Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

we all agree on the need for more houses but just not here !!

269 replies

billysboy · 12/12/2024 16:25

As title really , everyone seems to agree on the need for more houses regardless of type but doesnt want them here ,
Green belt is supposed to ring fence existing settlements , I like the idea mooted this morning about Wild Belts to encourage wildlife etc ,
I cannot see how this government or any other hopes to build there way out of a crisis where in a lot of places it seems to be 10 x income to get a foot on the ladder
Ultimately it would seem lower house prices would be good for everyone apart from those in negative equity or using housing as an investment rather than a place to call home and the only way to achieve this is to oversupply the market causing prices to remain static whilst wages / income catch up
I thinks its unreasonable how long planning can take on a small domestic extension let alone 300k + house s needed per annum so cannot see how Angela Raynor thinks she will achieve this

No easy answer on this one

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Theunamedcat · 14/12/2024 06:59

Our current levels of immigration are unsustainable why does the government not care about this

MidnightMeltdown · 14/12/2024 01:59

KnittedCardi · 12/12/2024 17:09

I live in an overpopulated part of Surrey. They are trying to release agricultural green belt land for housing, but the local roads, GPs, hospitals, schools, already cannot cope. Once that green land is built on, it is lost forever. I think it is wrong to put housing above nature. We have gone too far in that direction already.

They are finally redeveloping in town, in the center on brownfield and by the station. High rise flats, but in the town, access to everything. They are also building lots of student accommodations, which in theory should free up family homes which have been hmo's.

We have to start building up in city centers. Everywhere else in the world does.

I don't think this is realistic. Our cities are already too densely populated for the infrastructure. You can just keep adding more and more people into cities and expect services to cope. Also, most people want a house with a garden, not a flat in a tower block.

With current net immigration levels, small towns and villages will need to be turned into new cities. I think this is the long term plan. Once the houses are there, demand for shops etc will grow.

MidnightMeltdown · 14/12/2024 01:34

I think that Government should focus more in building social housing along with infrastructure to support it.

LOL, I can't wait to see the response to that.

In the eyes of a NIMBY, what's worse than a housing developer building 400 homes in your quaint little village? 400 council tenants moving in.

MidnightMeltdown · 14/12/2024 01:07

I think if they are going to approve these mega developments they need to be ensuring that the infrastructure is putt in place first before any of the houses go up.

While I agree that we need better infrastructure, I think this issue is distinct from the house building issue.

Building houses doesn't create people. The people already exist and are living somewhere. The reality is that nowhere in the UK has the infrastructure to deal with this many people. All of our major cities are already hugely overcrowded, so it seems reasonable that villages should take their fair share and be expanded into cities.

Really, this isn't a housing crisis, it's a population crisis. We have a population larger than the size of Liverpool moving to the UK each year - that's a new city and a half that needs to be created every single year. You cant just keep cramming more and more people into exiting cities.

ARealitycheck · 14/12/2024 00:25

lljkk · 13/12/2024 21:03

If our Uni sector cannot survive without 300k foreign students + dependents, then it needs to shrink

There are so many alternatives how this could play out... but let's go for the obvious cost-saver one: Govt completely stops providing loans or subsidising tuition fees plus no foreign students: foreign students literally aren't allowed. Private loans for tuition etc. are still available.

RESULT: Oxbridge continues but dramatically reduced in depts because Uni applicants only want to enter the lucractive professions. Every other university closes. All our young people need to embrace non-degree trades and professions. UK trains almost no doctors because very few people can afford 5 years of tuition followed by 6 years of junior doctor salary. The only people who can get degrees are quite wealthy.

RESULT2: UK needs to import pretty much ALL of its highly qualified healthcare staff. And teachers. And engineers. And scientists... Net Immigration soars.

So I guess that's what people want when they say "Let's get rid of all the foreign students and make the UK university sector shrink."

ps: I'm not following how banning immigration would make UK young people who are unwell, suddenly be well and able to work.

There is the part missing there that points out how many of these university courses are of little use once the student finishes.

A change in financing tuition for required industries like health would help. I'd suggest a Dr would get their tuition cost written off after eg 10 years working for the NHS.

ARealitycheck · 14/12/2024 00:18

Annoys the out of me when nimbys immediately campaign against anything new being built nearby. Simply down to the fact the majority in our area are retirees who moved to the area and their actual contribution to the local economy is a negative one.

My personal feeling on new housing is we need to remove these preservation orders on buildings that nobody will ever be able to renovate due to cost restraints. Bring them down and build on them. I can think of two just off the top of my head within a few miles of me that could fit iro 300 plus homes. But no developer will touch. They both suffer repeated arson and other damage attacks with the emergency services out regularly.

louddumpernoise · 13/12/2024 22:29

lljkk · 13/12/2024 21:03

If our Uni sector cannot survive without 300k foreign students + dependents, then it needs to shrink

There are so many alternatives how this could play out... but let's go for the obvious cost-saver one: Govt completely stops providing loans or subsidising tuition fees plus no foreign students: foreign students literally aren't allowed. Private loans for tuition etc. are still available.

