to not understand MNers against neurodiversity

Financial benefit…if you’re going to make such accusations please back it up with actual sources.

What- there are financial benefits to being ND?! Brilliant i didn't know that! How can i get in on that? What financial benefits specifically and how do i get them?

Nobody would self ID or diagnose as having autism if the diagnosis criteria hadn't been widened. Eg little Tommy's mum on mimsnet "my ds doesn't have many friends/ is rude etc" would never have got a reply of "do you think he may have autism?" When autism meant the classical non/ limitedly verbal, requiring 24 hour support etc diagnosis that it was previously.

I can talk and don't require 24hr care. I'm autistic. Diagnosed by a consultant psychiatrist with 20 years experience. If that's your understanding of what autism is, i think you're the one that's the problem.

The diagnostic criteria was made up by psychiatrists decades ago, mainly based on how males present with these conditions - do we accept any other areas of medicine standing still for decades? Do we diagnose people with cancer based on 40 year old criteria, or do we accept that as science advances, diagnostic criteria changes and we gain a better understanding?

I cannot think of one person that I think has no ND traits, so if EVERYONE looked for a diagnosis it would be ridiculous.
terms are used far to broadly and I suspect it’s linked to the financial benefit of having a diagnosis which is completely wrong.
so yes I am completely sick of everyone saying they are ND, it’s called life we are complex mammals

I meant to add this screenshot.

I look at this from a different view. I think diagnosing where people need help and support is a good thing.

I also think that there should be different diagnosis for different groups of individuals and the grouping of multiple diagnosis as nd has hurt those with classical/ profound/ severe / low functioning autism (pick the term) in particular. Parents and carers are being taken out of the conversation where they aren't nd themselves but the people in this group can't advocate for themselves and what works or is better for those who can advocate isn't necessarily what is better for those with profound autism.

Nobody would self ID or diagnose as having autism if the diagnosis criteria hadn't been widened. Eg little Tommy's mum on mimsnet "my ds doesn't have many friends/ is rude etc" would never have got a reply of "do you think he may have autism?" When autism meant the classical non/ limitedly verbal, requiring 24 hour support etc diagnosis that it was previously.

The more any nd is seen as a difference, something glamorous, an identity etc and not a disability the more harm is done to people of all needs who are severely impacted.

I have (medically diagnosed) ND children, I have (medically diagnosed) ND in older family members, I might be on the spectrum - what we do as parents is understand that the ND means that people react in different ways to different stimulus and teach them accordingly - what we don't do is allow it as an excuse for poor behaviour that upsets someone else.

I have seen too many instances of but s/he's ND, including being shouted by the individual, to excuse loud, violent, anti social behaviour.

The world needs to adjust to understand different needs however I am not going to let you hit me because you are autistic. (Example only but the words were used by the person concerned)

But there are definable effects, just because they aren’t immediately obvious to the outside world doesn’t mean they aren’t there. They are experienced by the person with autism who is masking rather than other people. Unfortunately masking to that extent often takes a massive toll on the autistic person.

@CrazyGoatLady
i think parents like the levels, has it come from America?

We'd stopped using them in our trust by the time I left CAMHS. Levels and functioning labels don't actually give you an accurate picture of someone's strengths and impairments and was often a misnomer because many of the difficulties an autistic child had were often due to co-occurring conditions (e.g. developmental delay LD, FAS, chromosomal abnormalities). Similarly, labeling an autistic child with a high IQ or who was doing fine academically "Level 1" or "high functioning" meant the support needs they did have weren't recognised.

We also recognised those labels caused divisiveness among parents and families because there'd be a bit of "well your kid's fine, she's only level 1, why should he get anything, what about mine that's level 2 and only gets this". Which I don't blame parents for, because the support was inadequate and not enough of it to go round/long waiting lists. But you did get the whole "but my kid's level 3, my life is harder, I should jump the queue over the families with level 1 kids". And frankly as a professional that's just not what you need to be dealing with, you want to focus on actually supporting people, not mediating squabbles about waiting lists and resource allocation.

What I cannot understand is that surely people who are actually ND should be the group most negatively affected by over diagnosis and pathologising of normal human experiences.
It trivialises how you experience the world and puts a huge strain on the services you require.

I know many people who have self diagnosed with various conditions and go around using them as excuses.

Just because none of your daughters friends dislike loud, crowded corridors does not mean that’s it not normal.
Both are normal.

