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AIBU to be having nightmares over friends visit?

584 replies

Allinarow48 · 10/12/2024 21:43

Having nightmares over old friends visit.

One of my closest friends is coming to visit over Christmas, after 10 years living abroad with only ocassional visits I should be excited but I’m actually terrified.

I was best mates with “Jane” since we were kids, we lived together during college and were absolutely inseparable. We really, really loved each other for years and went through a lot together. She is also good friends with my DH and my DD loves her.

During her time abroad she has met a lovely man, had a beautiful son (age 2) and started her own business.

She’s always suffered badly with depression and anxiety and her mental health has been fragile. Although in her new country she found some excellent therapists who really helped her. However lately she seems to be spiralling .

It started during Covid, I think she got very deep into social media. She’s always been very politically active and since she had her son the plight of children in Gaza has been a huge focus for her.

She’s always been very vehemently anti Israel since I’ve known her (We’re Irish and that’s very normal here).

She began to post pro-Hamas stuff just after the 7/11 attacks on Israel and immediately shared Hamas videos of the attacks ( the murder of Israelis and desecration of corpses etc.) With added commentary “This is beautiful to me.” “This is how freedom is gained.” Etc. A lot of Irish people are still quite pro-IRA and once again the support of Hamas isn’t that unusual but actually sharing the videos was extreme.

She then started posting videos of dead Gazan children pretty much continuously. Due to the time difference I can see most of her posting is done at night. I think she posts while feeding her son. Videos accompanied by “This is me.” “This is my son.” “I am Palestine.” kind of stuff. She said in one post that her ability to care for her son has been affected by the secondary trauma of what happening in Gaza.

Then recently she began to go from “Death to Israel” to “Death to the Jews.” She posted in Arabic and I translated it. It was an insta story and then disappeared. And since then she’s pretty much transitioned from anti-Israel to Anti-western and fairly drastic Antisemetic stuff “They didn’t gas enough of you” that kind of thing.

Then she went on to say recently that anyone who doesn’t agree with her should kill themselves or be killed and burn in hell etc…

Now here’s the thing: I’m Jewish, non practicing, I have relatives in Israel and lost a friend to the Hamas attacks. I’m disgusted by the Israeli government at the moment and have a lot of sympathy for the Gazan people but I don’t hate the Israeli people either. I am actually quite middle of the road politically.

Being Irish, Jewishness is is not something I have ever advertised and I’m actually not sure I’ve I ever told her. If she’s aware and doesn’t care or has forgotten and doesn’t mind me seeing her posts.

My mistake is that I never responded to any of her posts and never argued with her. She seems to think we’re totally cool. So she contacted me wanting to see me over Christmas for a day or 2.

I’ve been having nightmares about it. I’m scared I’ll say something or do something that upsets her and she freaks out, or something I do or don’t say triggers her mental heath problems and she hurts herself. I also feel bad that my dishonesty caused this situation. If I has said something last year she would probably have ditched me and never wanted to see me again.

I would like some advice on how to proceed.

OP posts:
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Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:25

pizzaHeart · 11/12/2024 00:12

I wouldn’t tell her about Jewish ancestry. I would meet her up somewhere on neutral territory, not at home and focus on asking her a lot of questions about her DC and Australia and how she met her DH etc and then I phase the friendship out. I know your feelings DH was going out recently with friends one of whom is really anti Israel, luckily they talked only about work stuff.

You could claim Covid but if it’s a small place she could bump into you somewhere.

And I absolutely believe that you didn’t tell her about being Jewish. People who don’t believe either are very naive or know nothing about real life, and definitely not Jewish.

Thank you! I was always told not to tell people by my parents and I understand why!

OP posts:
AnxiousRose · 11/12/2024 00:22

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:15

I don't care.

