Child Safeguarding Win, Puberty Blockers have been indefinitely banned across the ENTIRE of the UK (for off label use, precocious puberty use remains)

A lot of children presenting to mental health services have been through hugely unpleasant circumstances and need a great deal of support.

Dealing with that and also with gender dysphoria must be horrendous. I only had to deal with the dysphoria and it was bad enough on its own.

Please stop with the projection that every young person experiencing gender incongruence has some kind of issue that invalidates it. It is deeply insulting and an example of the same kinds of rhetoric used to dismiss and invalidate women's own experiences of heathcare needs.

Someone posted this on another thread and think it would be useful to add here.

Clip of Dame Hilary Cass clarifying the points of argument in the HOL yesterday:

https://x.com/SexMattersOrg/status/1868772967637041520?t=cExr8RJz9lB_35UyZDlFWQ&s=19

I personally think there's a difference between saying that happened (which you did), and trying to leverage a tragedy to guilt trip others to do what you want (which Butterfly continues to do).

The Samaritans guidance says: Don’t use emotive, romanticised language or images – a sensitive, factual approach is much safer. Coverage that reflects the wider issues around suicide, including that it is preventable, can help reduce the risk of suicidal behaviour

This is one of the reasons why - despite caring deeply about the environment - I didn't vote Green at the last election. They place identity politics first, and the planet last.

The fact is that medics have been experimenting on children for years, using these drugs designed to treat cancers etc 'off label". They've finally been exposed.
As this thread shows, there are still extreme transactivists determined that this should continue with mentally vulnerable children as the targets. It's only since #nodebate has failed that society is now able to highlight this abuse and we can speak more freely.

I'm not certain that there can be any ethical clinical trials on children using drugs that will impair their brain / emotional development, their fertility and their future physical health. How can any child below the age of consent give informed consent for this?

Yes, you'd think somewhere they'd have run a clinical trial, the accepted means of ensuring treatment is evidence-based, safe and effective, before now?

The government has announced that the clinical trials of puberty blockers to start in the spring are the “ first in the world”.

In that case, why have any children been given these drugs to treat ‘gender dysphoria’?

Imo ‘gender dysphoria’ is a symptom, not a diagnosis in itself.

Afaik every child that adopts a trans identity has a prior mental health or big life issue. These children have autism, have been bullied at school, suffer from family homophobia or have suffered loss or sexual abuse. A mind blowing 1 in 10 of Tavistock kids had a parent who was a convicted sex offender.

Yes, also a number of highly vulnerable looked after children.

When you have no arguments and despite repeated requests, can never provide any evidence / research/ citations to support your wild allegations, all you're left with is bullying and emotional manipulation.

YY. Not giving this any further oxygen.

Strange that Streeting's most recent announcement mentioned targeted mental health support resources for those who have had their future options removed, and Prof Appleby's own roadmap statement has mentioned the need to downplay the link in upcoming releases.

Afaik every child that adopts a trans identity has a prior mental health or big life issue. These children have autism, have been bullied at school, suffer from family homophobia or have suffered loss or sexual abuse. A mind blowing 1 in 10 of Tavistock kids had a parent who was a convicted sex offender.

It is commendable that Streeting recognises the need to address these issues rather than pump children full of hormones that will make them worse.

When you have no arguments and despite repeated requests, can never provide any evidence / research/ citations to support your wild allegations, all you're left with is bullying and emotional manipulation.

All showcased on this thread.

If that’s the case, why have they not been able to produce extensive (or any) follow up data that shows the cohort of happy, healthy people they treated successfully?

Given the alarming number of young girls who have taken puberty blockers and/or x sex hormones that are now disabled (bone crumbling a known and very common side effect) I’d say maybe it’s because there are none. Except maybe you, who still suffers from dysphoria.

Your argument amounts to saying 'people shouldn't transition because I'm going to do everything in my power to make their lives a living hell if they do'.

I'm shocked by this accusation. I haven't seen anyone saying this here, and certainly not ApriCat if that's who the poster means.

NothingcomestoNothing, I think I should apologise then for mentioning another child's post-transition tragedy. Shall I ask MN to remove those posts?

rejoicing over what a great fucking victory it was to shut off their hope for a future

Point at anyone who has done that.

Also read, Professor Appleby's conclusions, helpfully bolded for you on the thread.

This one, for instance:
Then there is the insensitivity of the “dead child” rhetoric. Suicide should not be a slogan or a means to winning an argument.

Ghoul.