RESULT: Oxbridge continues but dramatically reduced in depts because Uni applicants only want to enter the lucractive professions. Every other university closes. All our young people need to embrace non-degree trades and professions. UK trains almost no doctors because very few people can afford 5 years of tuition followed by 6 years of junior doctor salary. The only people who can get degrees are quite wealthy.

RESULT2: UK needs to import pretty much ALL of its highly qualified healthcare staff. And teachers. And engineers. And scientists... Net Immigration soars.

So I guess that's what people want when they say "Let's get rid of all the foreign students and make the UK university sector shrink."

ps: I'm not following how banning immigration would make UK young people who are unwell, suddenly be well and able to work.

Why are you going to the extremes and being rather silly about it too, no has suggested what you re saying they are.

How do other countries manage & have almost free Uni education?

Why are students allowed to bring in dependents or were allowed too?

Are you really suggesting that the almost 20m people claiming some sort of disability benefit are disabled???? that none of the 3.8m on long term sick, can never work again??

If so, we are truly fucked.

Its not about banning ALL immigration but getting it down to pre Brexit levels of around 200k instead of 3 or 4x that amount.

AndThereSheGoes · 13/12/2024 22:10

Titsywoo · 13/12/2024 22:02

I live in Surrey and they have already started building on green belt land around us. It is going to be a nightmare for traffic and things like doctors appointments, schools etc. I'm all for building more homes but this is a village and they are building so many houses on any tiny bit of green land.

Same in Hampshire. It's ruining the character of villages that are becoming just housing estates. There's no soul let alone facilities. More people more crime, more problems, less cohesion.

Social housing isn't part of the normal market though. You are entitled to stay in it for life, priority goes to need etc.
If the UK had enough social housing for everyone that needed a home when they moved out that's state control. Fine I guess but it's not what we are used to in the UK.

Titsywoo · 13/12/2024 22:02

I live in Surrey and they have already started building on green belt land around us. It is going to be a nightmare for traffic and things like doctors appointments, schools etc. I'm all for building more homes but this is a village and they are building so many houses on any tiny bit of green land.

suburburban · 13/12/2024 21:48

lljkk · 13/12/2024 21:03

If our Uni sector cannot survive without 300k foreign students + dependents, then it needs to shrink

There are so many alternatives how this could play out... but let's go for the obvious cost-saver one: Govt completely stops providing loans or subsidising tuition fees plus no foreign students: foreign students literally aren't allowed. Private loans for tuition etc. are still available.

RESULT: Oxbridge continues but dramatically reduced in depts because Uni applicants only want to enter the lucractive professions. Every other university closes. All our young people need to embrace non-degree trades and professions. UK trains almost no doctors because very few people can afford 5 years of tuition followed by 6 years of junior doctor salary. The only people who can get degrees are quite wealthy.

RESULT2: UK needs to import pretty much ALL of its highly qualified healthcare staff. And teachers. And engineers. And scientists... Net Immigration soars.

So I guess that's what people want when they say "Let's get rid of all the foreign students and make the UK university sector shrink."

ps: I'm not following how banning immigration would make UK young people who are unwell, suddenly be well and able to work.

I do think that some of the jobs used to be done without a degree

Also even if people here do qualify as a GP they are not necessarily taken on as the trusts have no money

Wellbeing24 · 13/12/2024 21:26

The existing housing stock held by social housing landlords across the UK needs to all made available - for example just one housing provider near the border of Wales has over 800 empty properties that they've still not got round to repairing and making fit for letting. This would suggest there is no need at all for yet more substandard new building developments. Social housing landlords must concentrate on their resources that already exist, they need to stop lining the pockets of private developers.

Jellycatspyjamas · 13/12/2024 21:17

(b) regulate mortgage lending do that people are limited to 3x one salary plus 1x second salary

That one measure would stop the housing market in its tracks, particularly in the south east of England. I doubt any of those home owners would vote for seeing their £1m plus homes drop to a price the average buyer could afford.

lljkk · 13/12/2024 21:03

If our Uni sector cannot survive without 300k foreign students + dependents, then it needs to shrink

There are so many alternatives how this could play out... but let's go for the obvious cost-saver one: Govt completely stops providing loans or subsidising tuition fees plus no foreign students: foreign students literally aren't allowed. Private loans for tuition etc. are still available.

RESULT: Oxbridge continues but dramatically reduced in depts because Uni applicants only want to enter the lucractive professions. Every other university closes. All our young people need to embrace non-degree trades and professions. UK trains almost no doctors because very few people can afford 5 years of tuition followed by 6 years of junior doctor salary. The only people who can get degrees are quite wealthy.

RESULT2: UK needs to import pretty much ALL of its highly qualified healthcare staff. And teachers. And engineers. And scientists... Net Immigration soars.

