to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

I get sick of it being used as an excuse. Any thread where the behaviour is selfish then youll see depression and ND used as an excuse. Sometimes people aren't ND they are just arseholes.

And even if the person is ND they still have to be accountable for their actions. I see posts all the time along the lines of I don't see why I/my child/anyone should have to mask their behaviour. It's such a selfish way of looking at things. I am accommodating and sympathetic, and I do understand some of the difficulties and issues around being ND. But everyone else in the world also has issues, wants and needs.

For an example someone will post about children screaming and running around in a coffee shop and it ruining the experience. The replies will be "maybe they are ND, just imagine how difficult it is for the parents." And yes that maybe true but if you've decided to treat yourself to a coffee, which is ridiculously expensive, you have every right not to want to deal with someone else's children.

Another post that regularly comes up which i have a personal experience of is garden use. We had a neighbour a few years ago whose child would constantly scream in the garden from 7am until 8pm. It made wfh during lockdown incredibly difficult as all of our rooms except the kitchen and bathroom faced towards their garden. We couldn't have windows open or sit in the garden due to the constant noise. Was the child ND? Quite possibly and I have sympathy for the parents. But at the same time I should be able to enjoy my own home and garden.

Ultimately there just needs to be balance. Everyone has to share spaces and work together.

I sat in an Exclusion panel at a local school last Monday.
There was a 15 year old boy there known to be a gang member and absolutely terrorises the school.
His parents refuse to admit he ever does anything wrong but when presented with clear evidence they claimed he was "hyper active" so couldn't help it.
Thats the sort of shit that causes people to dismiss ND

I am yet to see a post like that where the poster hasn’t considered and/or ruled out neurodiversity.

I often see the poster being asked if they considered neurodiversity, they say they have but there aren’t any other characteristics other than X and being told to look again because that one trait might mean they’ve overlooked other traits - almost berated into exploring a diagnosis that they themselves are clear doesn’t fit them.

I’m not against diagnosis where it might make a difference but labelling everyone with a quirk is unhelpful.

OP it's great that you are learning coping skills, self acceptance and self empathy, but please don't think you need to save the world from ND self loathing or selfharm.

"Captain Save the DAYS" often do more harm than good. You are not equipped to nurse other people through their realisation of ND.

Because of your diagnosis and your personal experiences, it is impossible for you to be impartial. Despite your best intentions, your subjective interpretations will be filtered through your hyper focus on ND.

Your boundaries and judgment are formed by your life experience, you will see ND everywhere, because you are so hyper focused on it yourself. You will lack perspective and balance when forming judgments on those around you.

Your kindly meant suggestions may be harmful to others.

I get enraged when they suggest shitty and abusive behaviour or someone simply being an arsehole is attributed to being ND and I will call people out on that.

It's very unfair when people reel it out like it's fact when it's someone's opinion.

I'm more likely to hurt myself more than anyone and it really truly upsets me that people think being ADHD is an excuse for things or that it's overdiagnosed or that you are simply abusive with these traits.

It has to stop. Posting things as facts when they are not is downright harmful.

I don't mean symptoms and traits that can be helped like in the workplace or social Etc.

Almost all of my female friends have recently self diagnosed with ADHD - I do think it’s a problem. I work with SEN kids and I worry the frivolous use of the label is leading to people taking it less seriously in CYP, which is a huge concern cos we’ve worked so fucking hard to get it taken seriously in the first place!

”Oh sorry I’m late, it’s my ADHD!” from friends being tossed around is not helpful in the slightest. It’s become the new “I’m a little bit OCD” 😬

I agree early diagnosis is important, but I think in recent years there has become a tendency to excuse and minimise negative behaviour that impact on others and berate people raising concerns about these negative behaviours. Rather than the focus of early diagnosis as an opportunity to build effective life skills and adaptations into "normal" society, which whilst it may be exhausting masking, life does require some degree of conformity and adherence to social norms and rules.

Your teacher was a bully.

You’ve misunderstood me - you mentioned MN posts where people say “child does X, Y, Z” and I said I’m yet to see a post of that nature where the OP hasn’t considered if not ruled out neurodiversity.

I agree with all of this.

There are schools where teachers are reporting that nearly half of the kids are either diagnosed ND or under assessment. That suggests that if the trend continues, it'll be more unusual to be NT than ND, and the labels should then in theory have to switch over (because it will be 'typical' to be neurodiverse).