Lovely

ForkHandlesNotFourCandles · 11/12/2024 00:22

Labyrinthian · 11/12/2024 00:15

That said I've been at nightclubs in cork and Tipp where they have played songs where everyone is happy to sing about Paul McGrath and up the ra, in Limerick where they sing Sean South, and on the occasion where I thought there would be trouble up north where they played black and tans. However maybe the awareness is generational - I'm mid 40s.... Look at who the biggest act was at Electric Picnic - Wolfe Tones are now huge among teenagers and those in early 20s who have no real link or understanding of the troubles and were born after 1990. It's not popular again but in a different way. But that said this is still derailing your thread. Sorry. Ra is a bit like fight club and no one will talk about it only than to deny that it still exist

The Fields of Athenry is a sectarian song and sung by the Irish at football and Rugby matches.
Listen to them sing it at the end of Euro 2016 in France. ( tissues a ready )

mathanxiety · 11/12/2024 00:20

I'm Irish too, and I know the kind of bleeding heart hater you're describing.

Smug, self-righteous, no sense of self-awareness, and no boundaries whatsoever.

I'd tell her straight up that you are concerned about her mental state and express the hope that she'll get help for her problem. Also, that you won't be able to host her if she visits Ireland. You don't need to offer an explanation.

I have done this with a cousin who thought she could drop by and spend a day spewing verbal diarrhoea in my home (different bilge from your friend's but same bucket, to turn a phrase backwards). We're no longer in touch and that's fine with me.

Charlize43 · 11/12/2024 00:20

Tell her not to come because you are washing your hair... strand by strand... therefore it is going to take a very long time - like you won't be able to see her for years...

but seriously, she sounds awful!

Get rid. Nobody needs a jew hating bigot in their life.

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:17

lauraloulou1 · 10/12/2024 23:52

You seem incredibly empathetic OP and worrying about her mental state and what has caused this dissent into hate. I actually think Gaza has radicalised a lot of people in Ireland and young mothers especially - weirdly - i don't know why but I read something about breastfeeding making your more empathetic and therefore more impacted. I had a friend I was worried about and I steered her off the endless posting by trying to engage with her on all the things Arab countries and neighbouring countries were doing (ie feck all) and the leftie view that it's not up to "the West" to solve everything...engaging her intellectually helped move her away from dead baby horrors. Which are overwhelming. It sounds like she has PTSD? From social media war content? I don't think she will be the first..

It sounds like you want to keep the friendship so I would maybe risk being honest. As in: you sound quite racist and mad online instead of mad at what's happening. And I'm actually Jewish and the fact you don't know this maybe shows how prevalent anti Semitism is in Ireland and I'm living with that so please maybe get of Instagram and give me a call if you want to chat? Or find some to chat to? She sounds lonely.

Or cut her out. Like not your job to educate her and sad she has become radicalised but its a sad world and not much you can do about it but protect your own peace of mind. And your own wee family.

Either way I'd ignore the IRA trolling you getting here. British people have no idea about the troubles and it's never worth trying to explain. Go watch Derry girls troll posters! And maybe demand a better education system so colonialism, slavery and the great history of the British empire is taught better at schools! Or even vaguely mentioned!

Good luck xx

Thank you

OP posts:
Lavender14 · 11/12/2024 00:16

Allinarow48 · 10/12/2024 23:40

I should have known mentioning the fucking IRA would trigger everyone. I shouldn't have mentioned it. It's still true through.

From Northern Ireland here too and I think this is to some extent true. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the troubles and the trauma of the troubles for sure, but I also think there's still a sense that the IRA were fighting for freedom against political injustices and for many communities I work with its definitely just there under the surface if you scratch even a little. I don't think op has said anything massively out of turn in that respect. It maybe depends on the communities you're moving in.

Op back to your original post. I think it depends on how much you value this friendship. I think her posts are abhorrent to be honest but I also would like to think that we can still reach people who are down an extremist worm hole with a bit of humanity and I don't believe that leaving people in echo chambers of social media is a solution in the slightest. That being said - this also isn't your job to fix and you aren't required to do anything about this if you aren't comfortable.

