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School removed GCSE for yr 11 student?

191 replies

LolaLouise · 13/12/2024 09:03

Posting here for traffic as i really need advice.

My daughter is in year 11, she is very strong in maths and science so picked the triple award science in her year 9 options as this would give her 3 strong GCSE grades. Today she has gone into school and we have been informed the school have withdrawn triple science as an option, and all year 11 students will be entered in to the double award instead. This means my daughter is now doing 1 less subject at GCSE than her peers, and now potentially cant get on to the college course she wanted as she was counting on the 3 sciences for the 5 grades 5+ she needs to be accepted.

Is there anything we can do? where do we stand? How can a school take away a GCSE from students 6 months before they finish?

OP posts:
mrsconradfisher · 14/12/2024 07:38

I can totally see how frustrating this is for you and your DD. My own DS had one of his GCSE’s changed to a BTEC half way through (the whole cohort not just him!) but his school did 3 year GCSE’s so they started in Y9.
My thoughts are (and I mean this very kindly)…paramedic science is incredibly competitive to get into. Many many students have to apply for 2 years just to even get an interview and that’s with all 8’s and 9’s at GCSE’s and A’s at A level. The college may accept her with 5 GCSE’s at grade 5 and I absolutely appreciate that she is dyslexic but the reality is after college it will be incredibly hard for her to get into paramedic science.

Startinganew32 · 14/12/2024 07:22

RabbitsEatPancakes · 14/12/2024 02:18

Could she pick up another subject where I'm guessing she now has a timetable gap?
Does the school offer Statistics? We did that in 6 months when I was at school. It would suit her maths side.

She has a few months until her exams so I doubt it.

RabbitsEatPancakes · 14/12/2024 02:18

Could she pick up another subject where I'm guessing she now has a timetable gap?
Does the school offer Statistics? We did that in 6 months when I was at school. It would suit her maths side.

LolaLouise · 14/12/2024 00:34

Plus, the reader in exams is allowed to read questions on exam papers, the reader is NOT allowed to read aloud any extracts of text included in the papers. So for her science papers, if she is struggling to understand a question, she can have that read to her to help. In English, if she is struggling to read a piece of text, she has to struggle, as they are not able to read the extract.

OP posts:
LolaLouise · 14/12/2024 00:29

Grammarnut · 14/12/2024 00:15

So why does she not have these problems with science?

Because they are shorter answers, she can answer in bullet point for the most part not blocks of continous text that have to flow and cover a wide varoety of points to obtain the marks. Because its facts and calculations she can remember or work out. Because English requires her to be creative on the spot and use language to articulate that creativity, something not required in a factual subject. They can prepare for English exams, the style of writing etc, but they never know 100% what the question focus will be, trying to do that under exam conditions is very difficult for her.

Im not sure why you are being so rude about it. She is naturally better at maths based subjects, she is naturally better at remebering facts than she is at being creative with language. All lot of kids hapen to be better at some subjects over other. If Id come on an said my daughter excels in English, art, drama, music, dance etc but struggles with maths, would you be as judgemental?

Dyslexia is not just about reading, pity you cant put your top notch reading skills to some use and educate yourself.

As well as the problems already mentioned, the symptoms of dyslexia in older children and adults can include:

  • poorly organised written work that lacks expression (for example, even though they may be very knowledgeable about a certain subject, they may have problems expressing that knowledge in writing)
  • difficulty planning and writing essays, letters or reports
  • difficulties revising for examinations
  • trying to avoid reading and writing whenever possible
  • difficulty taking notes or copying
  • poor spelling
  • struggling to remember things such as a PIN or telephone number
  • struggling to meet deadlines

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/dyslexia/symptoms/

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 14/12/2024 00:15

LolaLouise · 13/12/2024 13:29

None... She's not applied for A levels...

Her dyselxia arrangements are she has use of a laptop, a reader (though not just for her she is in a smaller room with 9 students and the reader is supporting all the kids in there) and 25% extra time.

To the poster who asked why she is struggling with English but not Sciences. Lol. Please educate yourself. Dyslexia is not just about reading. Yes she finds longer blocks of text harder to read, but she also struggles with writing longer pieces. She struggles to organise her thoughts, which results in her writing often being disjointed or repetitive. She also struggles with language and will use the wrong word or a similar word that has an entirely different meaning accidentally. The laptop is helping with this as she is more able to delete sections or reorganise it, particularly with the english language which is what we are focussing on, but its not solving it entirely. The laptop also doesnt have spelling or grammar checks which is another area she struggles with.

