to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

Multiple ways of being may lead to the same care needs. I was recently at a pick up in Next. The woman next to me had her adult autistic son with her. She said 'it's busy, go and pace over there' and off he went and she continued on her phone. Meanwhile, I had to leave my higher functioning adult autistic son at home because his anxiety prevents him leaving the house so could continue on my phone. We both may have been doing online grocery shopping or grabbing down time.

We are both full time carers to autistic adults unable to cope with the NT world.

Maybe increased support will mean greater ability to cope and reduce the amount of mental illness but will do little to increase independence of those in severe need or reduce the need for care.

I think we need to rethink 'severity' and think about the level of care needed to support the needs of the disabled person. Whether that care is available outside the family via special schools or social services or whether support is provided by family carers.

I have to do PIP review every 3 years. I can't say my DS is still autistic (no miracle yet) and I'm still full time carer but have to provide recent evidence and fill in a pages long report. Then the DWP are too busy to respond. Last time they never responded but just continued paying PIP until the next review. I submitted in February but heard nothing back and don't expect to.

Posters also use ND as an excuse on many behaviour in school threads. It minimises the issues that those with ND conditions have.

It’s not always an “excuse” - dysregulated autistic children can present with poor impulse control, lashing out, inability to self-regulate. I’ve been the mum explaining my son’s actions in this way: because it’s true, DS’ classic autism is the one and only reason he is “badly behaved”. Too bad if you don’t believe me, and tbh it’s particularly disappointing if you are yourself ND and have (presumably) your own, albeit different, challenges.

I actually think the exact opposite of your last sentence. The monopolization of the debate (including on this thread) by those whose ND has a milder impact on their life, and who are articulate and “functioning”, completely obscures the wider picture of autism as a lifelong, serious disability, and many diagnosed people are in no position to advocate for better treatment, because they are non-verbal or too severely impacted to explain the consequences for them of (say) being dismissed as “devil spawn” (as one delightful parent called my then 5-yo DS) during childhood.

It seems middle-class folk who pay a few grand to be told why they’re “different” simultaneously don’t want to admit that similar “differences” cause challenging behaviour in children, and would rather blame the parents.

The diagnostic process does have flaws, it is based on parental report as much as professional observations. We are beginning to understand the ASD has genetic components, and hopefully one day we can establish a more concrete way of testing, so children can access support early, when we know that the intervention is most effective in supporting their development, access to appropriate education.

I know several families who have had to battle so hard for a diagnosis, through long waits and doubters and SEN panels etc. Of course, in person assessments would still be needed to establish the right support for that child.

When I got a diagnosis of arthritis by blood test, no one suggested that it might not be correct, I wasn't called lazy for getting tired more easily, it was just accepted, despite no one seeing anything. My boss didn't ask for any evidence to grant me to support I needed.
A colleague who needed minor adjustments due to her ASD was asked to provide lengthy reports and evidence, if there was a concrete test then hopefully there would be fewer struggles.

Well I am not a functioning member of society, some need support. Its a spectrum. I would have had much better mental heath if I had been supported as a child.

i can’t believe i have to argue that people with a disability should get a diagnosis, understanding and support in education and work. What has this country come to?

😂😂 No, but the majority of NT people have an instinctive ability to understand where other people are coming from, automatically making continual adjustments for each other.

I'll make an exception for level of alcohol or other substances ... the magic only happens if you're all under the same influence!

This whole post shows why people get "angry" with those that continually use ND as an excuse for their behaviour.

Posters also use ND as an excuse on many behaviour in school threads.

It minimises the issues that those with ND conditions have.

I think the world should and will evolve to reflect neurodiversity. The pace is what is uncertain and perhaps also precisely how it will evolve.

Astute observation, I think!

Sorry to hear about the work problem. It sounds like the "reasonable" part of reasonable adjustments isn't quite pulling its weight ... I hope HR can figure this out for you.

@Jifmicroliquid, I appreciate your post 🤗 I agree that a bit of awareness helps everybody!

🤣 is your rudeness also explained by a diagnosed illness?

I’m not being entitled, I have support needs. The definition of level two autism is needing significant support in social communication. Workplaces and services need to make reasonable adjustments by law. I don’t expect anyone to be my friend or mix with me if they don’t want to, nor should I.

If you are functioning without support at work good for you. A lot of people can’t work without support.