Giving medication which doesn't work and causes measurable harm is abusing children. As is telling them that their struggles are because they are the wrong sex. As is lying to them that they can become the other sex.

You want children, many of whom are mentally ill or neuro-diverse, and all of whom who are too young to consent or to understand what they're signing up for, to be given drugs which lead to reduced IQ, osteopenia, anorgasmia and which cannot change them into the opposite sex.

It's not transphobic to want children to only be given medical treatment which works and doesn't harm them. Your attempts at manipulation don't work.

No. It doesn't. It's saying: look at evidence of benefit. Value all children equally. Try to figure out the actual, long term, realistic balance for them. And don't lie to them, or force others to do so.

Of course you are gutted by the loss of a child or young person you knew .

But why are you putting it down to lack of puberty blockers (if that is what you mean)? The child I mentioned was not helped by transition at all, and is equally valuable.

Don't abuse your children.
Don't abuse other people's children.
Don't abuse adults.
Show other people kindness and respect.
Act humanely toward them and allow them to live in dignity.

Life is hard for trans people for a lot of reasons, but one of the most prominent is transphobia.

Your argument amounts to saying 'people shouldn't transition because I'm going to do everything in my power to make their lives a living hell if they do'.

For god's sake please just stop, and help us make life just a little bit easier for other vulnerable people.

You try walking every fucking day past the place where a desperate kid you knew personally died cold and alone for completely preventable reasons only to see triumphant headlines and callous culture warriors on social media rejoicing over what a great fucking victory it was to shut off their hope for a future. What a vile thing to say. I'd like to be able to say I expected better of you but I've learned not to get my hopes up.

From Louis Appleby's report, his conclusions. I've bolded some bits I consider particularly relevant:

1. The data do not support the claim that there has been a large rise in suicide by young patients attending the gender services at the Tavistock since the High Court ruling in 2020 or after any other recent date. The figures for the 6 years covered in this review are 12 suicides in total, 2 per year on average, of whom half were under 18. With small numbers, single-figure differences can be expected and causal explanations are unreliable.

However, it is likely that there has been a rise over a longer period as young people at risk have increasingly presented with gender dysphoria and referrals to GIDShave risen.
There is a degree of uncertainty about the deaths recorded as “suicide not confirmed”. It is possible that more information on these cases would result in amended figures for individual years but the numbers remain too small to affect my conclusions.

1. The way that this issue has been discussed on social media has been insensitive, distressing and dangerous, and goes against guidance on safe reporting of suicide. One risk is that young people and their families will be terrified by predictions of suicide as inevitable without puberty blockers - some of the responses on social media show this.

Then there is the insensitivity of the “dead child” rhetoric. Suicide should not be a slogan or a means to winning an argument. To the families of 200 teenagers a year in England, it is devastating and all too real.

1. The claims that have been placed in the public domain do not meet basic standards for statistical evidence. To be reliable, evidence should be objective, unbiased and open to independent scrutiny. It should admit uncertainty.

1. Suicide by any young person is a profound tragedy: it should be seen as an indictment of our society. Young people with gender dysphoria may well have experienced ostracism and abuse, and their distress is likely to be heightened if services are perceived as rejecting. It is unfortunate that puberty-blocking drugs have come to be seen as the touchstone issue, the difference between acceptance and non-acceptance. We need to move away from this perception among patients, staff and the public.

1. In the end this is about a group of young people at risk of suicide and our collective responsibility to their safety. This means specialist health services with the capacity to respond to rising demand and appropriate skills in general services. It means a measured public discourse, making sure we do not stoke up prejudice or cause unnecessary alarm to the young people and their families.

In relation to suicide figures, we know there is a disproportionate number of children with autism identifying as trans, we also know that autism is a factor in suicide risk.

The autism is the risk factor not the access or not to puberty blockers.

Don’t use emotive, romanticised language or images – a sensitive, factual approach is much safer.

Children deserve evidence based healthcare.

What a shameful post. Of course vulnerable gender questioning children need targeted mental health support for their complex mental health needs. Why would any responsible person object to that?
The guidance on suicide has for decades recognised the impact of social contagion on suicide - not just for children but adults as well. Hence the insistence on responsible discussions rather than using grim shroud waving emotive language.

It's not a coincidence that two ideologically opposed governments have both taken the same view about the protection of children from transactivist demands. Cass has exposed the harm done to children and no amount of tedious, self absorbed emoting and whining is going to stop society from waking up and finally protecting the young.

Your lies are clear to anyone reading the thread, and your mawkish attempts to manipulate are just as clear.

And that's all you've got.