To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

Absolutely this!

Of course people with a disability should have public bathrooms that accommodate them. That’s a human right.

Parents with young babies / children also should have spaces that accommodate them. Nappy changes are essential to caring for babies, and there needs to be more changing tables - especially in the men’s room.

Breastfeeding mothers should also be accommodated and it’s such a shame that they aren’t made to feel welcome feeding whenever and wherever. Culturally some women need private spaces to breastfeed as well. The toilet shouldn’t be that place but if there’s no private parents / breastfeeding rooms available there will be even more pressure on accessible toilets.

The fact that each of these groups aren’t adequately provided for is why we have these issues and people deciding who is more “deserving” is so frustrating and unnecessary. Just creates ill feeling towards both new mothers and those will a disability. Such a shame.

I think so. Propping up businesses that can’t even afford to operate legally is a net cost to the Treasury, not a net gain.

Hmmm... we'll that'd be helpful to the economy, wouldn't it?

Then they should be shut down. Why should even small businesses expect taxpayers to cover any minimum cost to operate legally?

Should, yes. But, if it's not happening it's not helping and those that need access aren't being helped by inaction.
It's not big business, btw, that I had in mind. A lot of small businesses don't have extra funds.

No. Businesses clinging on to profits is what is making governments bankrupt, the last thing we need is our taxes paying for businesses like Starbucks and the like to meet equality laws and provide accessible facilities. That is a cost of being a business, they should pay for it themselves.

Maybe instead of fighting each other, disabled v parents with small children, we can all agree facilities are woefully lacking for both. My mum is disabled and uses a wheelchair. I can't tell you how many times she's tried to access a wheelchair washroom to find mops and buckets or boxes stored in it. There should be grants for businesses to make their facilities accessible.

Probably because some parents can be very pushy and entitled and think a baby with a dirty nappy has priority over a middle aged adult with IBS.

Pram or pushchair, changing mat on the floor of the main toilets, boot of your car if it’s nearby, on your lap in a cubicle (or child standing in the cubicle if they’re too big for lap) …

Probably faffing. Some people do faff needlessly (whether parents or not) but this is a place / situation where any faffing could impact on others.

But yes I agree with pps- baby change and disabled loo together is a bad idea. Why not just put a table in each of the men’s and women’s loos? Or have a separate space for it altogether?

Create the demand then.

Us disabled people created that demand for accessible facilities 30/40 years ago.

Parents without disabilities/without kids with disabilities have been riding our fucking coat tails ever since...

Ive said it before, several times and every time there is absolutely fuck all response, a yawning void, tumbleweeds... This is the biggest forum on the internet for parents and indeed, in general.

It would be VERY possible to start an effective campaign for separate facilities, for not sharing and encroaching on accessible facilities for disabled people.

It's super easy to get offended by a sign that might not even be referring to you, or to say you don't like using the facilities but sometimes you feel you have to... and then do absolutely bugger all about it, because after all, you'll only need to for a handful of years.

Takes a smidgen more effort to start a campaign or to just register a complaint at each business you use that could provide seperate facilities and doesn't.

DS was absolutely terrified of hand dryers, and had a tendency to leg it. Eventually found out he's autistic.

So no, not necessarily perfectly safe.

I'd take it to mean don't leave a mess since that could make access more difficult as would not putting the table back up.

I've nursed in the toilet, btw. I carry antibac cleaning wipes. I've wiped everything down, then sat on the toilet holding baby to nurse. I'm not super comfortable doing it in public, although I recently did it as discreetly as poss facing a corner in a warming tent at a Christmas market.
I've also had to change my baby and toddler on the floor in the bathroom as well. Used the wipes on the floor, laid down a towel I carry, then a change mat.

I didn't say it did. I'm always as quick as possible and leave the place as I found it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Jimmyneutronsforehead the kids needing the loo is less of an issue. It’s when I need to go with them. I cannot squat on a travel potty. I can safety supervise two kids when they go - but cannot when I am peeing.

Quite. The notion that single use facilities are always in walking distance is a marvel in itself.

They are not giving up access as the access is included

however if women had approx three times more facilities than men ( currently it’s the same number in most public buildings ) then there would be plenty for all.
There would also need to be far more larger cubicles also in order to allow for the ambulant disabled, those with children and even luggage ( yes that’s also included as part of the description for those needing accessible toilets )

As it stands there isn’t and until there is we have to work with what we’ve got.

Because many people need reminding that though life might be challenging for them that for disabled people there are even more challenges

Not necessarily only women in the toilet though (depending on your definition of 'woman').

Anger is a perfectly acceptable response! It’s infuriating to me too.

@fitzwilliamdarcy thank you, this is how I should have worded it without letting myself get het up and angry!

Not disagreeing generally with the idea disabled prime have priority, but where else can you take the baby if it's the only baby change?

This reminds me so much of the threads about mums bringing their 8+ year old boys into female changing rooms and saying, so what if it means girls can’t use them? My child’s safety is the only thing that should matter.

They, too, should campaign for space that fits their own needs. But they don’t, because the pain is temporary and they can just use space that’s meant for someone else. Bonus points if they argue that it’s somehow also for them when it isn’t.

Some people are just inherently selfish and only care about their own circumstances. No amount of signage will change that. They don’t care.

I have a disabled relative too, in particular a teenage niece who is a wheelchair user and severe learning disabilities and so needs assistance to use the toilet and, on occasion, be changed if she has soiled herself.

When I soil myself I also need assistance to be changed because of my disabilities. It's hugely humiliating and I don't always have someone to support me when this happens. It shouldn't happen because there should be adequate facilities for me to use before it gets past the point of urgency. When the facilities are left for the right people it's more likely that those who need it will get to use them in a timely manner and mitigate accidents.

I don’t take her out so much now but pre children I did frequently.

Its hard to tell from your post if she no longer gets out at all as frequently or if someone else has taken over and she still gets out but if she can't get out more frequently then surely you can understand how isolating having a disability can be, especially if you have had multiple instances of soiling and no immediate support because of barriers to accessing disability accessible facilities.

My views are not formed from a lack of experience of disability and the challenges being disabled poses.

Its a tale. How can you have those experiences and still think that you and your 2 non-disabled children could trump the needs of your neice or those like her? If they were all in a line outside the facilities who would you let in first?

Again, it’s a balance of needs.

Right. I get it. Some cubicles are small. Some. But you have the privilege of being able to go and locate facilities that can accomodate you and your 2 children. If your kids are young you can use a travel potty if they have urgency issues. You can stand outside a cubicle while they both go in together. Many facilities have a larger cubicle within their main toilet facilities separate from the accessible disabled toilets. If one establishment doesn't have this there will be one nearby that does in most places unless you live in the outer hebrides. Whatever the area there will be a solution that means you can toilet your children safely.

You are mixing your convenience with our necessity. It's convenient because you're guaranteed to keep your children in one space in these toilets, but it's necessary for those services to be there because us disabled can't access the other facilities available with ease or at all.

But the allocation for those with disabilities is even worse. They shouldn’t be expected to
give up access to the only toilet they can access for other groups.