To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

That is a totally fair POV re prioritising needs.

And in my personal experience as a disabled person, that doesn’t happen often. There is one accessible stand alone loo in each of our local supermarkets. There’s always a queue. And local pubs and other outlets are the same - with the added joy that they double as baby changing facilities. In the quest for inclusion we’ve replaced ‘disabled’ with ‘accessible’ and now it’s a free for all for those who really don’t need it.

I’m disabled. In a wheelchair and have a stoma and continence issues. I have to say I’ve very rarely experienced the kinds of attitudes some have expressed here in real life. Ironically, I’ve always found that mums with children are more empathetic and eager to help - possibly because caring for their children make them more aware of the potential needs of disabled people.

I do think that in our efforts as a society to include absolutely everyone, we’ve inadvertently caused problems for disabled people by ditching the term ‘disabled toilet’ and going for ‘accessible toilet’ instead. It takes away any priority a disabled person has in using these facilities when they really need them. Wheelchair users and many others with other mobility issues simply don’t have the option of using a standard toilet if the accessible one is in use, and for some, the consequences of not being able to access the facilities will inevitably be embarrassing. Some here might want to thank their lucky stars that they don’t have such problems themselves and rethink their attitudes.

Yes.
Seems like the problem isn't that there's a sign, it's that it's not clear enough for those with a deficit in one or more of basic intelligence, imagination or empathy.

This thread has really bummed me out. It's interesting because surely disability is something that can happen to any of us or indeed, becoming a carer to a disabled person. Why do so many lack basic empathy. I really hope this thread isn't representatives of the population at large.

I’m so sorry. Continence problems and stoma issues can be very socially limiting in their effects, and as always, it doesn’t help when the reason you need a disabled loo isn’t immediately obvious. There’s always someone around to say ‘you don’t look very disabled’.

And this thread demonstrates why my late husband was reluctant to go far when his stage 4 bowel cancer resulted in him having a stoma.

... No.

I have intermittent incontinence, some vague bladder/bowel issues that are unpredictable and come and go so some weeks I don't know if I need a wee or a poo until its too late, or the slightest cough, flinch from pain (which I do a lot), twist the wrong way.. and ooops... In times like that I need to go often to try and stay empty, but I do often need to go urgently.

Catheters would be of no use and would just increase risk infection and pain for me and probably make my bladder much worse than it already is.

Catheters can shift (and do lots of other things) and bypass.

Yep. This. And the reason that stand alone disabled bathrooms designed to accommodate a wheelchair and a carer were always kept locked. Disabled people were issued a radar key on request and with proof of disability, thus ensuring that they could always access a toilet when needed. However, in the name of inclusivity now everyone can use them, regardless of whether they’re disabled or not.

Realistically if there’s a queue for the standard toilets, it will spill over to the accessible one and then people get defensive. As I found out to my cost when I wheeled into Sainsburys toilets, and there were long queues for both facilities. I never opened my mouth, but several people decided to loudly tell me that I don’t have priority and should get to the back of the queue. It was interesting to note that the queue for the standard facilities reduced much quicker than that for the disabled toilet, but very few people crossed over.

This is just nonsense. Do you not realise that people with continence issues are disabled, by that very condition ? IBS, Crohns, bowel cancer, and a host of other continence issues are all disabilities. Incontinence issues are very often part and parcel of other physical disabilties, and wheelchair users will very often have spinal injuries which affect continence - all of these people, including stoma users need the accessible toilet, not least for the privacy and the washing facilities next to the toilet.

If you think that needing to use a disabled facility for incontinence is queue jumping then you’ve very obviously never been in a queue for the disabled toilet on the point of shitting yourself in public, or praying that your leaking stoma bag doesn’t explode before you get access. Most disabled people are courteous to one another - they recognise the difficulties disability brings. I’m a wheelchair user and have a stoma. If it’s humanly possible for me to let another disabled person in difficulty go in front of me, I will. Clearly, if this thread is anything to go by, others are not so considerate.

I agree 100%

Also a minor gripe and I'm probably being unrealistic because it's environmentally impactful but it would be a huge benefit if many busy toilet facilities could swap to paper towels.

Both DS and I cannot cope with hand dryers that are busier than Clapham junction but if theyd just swap to paper towels it would make the normal toilet facilities slightly more accessible.

Agree.