So why does she not have these problems with science?

Grammarnut · 13/12/2024 23:25

SuzieNine · 13/12/2024 12:28

OP has explained that her daughter is dyslexic. There is a vast difference between reading scientific and mathematical text, and reading (and especially writing) literature.

Reading a science text requires no less skill than a literature text. Both still require ability to decode + knowledge so that vocabulary can be understood. So, I can read Middlemarch and also a scientific textbook on relativity. Understanding of the text depends on background knowledge; my ability to decode depends on phonic knowledge. Put together and you are reading.

LarkinAboot · 13/12/2024 21:22

Sorry, now see you've answered about reasonable adjustments already. A shared reader / support doesn't sound great though. It used to be my job but I've only ever worked 121.

LarkinAboot · 13/12/2024 21:12

Butteryscone · 13/12/2024 09:57

If you are prepared to look at the syllabus in art and help her gather all her art work together to put into a portfolio, I think you may be able to pull up her gcse grade. DS was so disorganised but his drawings and paintings were ok. He mucked about in class as there was no direction from the teacher - she didn’t tell them what to do. She was going through something in her personal life I think as she just put a PowerPoint on and sat at her desk. She left soon after. It was a big shock when he was predicted a 5.
I read the syllabus and worked out DS hadn’t connected his work into coherent products or included progression (initial drawings, thoughts, ideas) in written explanations. I showed him what to do in the syllabus. He spent a solid weekend cutting out bits of printed out inspiration, quotes, and drawing some other bits that linked his pictures together. He got a 9 in the final thing.

Tbh IME the art students who were significant less talented but understood the criteria always did better than the more gifted artists with less coherent portfolios.
This is really good advice for pulling up grades.

Also (as preciously mentioned) really get on the school's case about what reasonable adjustments are in place and definitely not just for English.
She should potentially have a reader for all her subjects/ extra time.

Sorry haven't read past the reply I've quoted yet so maybe repeating.

It might be worth trying to explore which learning styles suit her too. People cope better with different ways of learning - listening, reading, doing.

GCSEs are a tough enough time without all this change but hopefully she can get higher science and grades and enough of everything else.

Perhaps terrible advice but I'd consider if English is too much for her use that tutoring time to bolster maths or geography.
Many colleges offer a functional English qualification that might be more suited to her with a greater ability to make reasonable adjustments and adaptations for her dyslexia.

Scirocco · 13/12/2024 18:49

This seems so unfair. 6s and 7s are not bad grades, and the school is taking away her opportunity to get qualifications she's worked hard for, as well as jeopardising her college offer and making her a less competitive applicant to other courses. I'd be furious, @LolaLouise .

She chose her 9 subjects, is on track to achieve her grades for her college offer, and the school is pulling this away now, when it's probably too late to do a crash course in another subject and the only real alternatives are parents spending more of their own money to make up for the opportunities taken away (sitting privately, extra tutors, etc.).

Individual science GCSEs might not be essential for STEM A-levels and degrees, but they can be very helpful. Students get more depth and breadth, so have a better foundation for subsequent studies, for applications, interviews, etc. And it's an opportunity to shine in a student's preferred subjects - if a student has an aptitude for science, why shouldn't they be able to get qualifications that reflect that, rather than having to do another subject that's less relevant and about which they're less passionate?

Having 8 GCSEs rather than 9 could put her and others at a disadvantage in general, too. When I sat GCSEs, the expectation was that 9 was the minimum for the courses that interested me, and I was aware I'd be competing with people who would be sitting 10 or more. My school could only offer 9, so I ended up doing one privately just to give myself the same number as other applicants would have. At this stage in the courses, though, it's probably too close to the exams for the OP's daughter to do that, though.

I'd be furious and I wouldn't let this drop without a fight, OP. The school is screwing your daughter over. It might be worth your daughter contacting the college and explaining what's happening - they might be able to adjust the offer made or find another option somewhere.

lunar1 · 13/12/2024 18:46

People are asking a lot of irrelevant questions! My son is in year 11 doing triple science, the work is almost done and it's revision time. I'd be fuming if all of a sudden he was told he was doing one less.

I think all the parents should be at the school complaining as a group.

HarrietPierce · 13/12/2024 18:45

"Query. Why is she struggling with English if she is capable in science? They both require reading."

Many dyslexic kids can be very good at maths and science but struggle with English.

LolaLouise · 13/12/2024 18:21

Makingchocolatecake · 13/12/2024 17:58

What is the college course? As a teacher I'd say the entry requirements are designed so students don't end up on courses they will struggle in. And maybe the triple science was causing too much work for the kids? Have you asked for a reason?