So I guess that's what people want when they say "Let's get rid of all the foreign students and make the UK university sector shrink."

ps: I'm not following how banning immigration would make UK young people who are unwell, suddenly be well and able to work.

bridgetreilly · 13/12/2024 20:23

If they really want to make property prices more realistic then
(a) have UK residence requirements for home ownership
(b) regulate mortgage lending do that people are limited to 3x one salary plus 1x second salary
(c) put much stricter regulations on second home ownership.

But they do also need to have an ongoing house building plan.

Thatsthebottomline · 13/12/2024 20:22

AndThereSheGoes · 13/12/2024 20:12

It's the gap between rent and buy. Yes social housing stock was sold off but the issue is after a short time it would then get resold as a private rental property. At rents that cripple people but also meaning are worth more as investments ( rather than homes)
There's no reason why people couldn't own their social housing but only be able to sell it back to the HA at market rates or other renters. ( In the same way it's sold to the tenant)

The issue isn't that social housing was sold off, the issue is that is has never been replaced. This means that landlords are able to maximise their profits as property is viewed as a business.

Can.you guess which political party has the most landlords as MPs ? It's not hard

suburburban · 13/12/2024 20:16

What about the environment

We are constantly told about net zero

AndThereSheGoes · 13/12/2024 20:12

It's the gap between rent and buy. Yes social housing stock was sold off but the issue is after a short time it would then get resold as a private rental property. At rents that cripple people but also meaning are worth more as investments ( rather than homes)
There's no reason why people couldn't own their social housing but only be able to sell it back to the HA at market rates or other renters. ( In the same way it's sold to the tenant)

Annabella92 · 13/12/2024 20:07

LivesinLondon2000 · 12/12/2024 16:54

But if circa 1 million people keep coming into the country every year, it will be impossible to keep building enough houses for them all no matter where they are. And I suspect most of these houses won’t have all the additional school places, gps and hospitals to go with them either

Yes exactly. Or jobs, or roads, or parking, or waste water facilities

Thatsthebottomline · 13/12/2024 20:04

FeegleFrenzy · 13/12/2024 17:19

I’d vote for this 👍

So how is this going to work? Who is for the "mass cull"?

Naturally it'll be short, fat and poor men first, because thats combination that nobody wants.

FeegleFrenzy · 13/12/2024 17:19

Jellycatspyjamas · 12/12/2024 18:31

I feel very strongly that the primary policy should be reducing the population

Maybe we could have a mass cull.

I’d vote for this 👍

Jellycatspyjamas · 13/12/2024 16:05

Or make it less easy to have big families on benefits? Or reduce immigration? Or reduce divorce rates so extra houses aren't needed?

Well given the steep rise in abortion rates since 2017, and the significant drop in UK birth rate the two child cap is doing something to limit family sizes.

I’d love to know how you’d reduce the divorce rate? Make people stay in unhappy or abusive marriages/relationships? That’s going to help women and children.

Which leaves immigration - as always. How then will you plug the gaps in academia, health and social care and unskilled labour. Folk here don’t want to do these jobs and we’re having children at slower rates than ever.

Thatsthebottomline · 13/12/2024 14:59

Looking back we did used to have social housing before that was sold off and never replaced. I think it’s possible to blame Labour for Thatchers Right to Buy policy which means we have so few council houses, or as they call them today, affordable housing. Over the years we simply haven’t replaced that housing. I know, its all Rayners fault, maybe she will apologise soon ?

Here in the North there are lots of skilled jobs that pay…….minimum wage. It simply doesn’t matter if you are skilled or not, it’s all about paying you as little as they can for as long as they can. School staff, “apprentice” teaching staff, childcare staff that fully qualified and have 30 years experience all get minimum wage. Asda is a high paying employer here. Northern Powerhouse anyone ? Laughable

Perhaps what we really need are the workhouses back ? Sell all of the council houses that they live in and invest that money into the South East, where the vast majority of investment goes nowadays. 14 years of Tories were a mere step away from the workhouse. Perhaps getting rid of the minimum wage to make poor people “work harder” ?

Yes, a utopia indeed. All of those houses in the North that have no well paying jobs and no investment can be used much better.

I expect it’s all Labours fault, Starmer saying there’s no such thing as society. Yes, I blame Labour

Brieandcamembert · 13/12/2024 14:17

Jellycatspyjamas · 12/12/2024 18:31

I feel very strongly that the primary policy should be reducing the population

Maybe we could have a mass cull.

Or make it less easy to have big families on benefits? Or reduce immigration? Or reduce divorce rates so extra houses aren't needed?

Brieandcamembert · 13/12/2024 14:15

suburburban · 13/12/2024 10:21

Probably because everyone is so stressed out having to both work and use childcare and pay for expensive housing that shouldn't be

Absolutely nail on the head. 2 homes per family because its so easy to separate now is a huge problem.

Brieandcamembert · 13/12/2024 14:12

We don't need more houses. It's abhorrent to be using up more and more countryside.