Another example of that well known empathy that parents acquire on giving birth 🙄

Yep, it’s common sense. This is why I really think that for the stand alone bathroom facilities intended to accommodate a wheelchair and a carer, the system of having them permanently locked and issuing a radar key on evidence of disability should be reintroduced. There are larger cubicles within standard toilets, called ambulant facilities and these often provide a wash basin next to the loo. Many people will be able to access these and they’re available for non disabled people who just need a bit more room to manoeuvre. The stand alone facilities should be left free for those with more severe disabilities, wheelchair users and stoma/continence issues.

Mums and dads please remember to put your needs and those of your child behind absolutely everyone else who exists, less you be judged as entitled for using basic amenities like toilets

Fucking hell. Just have a bit of a think, eh? Be grateful it's not you needing to use a disabled toilet.

I can’t usually go to another store because I’ve got about 2 mins before I will have an accident (I’ve had 4 kids so I suppose you could say I brought that on myself!)

If you have urgency and incontinence issues and they then you are very likely in the primary group of need for accessible toilets. Urgency issues are disabling.

The point many of us are making is that urgency that is outside of your control due to damage or disability is different to people simply using the facilities for convenience when there are alternatives nearby for them to use like the larger cubicles, but a short walk away which they can manage. We know that people with disabilities can also be parents so might still need to use that space. Some of our kids might also be disabled and need that space.

Thank you @Jimmyneutronsforehead
Sadly a lot of T1 diabetics are forced into toilet cubicles to inject in private.
The worst thing though is the need for a sign to remind parents that a disabled cubicle isn't solely for their use and why do some parents just leave the nappy on the floor? We didn't leave our used needles and test strips so why do some think that that are not required to bin their child's nappy?

Im sorry you had to do that in a bathroom.

I wouldn't ever begrudge a disabled person using an accessible space to meet their needs because of their disability. Its just a shame that there are not medical spaces that are more hygienic built into infrastructure, especially given that diabetes isn't exactly a rare condition and there are many other people with conditions that would benefit from knowing there are spaces they can go to meet their non-bathroom medical needs. Nobody should be forced into an unhygienic public bathroom to receive medical treatment.

I used to have to use the disabled toilet to inject my DC with insulin because they have a hand basin and enough space to get the kit out. It just wasn't possible in normal size toilet cubicles as they're too small. At the time we were injecting in the thigh so trousers had to be taken down which isn't something anyone wants to do or see in public. I always felt guilty about using the disabled toilet and did get tutted or shouted at a few times by wheelchair users but also by parents who thought that their need to use a baby changer was more important than our genuine medical needs.

You need to make that judgment call about the best thing to do; all we ask is that you prioritise the needs of the primary users of the disabled facilities in the way they should be prioritised. I point out that your children are small for only a very short period then things will get easier for you, whereas a disability is usually for life and is definitely not a lifestyle choice made by anyone.

There’s a poster on this very thread who has said children are a lifestyle choice and therefore a small baby with a poonami should have to wait until the mother is finished in the restaurant. I can’t usually go to another store because I’ve got about 2 mins before I will have an accident (I’ve had 4 kids so I suppose you could say I brought that on myself!)

Thank you. Same here re M&S. I can't leave a double buggy in the corridor while I have a wee. I have a few times taken it into the ladies' as it's a big enough space, but after someone wheeled it out of the way with their post-loo hands to get to their favourite sink (note, they could have got to both a sink and a dryer easily), and wheeled it in front of another cubicle (where someone nearly fell over/nearly knocked over the buggy as they weren't anticipating it being outside their door), I decided my 30-second wee could be more safely done in the disabled/buggy change loo. I hate the whole set up in most places. For everyone.

Well you may be able to use a non-disabled loo in another store that is accessible. It would be easier for you to do that than for a person in a wheelchair.

But believe it or not I actually wouldn't flame you for using it in those circumstances, provided it is a quick dash to the loo and it is not busy. If there are disabled people queuing though - forget it.

Less though of people 'screaming bloody murder' at you, as though they are coming from a place of irrational anger and are angry just for the sake of it? It is completely right for us to be angry about being edged out of the facilities intended for us, by selfish people. And nobody to my knowledge has accused parents of having children as a lifestyle choice; I chose to have my own child, although did not choose to have a child with a disability.

You’re a few pages too late. I have already been told that is not an acceptable use of the loos. I was talking about having two small kids in tow.

It was for emphasis about the sort of person who posts like this, rather than emphasising their supposed gender. I am a little impatient about having to have this debate on a thread that is meant to be about access to disabled facilities.

Just because you underlined she, that’s all.