To think there are always missed red flags early on in eventual abusive relationships?

Love bombing usually happens and in your mind that hides the red flags.

I think you might be getting her confused with someone else, I don't think so!

Apologies if I have misinterpreted your post.

I understand that but I think she is claiming that anyone that suggests that there are always red flags is victim blaming somehow and therefore making victims of abuse feel bad. I don't agree with this!

Oh absolutely. But they work quick. I felt stuck in my relationship with exDH from weeks in. And you just get more and more trapped. I broke out after 10 years and it was actually surprisingly easy, I just walked out with nothing and started again.

I was an easy target though for various reasons and would probably have ended up in another abusive relationship had I not by fluke met DP.

@Bumpitybumper I disagree with your assessment of @I4gotmyname posts. She seems very clearly to be saying that reading posts on this thread that victim blame must be really difficult for women who have been in abusive relationships.

Also, a red flag isn’t necessarily a red flag.

Temper loss - definitely considered a red flag on mn, but lots of people lose their temper occasionally and are not abusive. Does that mean that anyone who has ever lost their temper should not be in a relationship.

Controlling - also a mn red flag. A lot of my friends are very controlling but whilst it can be annoying, it isn’t abusive in any of them.

It is easy to say with hindsight that they were red flags but not so easy to know that an imperfect human being(which all of us are) will turn into an abuser.

I have no idea what your taking about i have nothing about accepting there are red flags.

I'm almost thinking you have quoted the wrong person maybe. I don't know but if you did mean to quote me then you have read my post totally wrong . I dont know how you managed to get all that you have from my post

"Why is it awful reading? Do you think people that miss red flags should be shamed or blamed or are somehow lesser victims? I feel this is where a lot of the defensiveness is coming from and it's really unhelpful.

If there are always some red flags that are detectable by some people then this is hugely empowering for people. It means that there is a way to improve the odds of not getting drawn into an abusive relationship again by spotting the signs earlier."

The reverse is also true though - it makes it incredibly difficult for these who didn't spot the warning signs. It's not that others shame these victims (although some undoubtedly do) or that they are lessor victims - but that's very much likely how they feel themselves.

Dv is incredibly complex. And it's not helpful to these who are in the middle of it to talk about the red flags that were/or were not there before it became abusive.

I'm a dv survivor. And the boiling frog analogy was very accurate for me. And the abuse started long before it got physical. Slowly manipulating and gaslighting.

When others started to notice the physical abuse, they tried to help by saying things like "I'd never stay with a man who hit me" "there are always choices" never in direct conversation but in general terms. It made it so much harder for me, as I already felt worthless and their less than delicate attempts to help just added to it.

I don't think you're necessarily victim blaming but I think you have some internalised the idea that accepting that there are always red flags (no matter how subtle they may be) would mean that the abuse was somehow avoidable and therefore the victim is somehow to blame. Hence why you think this thread would be difficult reading for victims because you think they would assume that they should have identified the red flags.

My point is that we all have strengths and weaknesses and some us aren't as good as others at spotting red flags and understanding what they mean. There is no shame associated with that but it obviously would be a good thing to work on for self preservation. To pretend that abuse sometimes just comes out of absolutely nowhere is almost certainly wrong. It might well feel like that to the victim but I imagine a professional in the field would have been able to spot signs before the victim considers the abuse started. Very few of us would have the level of insight of a professional but it is proof that we can all work on this and improve our radar and response.

I agree with this. It can create an imbalance of power that wasn’t necessarily there at the start of the relationship.

I don't know how you got that from my post ... im not victim blaming at all . I'm saying the opposite. Ie that victim blaming should not happen.

My daughter is a surviveor of DV she is still effected by it. Even now she's having to move again due to her abuser finding where she lives she's at a level of life on danger .

I honestly don't get where you think I victim blamed

I sometimes think the term red flag is too blamey like it's something so damn obvious you were an idiot to miss it, sometimes it's not an easy spot.

I've had relationships where something seemed off but were symptoms of past issues. Red flag suggests they can't be fixed but that's not true, many can. Again the term red flag is harsh it puts the onus on both to spot and stop before it happens while not being qualified or knowledgeable enough to do so.

Look how many people talk about red flags they didn't spot when they were young, the expectation for people to know this stuff is too much, it needs experience, you can't teach much of this. Not everyone personally analyses everything they or their partner does and it doesn't make them bad people for not doing that.

I have and sometimes do use the term. However I've come to realise It's just another thing to berate others with and a smug way to refuse to support others.

@Donttellempike I am so sorry that happened to you and even though I don't know you, I am proud you achieved this!

You can't understand this without understanding the economics.

In many cases women put up with this because it's so financially difficult to leave. So they also lack role models to show them it's possible.

The news reports today say only the top 10% by income can now afford the UK average house price!

Why is it awful reading? Do you think people that miss red flags should be shamed or blamed or are somehow lesser victims? I feel this is where a lot of the defensiveness is coming from and it's really unhelpful.

If there are always some red flags that are detectable by some people then this is hugely empowering for people. It means that there is a way to improve the odds of not getting drawn into an abusive relationship again by spotting the signs earlier.

This is an awful thread. Victims, survivor's or even families effected by the lose of someone through DV must feel great readying this.

Dv is complex . Its not just about the physical stuff and the shouting. And seeing red flags or not seeing them . Its also Psychological and the mind is also very complex. If it was as simple as seeing red flags no one would be in DV situations.

I moved heaven and earth to get out of an abusive relationship, with 2 children. I had been with him 10 years before his real self showed up. When I had our son, who he was jealous of.

My son was suicidal and CAMHs told me I was at fault for not getting my ex out of the house.

I spent thousands getting an occupation order and forcing a house sale and him gone. No one helped me a jot Keep your ignorant nonsense to yourself.

I know it's not the point of your thread, but it's similar: I wondered the same about cheating husbands (in many cases, a kind of abusers). You read devastating stories here, about women who were absolutely sure to be sharing their lives and children with wonderful partners, who then become little less than cold sociopaths. It breaks my heart and fills me with dread, to read them, because I identify with having that kind of partnership with my DH...

Sometimes, you know things sound off but you believe their excuses because why would they lie?
This is often how women who've had good male role models in their life can still end up in abusive relationships. They don't realise the lies and excuses men make are lies and excuses and red flags.

Exactly this. The cycle of abuse: tale as old as time...

That was completely my experience

A red flag is a warning. But if it's buried in amongst a lot of positive behaviours I can see why it might be 'missed' as most abusers are masters at testing and then retreating or gaslighting or proceeding once they know what they can get away with. It's explained away or justified in the context of a wider relationship where they are broadly consistent in being a positive in that person's life (at that point). What I'm saying is it's not necessarily that the red flag is missed it's just the abuser hides it or justifies it or minimises it and that becomes the narrative that the abused partner lives by.

I just wanted to add that posts that say that 'I didn't notice and nobody did either' should potentially be treated with a pinch of salt. I have a friend who was extremely defensive of her abusive partner and absolutely wouldn't even begin to accept people's concerns so people kept them from her otherwise they were worried they would be cut out of her life. Now she has left him and is accepting that the relations was abusive, she is absolutely insistent that there were no red flags as nobody was able to plainly tell her what we were suspecting. It isn't just complex for those suffering abuse but also those trying to support someone that they suspect (but aren't completely sure) are being abused.

There were definitely red flags which I ignored. Since then, I only go on what is done rather than what is said ( deeds not words as the suffragettes said) and I hate the "be kind" narrative, yes but by being kind - thinking he was unwell - nearly lost me my son. I do believe many ignore the red flags as they trust others to be good and there are lots of not good, selfish people around