

The retailer may not have consciously decided “oh I love these new mum customers, I’ll screw over disabled people to cater to them”, but that is the natural consequence of baby change being put in the only space large enough to accommodate it, being also the only space large enough for wheelchair users. Had that fight not been won, there would’ve been nowhere to put baby change at all without retailers creating brand new spaces (and we’ll see how many value parent customers that much if the legislation changes to prevent businesses from putting baby change in the wheelchair-toilets).

It’s bloody hard work and limiting taking out a teenager who will throw a fit and start attacking you because their chips aren’t the right shade of beige. Sadly as they’ve got older and now as a young adult it’s impossible to manage as a sole carer. But accessing toilets hasn’t been part of the issue, no.

Yes! Exactly my point - the inclusion of changing spaces is not a natural consequence of disabled toilets or accessible toilets, but a conscious business decision to accommodate customers with children and encourage them into that space.

It doesn’t need to be suggested. Those of us who have lived experience know it happens. An able bodied mother leaving the house absolutely does NOT compare with the planning needed to get a profoundly disabled person out and about. You say you have been a carer yourself. Haven’t learned much from it have you ?

Nonsense. Sorry but it’s so obvious that you’ve had a quick google. Those of us who have lived this journey and been part of the fight for our rights know different.

Mother and child parking spaces are a concession and not subject to legal enforcement.

Wholeheartedly agree. But the present system doesn’t support that, and that’s the problem.

Absolutely nobody is denying that being the mother of a new baby is challenging.....but it is not the responsibility of disabled people or their carers to alleviate that.

You denied that anyone has said that mothers should demand priority over the disabled trying to use their own facility; that is disingenuous when there has been post after post on here suggesting that people with their own specific needs need to 'rub along' with each other. I know from personal experience that this doesn't work and the disadvantaged minority group comes off worse.

You then implied that there is some kind of parity of need between them, 'mothers have it hard too'. A poster above has even directly suggested this by helpfully reminding us that babies are immobile & incontinent. As the parent of a DS who was once a baby and is now a severely disabled adult, I utterly refute that there is any kind of parity of need & frankly am deeply offended and disappointed that on MN I need to state this obvious truth.

I’ve no doubt that navigating public spaces with a wheelchair user is incredibly difficult. My niece uses a wheelchair but (mood dependent) can get in and out herself so it’s not the same as someone who isn’t able to support themselves standing at all.

I think both parents and the disabled and anyone who falls into both categories should be accommodated and should be treated with respect and dignity. Neither groups presence should serve to exclude the other.

What's pfb behaviour? Not leaving your defenceless baby unattended outside of a cubicle or wanting to change your babies soiled nappy isn't pfb behaviour. It's basic care and safeguarding of a vulnerable person.