I pasted in their justification, and its a flat every child taken off the triple award, even those who got 8s and 9s in the mocks. They just withdrew it entirely.

OP posts:
Makingchocolatecake · 13/12/2024 17:58

What is the college course? As a teacher I'd say the entry requirements are designed so students don't end up on courses they will struggle in. And maybe the triple science was causing too much work for the kids? Have you asked for a reason?

BogRollBOGOF · 13/12/2024 17:01

I did seperate science as double science time + one GCSE option time.
DS could be offered seperate science as an additional GCSE in double science time and his GCSE options are not affected. If it's offered to him, then withdrawn for double science, he still has the standard spread of GCSEs.

OP's DD is having one of her strongest GCSE's removed and is losing that GCSE option choice. She is disproportionately affected by this because of a lack of reliable, specialist teaching in art, and a specific learning difficulty affecting her ability to access English Literature and Language despite additional tutoring.

I would be emphisising that this is discriminatory against pupils with additional needs (with a dyslexic, autistic child, I get it and they'd be similarly impacted) because they can't compensate in other subjects across the curriculum. I would also emphisise that that by removing a whole GCSE option, they are jeopardising her conditional offer at college (which again with her SPLD, she has fewer appropriate academic options to play to her strengths as she creates foundations for her career path.

I hope the parents meeting is constructive and can result in a re-evaluation of this ridiculous, late change so that her education is not compromised.

wizzler · 13/12/2024 16:44

Op I would be just as frustrated as you are. You have very reasonable arguments. I would ask to see the Head and then escalate to the Governors if you get no support. It's an outrageous way to treat young people

wombat15 · 13/12/2024 15:53

TeenLifeMum · 13/12/2024 15:16

You realise there’s a few state grammars, have you done a survey? It maybe doesn’t happen in your state grammar.

There are many grammars in my area. They publish their GCSE results so can see they are doing individual science GCSEs.

Edited: I can see one is doing the combined too but most pupils do the triple.

Frowningprovidence · 13/12/2024 15:27

I wouldnt normally suggest this, as I suspect the school have a timetabling issue and this is thier only solution and for most people double science is good enough and 8 gcses is a fairly usual number.

But on this instance I might ask for the equalities impact statement they did and whether they considered the impact on neurodiverse students

LolaLouise · 13/12/2024 15:22

CarefulN0w · 13/12/2024 14:48

Yes I do understand that. I was just a bit surprised she isn't allowed it day-to-day as it might help with learning. I guess school thinks it's better without.

She has it day to day, i was answering about her exam support when it is turned off. She cannot simply learn - if that was the case dyslexia could be cured.

OP posts:
TeenLifeMum · 13/12/2024 15:16

wombat15 · 13/12/2024 11:22

It doesn't happen in state grammar schools. I'm sure if there was an advantage to pupils they would offer double awards too.

You realise there’s a few state grammars, have you done a survey? It maybe doesn’t happen in your state grammar.

titchy · 13/12/2024 14:53

Wholeheartedly agree with you OP and I hope you manage to get the school to change their minds.

To offer a bit of reassurance though, I think the Extended Diploma is a better qualification than the T level and would offer a very tried and tested route to uni so it won't be the end of the world if that's what she ends up having to do.

CarefulN0w · 13/12/2024 14:48

LIZS · 13/12/2024 14:45

Spellcheck etc has to be disabled for exam conditions.

Yes I do understand that. I was just a bit surprised she isn't allowed it day-to-day as it might help with learning. I guess school thinks it's better without.

LIZS · 13/12/2024 14:45

Spellcheck etc has to be disabled for exam conditions.

CarefulN0w · 13/12/2024 14:43

Off topic, I know but I'm interested in why her laptop software doesn't have a spell check. Have the school given a rationale?

By contrast my DD doesn't have dyslexia and uses a spellchecker extensively. Much of her written work is typed as her state school have a bring you own device expectation. I appreciate there are arguments for and against spellcheckers although most workplaces routinely use them but I'm curious to know why a school has provided a device without.

Bluevelvetsofa · 13/12/2024 14:17

It sounds as though there are enough concerned parents to push back at the meeting you spoke of OP, so that might concentrate minds in school.

She has the permitted arrangements in place for the exams, to support her dyslexia, she has a tutor, she has plenty of parental support and she’s clearly a hard worker. I’d still see what flexibility the college might offer too, when they have the information about the science situation. There may be others in a similar situation.