I don't think the widened scope and therefore the massive increase in people seeking diagnosis and support helps those with the most severe symptoms and/or the highest level of impact on daily life. If the diagnosis rates are going to keep increasing then funding will surely have to be targeted.

(Yes, in an ideal world there'd be enough money for all but there isn't).

Agree with you on mental health, too. I was diagnosed with severe co-morbid MH conditions in my teens and have worked for decades whilst essentially hiding everything I was going through. I now know people who are so open about their mental health (which is great), but they don't work, and they claim that everyone who holds down a job either doesn't have any MH conditions or if they do, they're very mild. That really winds me up.

I'm not against it as such. My own children are autistic but I just feel like recently there's an excuse for everything. It's ok for people to be rude or whatever because they're 'neurodiverse' or even worse, 'neurospicy'. At uni, people use it as an excuse for not doing well, when they simply didn't put the work in. So for me; it's excuse fatigue!

It isn't the potential of the ND trait that is the negative at all.

It is when people read a thread from someone saying that their relative is displaying arsehole behaviour, and a poster pops along and says 'Have you counsidered they might be autistic?'. It implies that being an arsehole = autism.

There are many other posts on threads in a similar vein - someone says their MIL is being very unreasonable (could she have dementia?), their SIL or colleague is being very unpleasant (perhaps it's the menopause), their dc has turned into Kevin the Teenager (is it PDA?).

Hadn’t what, OP?

I think we disagree on this because you think a diagnosis is positive (and I’m glad it was for you!) and therefore helpful and I think a diagnosis that doesn’t come from a professional is rude, unnecessary and likely to feel like a criticism/personal attack on the recipient as neurodiversity is part of who a person is.

Again, just because you wanted a diagnosis, and found it a positive and helpful experience, doesn’t mean everyone else does.

There are plenty of resources available for you to research and look into it without strangers telling you there is something “wrong” with you!

That’s why somewhere in between probably would be best. An awareness of the ND condition, but also ways to help that person succeed in the world with their differences. Because, let’s face it, the world is not set up for people like us.

I stand by the fact that I believe schools are failing ND kids by not giving them the realities of what life will be like when they leave. They hold their hands through school and then chuck that kid out at 18 and expect them to be able to function in a world geared very much for NT people.

If someone came on asking about certain physical or other symptoms, people would definitely suggest potential causes.

POVs like yours are infuriating for people like me who were diagnosed too late and suffered for years hating ourselves and being called useless, lazy, etc because 'no labels, she just needs to get her act together' etc.

So what if it's not, then it's not, but if it might be, or the symptoms resonate and the poster is in distress, why not say.

I only sought diagnosis after reading a thread on here about adult female ADHD. My sister has autism, never formally diagnosed, and my mother has ADHD, which was diagnosed in her sixties - again, all because of unhelpful attitudes like yours. These are brilliant women who have had their potential and self esteem decimated due to others blaming and judging and not understanding. I would never risk someone going through life like that when I could say 'This is sounds like it could be a symptom of... have you considered..?'

Maybe my way of seeing it is wrong but if someone might be depressed or might not, surely it’s better to say it and be wrong than not say it and it get worse.

I guess for me ND isn’t a better or worse thing, it is what it is but suggesting neurodiversity when other things are in the mix means the other things don’t get looked at. There’s huge overlap in ADHD/ASD presentations and developmental trauma - which needs a different approach. All too often the ND gets hooked on and the impact of trauma disregarded - because who wants to think their child is deeply traumatised.

I also think assessment has limited benefit for an adult who understands their own behaviour and can identify strategies to support. Assessment changes nothing about how someone functions day to day, they still need to find ways to function day to day and still need to find a degree of self acceptance. Might diagnosis help with that, maybe, but given lengthy waits I can’t help think it’s better to get on with doing what you know works than waiting for a diagnosis that doesn’t change things.

I don't know - im in two minds, i have friends who see their children as XYZ - and when i say, oh when did you get the diagnoses are the school being helpful etc - they say they read something online and diagnosed that way. I also know of one child whose mum was convinced he had something and saw no less than FIVE dr's to confirm - all of them said he was normal and fine, she still says he has something to excuse his (frankly) mean and shitty behaviour - he will go right up to other kids and whack or hit them and his mum will say, oh hes diagnosed XYZ etc so he cant help himself - that child will get away with murder one day and his mum will say its because he has XYZ.