I‘m another one who is 40 and late diagnosed with ADHD. It has ruined my life, but silently. No one would ever have thought I had ADHD from the outside, as once I was about 8 or so I could mask super effectively. I have three children and the two boys display a lot of the behaviours I did, but they are bright and comply at school. They are known in the family as being a bit of a nightmare / emotional / high energy / stubborn etc etc but if I mention neurodiversity no one will entertain the idea because they can function. It pisses me off and I’m terrified they are feeling like I did at that age (scared all the time, mostly, and overwhelmed) but are just forced to get on with it.

What I would like to say to people who think neurodiversity is just bad behaviour is, are you sure?? Because if you’ve got it wrong, and don’t work to help the child understand themselves or get medicated, then you may be subjecting them to an adulthood like mine which is basically a shit show. Do you want your child:

• experiencing panic attacks for decades
• unable to hold down a job
• struggljng to be a good parent because they are so overwhelmed by their children
• not understanding why they find everyday tasks other people do such a struggle
• having zero self confidence and so putting up with unhealthy relationships

Just because many more people are being diagnosed now, it doesn’t cheapen the diagnosis. We just now have an understanding of it. 200 years ago barely anyone was diagnosed with cancer; do you think cancer is people shifting blame for their health?? It’s the same thing. My middle daughter has been brought up the same as her brothers with the same parenting techniques, the same level of discipline and boundaries etc etc. Her behaviour is excellent. My son’s behaviours are not.

Much easier (and cheaper) to mum-blame though

I'm there to enjoy interacting with people as NT people do

NT people all interact with each other in exactly the same way, regardless of introversion / extroversion, level of alcohol imbibed, general personality, background and culture, etc…? That’s a bit of a generalisation, isn’t it?

I don’t expect anyone to accommodate my autism, whether at home, with friends or at work.
A bit of awareness is great, but nobody should feel they have to change things to make life easier for me.

@Garlicwest I agree. And I suspect the ND people saying this have zero understanding of the many ways they exclude people with other disabilities all the time.

People need to accommodate the needs of this disabillity.

What, all the time??

At work, sure. If I'm at a social occasion, I'm there to enjoy interacting with people as NT people do. I don't "need" to accommodate those with social limitations: I might feel like doing so, I might not. I'm only there for my amusement, not theirs.

Same if you and I worked together - you'd have to make allowances for my crappy mobility. If I fancy joining you on your weekend hike, though, you don't "need" to make sure the route's flat and walk at half speed for my sake. If you want to, that's nice but if you don't, then I can't go.

Well, generally improving understanding of ND is great. At work I'm receiving emails from ND members of staff asking me to do things differently in my communications with them. But what it really amounts to is me doing quite a lot of their job for them. I've had 3 such requests in the last 6 months, it's becoming a big problem. If I can't resolve it I will ask to move teams. A lot of threads on mumsnet seem to mimic my work problems, so while the threads may be argumentative and shouty, there may be an underlying issue here....

I’ve seen enough posts from that person to know they severely dislike ND people and have misconstrued viewpoints about what ND people ‘are like’.

No one is saying autistic people can not take part in social activities. Most do.

Actually, I have it! I'm not ND as far as I know, but have some processing issues. It is disabling. Like OP, I learned not to beat myself up about it, though without any sort of diagnosis.

From your reaction, I'm guessing you and I wouldn't be happy if we ever tried to meet up for a drink 😂

Saying autistic people should not participate in activities requiring social skills is just vile. People need to accommodate the needs of this disabillity. It doesn’t harm others to accept that lack of eye contact and rather blunt and literal speech is nothing personal and can’t be helped, for example. I think this is where a diagnosis can help all levels of autism, as people can then realise these behaviours are not rudeness. That we are not ignoring hints we just don’t understand them and need a direct, literal request. If we seem to not care about feelings it is because we can’t read them and need to be told.
This is not the same as being abusive to others though. This is a social communication problem, and once there is understanding on both sides, does not need to involve anyone getting hurt or upset. A very different thing to using a diagnosis as an excuse. I wouldn’t dream of being deliberately rude to someone and try to avoid it. Can I read social cues though? The answer would be no, I need adjusted communication and people around me understanding I struggle with communication. I have level 2 autism.

not.

I meet some of the criteria but im not autistic.
I meet some of the criteria for bipolar but im not.
I meet some of the criteria for schizophrenia but im not.

meeting some of the criteria does not mean you have the condition.

So if a person meets some of the criteria do you consider them to be autistic or not?

But the physically disabled have rights to ensure they can access education, buildings, meetings, hospitals, work….

So do the neurologically disabled