The Christmas Carol concert strop

Because he’s 11, not 3.

I’m fairly sure he knows other ways of communicating how he’s feeling and he should be encouraged to do so. Perhaps this whole situation wouldn’t be occurring if that had been the case.

Why is it such a crime for an 11 year old child to be stroppy?

It's the only way he knows how to communicate what he's feeling.

I really think this depends on what opportunities he’s been given to voice his desire to be a part of it or not. OP says he doesn’t like performing or singing. It’s possible he has voiced a desire not to do it before now, OP doesn’t say one way or the other, but assuming not..

Has everyone just assumed he would do it despite knowing he doesn’t like it and just hoped he’d not realise he had any say? He’s a young kid, thinking ahead like that and speaking up when he isn’t given good opportunities to do so is not a skill that it’s reasonable to expect him to have at this stage. Though talking to him about how that would be much better (and then listening to him if he tries in the future) is a good idea.

On the other hand, if they’ve been asked for a show of hands for who’s going to be there and he’s stuck his hand up, then insisting he sticks to that agreement is more reasonable - even though that’s a pretty poor way of getting buy in. And if there’s been something more explicit and less prone to pressuring then even more reasonable.

The stroppy behaviour was a result of not being listened to. Funnily enough people get pissed off when they feel forced and coerced.

For the sake of your children’s confidence and self esteem - please offer choice, discretion and support their decisions. Unless you want to produce a whole generation of people pleasers that have no critical thinking skills and are riddled with mental illness.

We had a similar carol service in a "local" church which all children in years 5 and 6 were expected to attend. DS didn't like singing and it clashed with his regular activity which he enjoyed.
He skipped the concert and then he got told off by the headteacher and I got a letter home. Headteacher got a strongly worded email back - apart from missing his activity it would have been quite difficult to get to the church they used plus it would have been standing room only in the porch for me and my younger DC's.

It’s too late now but I think it would have been legitimate to miss it, yes I get the commitment point but he’s also committed to his other activity and was committed to that first.

I think this depends.

If he had a speaking part this would make sense. But in every primary nativity performance my and my friends’ kids have been in, practice takes place during class time and the kids who aren’t going to be there are just stuck in the choir anyway. So saying they aren’t coming weeks ago wouldn’t have made any difference.

The school plays have been different - kids sign up to be involved and if they don’t sign up they aren’t included in the practices etc. In that case I’d agree that not going would be very poor form.

This is such a bugbear of mine! People with noisy babies and toddlers who won’t quieten them down or take them out. The odd bit of noise is of course expected and sometimes funny (the random toddler comments), but where a baby keeps crying or a toddler is rampaging around they are making it very difficult for the shy KS1 child who has been practising their one line for weeks and can’t be heard. We’ve all been there taking a potentially volatile toddler to an older child’s assembly / carol service but I used to sit on the end of the row so I could make a swift exit if needed and bribe with rice cakes to stay quiet!

The teacher at DC1 and 2’s drama class was great at this - she used to make an announcement before each show along the lines of “It is wonderful to see so many siblings here to support the children. The children have been working very hard on the show and some of them only have one line, so if little ones are finding it hard to stay quiet please do take them out so the children can concentrate on their performance”. I wish school would do the same before assemblies!

Then given it is years 3 to 6 I imagine the concert will go ahead - it is Winter with a whole lot of viruses about I imagine there is enough slack in the system to allow for children not to turn up. There is a minimum of say 80 kids in the primary school (and that is allowing 20 per class which is unlikely) - even a 60% turnout is fine. The whole thing should allow for that

anything outside of school hours should be optional

Thank goodness for some sense.

For everyone saying he shouldn't be forced to take part as he doesnt want to and wouldnt enjoy it...I agree that performances should not be compulsory, just as I think sports day shouldn't be compulsory...

However the time to take this stance is a couple of weeks ago when rehearsals started not 2 hours before the event that he is presumed to be attending due to not saying otherwise and people have put work and time into organising.

But he could have got out of it, at any point. The issue is that he wants to pull out at the last minute.
I have no problem with children making decisions, but they do need to recognise the consequences of leaving things late and letting people down. If he didn’t want to do it, fair enough, but that should have been made clear to the school/organiser earlier. It’s just poor form to pull out last minute in my opinion. Imagine if 10 children all do the same?

There are tonnes of things adults are expected to do, and there are even more things they get to decide not to do if they don’t want to, including everything someone else signs them up for without any commitment made by the adult being required to do it.

Work requirements are a part of your job that you a) applied for and b) get paid for. Many adults decide to forgo optional work things like Secret Santa and Christmas parties. Some adults decide not to do overtime because it’s optional and they’d rather do something else. If work ever sign you up for an optional choir performance you can duck out it, too.

Fair enough. We shall agree to disagree.
I just personally don’t think rewarding stroppy behaviour is the way to go on this occasion. But I’d certainly sit down and have a chat with him at some point about how to approach this type of situation if it ever happened again.

OP said “The school hasn't insisted he go but it's strongly recommended.” It is not obligatory ie. he doesn’t have to go.

I disagree, you are empowering him to make decisions, to listen to his own needs and self respect. Children are not generic sheep instructed to jump to command. They are not there to be performing seals.
Next time he will give more notice perhaps but should not be wheeled out for the sake of it.

I wouldn’t have made him no, My daughter actually missed parents evening (y9) last week for her riding lesson. Me and DH went on our own though

Quite shocked at the number of people who would let him pull out of the concert.

I know this is too late as concert well under way/over, but I agree I wouldn’t make my 11 yo participate. I’m a literal singing teacher but performing is my eldest child’s worst nightmare. He even refused his nursery nativity and carved out a tech role for himself in his infant nativity 😅

Not all. I had the most amazing childhood actually. But I do believe that something has gone wrong with parenting in recent years (I was also a teacher so I’ve seen this from that side too) and you read posts on this forum and you can see why.

If the school forced this upon him, then the decision not to participate could have been made earlier. Fair enough. But a last minute decision to not turn up is poor form and isn’t teaching this lad much at all.

Spot on RawBloomer

If he didn’t choose the school and he didn’t sign up to be in the choir or in some other way volunteer/commit to having his evening taken up with this, then I think he should be able to opt out of doing it for whatever reason he wants.

The consequences of him not going aren’t significant and the forcing him to go is just an exercise in power, not a justified requirement that does him (or anyone else) any good.

Sounds like the school made the commitment on his behalf. He didn't commit to it. He didn't actually have to go, according to op it's not compulsory. So why should he be forced to do something he never wanted to do, that is actually optional, that has no educational value and conflicts with something that does have value to him?

From your posts on this and another thread this evening, it sounds like you think that children should have a difficult, uncomfortable and unpleasant upbringing because you had to.

YABU!! It's a carol concert. He's 11, he's not got a speaking role, why on earth are you making him go when he doesn't want to and nobody else wants to particularly?? What an odd hill to die on.

The school haven't said he doesn't have to go. The op said they expect all the pupils to take part.