And herein lies the problem. What was once a very wide spectrum of normal is becoming narrower and narrower to a point where nuance and difference in personality is not allowed for.

well there are levels which some people use

I have seen ‘meets some of the criteria for an autism diagnosis’ on professional reports. It isn’t as if there is a blood test for it.

well the spectrum has broadened,
previously it was non verbal autism being diagnosed

Also all this talk of too many people getting diagnosed these days - ND people aren't a new invention, you know. We've always existed, just never diagnosed. Looking back at my family with my diagnosis and everything I've learned over the last few years, pretty much every one is ND. Of course no chance of a diagnosis for my parents, aunts and uncles and grandparents so rather than being diagnosed and given support, they've all been affected by severe anxiety and depression, some alcoholics, hoarders, unable to work, emotionally immature, some have been abusive to their loved ones (either intentionally or not) because of a lack of any kind of help or understanding and decades of masking turned them bitter and twisted. Some of them function to the outside world but behind closed doors is a different story. I'm talking about 15- 20 specific close relatives here, not ND people in general.

Their undiagnosed ND has caused general trauma which has echoed throughout my life. It's THAT which early diagnosis, knowledge and support will help to prevent in the future. I don't want my dc to grow up like my undiagnosed relatives because that life is hell. We should be more concerned about ND people who are not getting diagnosed.

I do have a theory that it's those people who most often shout about too many diagnoses because they feel like everyone should suffer the way they had to. Which just goes to show those people could have done with earlier support because that's an awful mindset to have.

i dont think it always helps to jump in and diagnose
it doesnt solve the issue

I was diagnosed late too and although I have had to adapt, I have only very recently become a fully functioning member of society and that is due in part to the understanding and reasonable adjustments a diagnosis gives me.

Just because tough love and being pushed out of your comfort zone worked for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone. Autistic people are 9 times more likely to kill themselves. Mental health issues are rife. Only 26% of autistic people are in any sort of employment. What we have been doing up until now clearly wasn't working, what they are doing now may.

Then it's a problem with the underfunded and understaffed system, not with families who want to understand why their child is struggling. Also until they're diagnosed, how do you define how "severely autistic" someone is?

Thanks tories, for stripping away all mental health support and cutting support for ND diagnoses to the bone. My dc is on a waiting list that's expected to take at least 2 years for an ASD diagnosis. We haven't yet even been acknowledged on the ADHD waiting list which he was referred for 8 months ago.

It's almost like jealousy from some people. How dare i seek a diagnosis for my (very clearly ND child) because other people are worse off. Other people also being autistic doesn't mean my child doesn't need help too. Do you just resent children for needing help? Because it sounds like it.

Care to share what your “professionalism” is as you seem to crop up on a lot threads making these accusations.

It’s not what I see. For a start there is no help of support for struggling autism children. Schools are pretty much left to it with often very little expertise so I presume you’re a TA?

You telling struggling autistic children what they think and insisting on a one size fits all approach to autism alongside your refusal to listen to parents rings big alarm bells

Lots of kids and adults are though. By itself, it means nothing.

I think people who dont have ND dc dont understand that some literally wont listen or do as they are told (pda/odd etc).
When dd was a toddler there would be no, no no, etc as i got up to physically prevent her doing things. She never really stopped that.
So instead of thinking thats a child and they will do what they are told, imagine the child is more like a teen with an attitude and at school/nursery you are not there to physically stop them. This is possibly what you would imagine from a low iq/disabled etc child. But dc has actually very high iq.
Rewards/punishment just end up escalating the behaviour.
And this is how you conclude it is SEN because really the child is only harming themself, in that they lose friends, teachers hate them. But they cannot/will not stop behaving in a detrimental way. Despite explanations of what results in etc.
General children are cautious of misbehaviour with their parents due to consequences and at primary most are nervous of HT and being told off by teacher.

Not really. None of my daughter’s friends are bothered by the loud crowded corridors or the echoing in the PE hall. They don’t give it a second thought.

I’m yet to see it on MN. Could just be because I’m drawn to ND threads though.

I worry that people who are introverts, shy, quiet, socially anxious, or like reading/maths/birdwatching/drawing or just being alone get told they must be autistic.

I read one thread where a mother whose children were distressed by crowds of noisy children running and pushing in the school corridors had lots of responses suggesting her children were neurodivergent. Surely it's completely normal to be distressed by noisy, pushing, shoving crowds?!

So although the greater awareness of neurodiversity can only be a good thing, I don't like it when it's used to dismiss other concerns or experiences in that way.