If you do want to try to retain a friendship, then I'd be inclined to ring her and say that there is something you need to talk with her about before she comes to visit. And I'd tell her that you've been seeing all her posts and specifically the anti semitic ones and that you are Jewish and you find her sentiments deeply hurtful. That you've been sitting on this for a while because you were worried about how she'd react to this information but that it's at a point where she either needs to rethink what she's posting in order to respect you as her friend, or you just can't continue to have her in your life because while you don't politically align with the israeli gov actions (and I'd specifically name the posts where she's directly asking for Jewish people to be harmed or killed) these specific posts are offensive and hurtful to you and are taking things too far. I'd say that you understand she didn't know you were Jewish, but she does now and you'll be watching what she does going forwards to decide whether or not you can continue a friendship. That the ball is in her court but that you don't tolerate such extremist views in your relationships and that you are worried about what she's engaging with online.

It's so so easy for hate to thrive when there's no actual human being on the other end of it. I think op the difficult bit will be preparing yourself for her reaction not being what you'd hope for, if you do decide to tell her which is why I think it's important you only do this if you feel its the right option for you.

If its not, then to be honest I'd just message and be direct and say that you can no longer associate with someone who has such strongly anti semitic views so in order to protect yourself and your family and your mental wellbeing you won't be engaging with her going forwards and end the friendship.

Either way, I think it's important that you call her out if you can, if you feel safe to do so.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/12/2024 00:15

WishinAndHopin · 11/12/2024 00:08

Today I learned that the British Empire was established 100 years ago.

Well if you're talking about the English occupation of Ireland it was 5 times as long ago as your 200 years. My 100 years is about when they stopped the British martial law and routine extrajudicial killings (including FWIW my great uncle) in most of Ireland. And I'm English.

Labyrinthian · 11/12/2024 00:15

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:04

Ok so its just us then...Fuck.

That said I've been at nightclubs in cork and Tipp where they have played songs where everyone is happy to sing about Paul McGrath and up the ra, in Limerick where they sing Sean South, and on the occasion where I thought there would be trouble up north where they played black and tans. However maybe the awareness is generational - I'm mid 40s.... Look at who the biggest act was at Electric Picnic - Wolfe Tones are now huge among teenagers and those in early 20s who have no real link or understanding of the troubles and were born after 1990. It's not popular again but in a different way. But that said this is still derailing your thread. Sorry. Ra is a bit like fight club and no one will talk about it only than to deny that it still exist

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:15

AnxiousRose · 10/12/2024 23:47

Well you have upset a lot of Irish people and continue to antagonise.

Edited

I don't care.

OP posts:
Cantbelievewhativejustread · 11/12/2024 00:14

Allinarow48 · 10/12/2024 23:40

I should have known mentioning the fucking IRA would trigger everyone. I shouldn't have mentioned it. It's still true through.

It's not true. You've upset so many because you keep insisting your statements represent most of the Irish when that's not true. That might be the way things are in North Kerry, where you live, but North Kerry doesn't represent the rest of Ireland.

What you've described is simply untrue for most Irish/ other parts of the country. I'm in my 40s, grew up in rural Ireland and never heard or experienced anything you've described. I've also lived in a different part of the country to my home county and never heard the like there either. I've lived in both rural areas and cities. Your insistence that "most Irish" and " a lot of Irish" believe what you describe isn't true, that's why so many are offended.

YesThatsATurdOnTheRug · 11/12/2024 00:13

I'm so sorry you've had to read those comments and views OP, especially from someone you loved or even still love. I can't imagine how deeply that must hurt. I honestly would unfollow her at the very least on social media so you don't have to be subjected to that.

As to seeing her, I absolutely would not see her. Personally I wouldn't be in contact with her again either but that's entirely down to you. If you don't want the conversation (totally understandable) just make an excuse and then stop replying after that.

Pebbledashing · 11/12/2024 00:12

N Kerry is not Ireland - maybe that is the mental adjustment you need to make. I’m fully aware of how different N Kerry was during the troubles, black flags flying outside of houses etc, and no doubt relics of that attitude remain. But it is a small sparsely populated area and it is not representative of Ireland or of Irish people as a whole and I think your OP is damaging and you should edit it. In any case it is ironic that on a post complaining about racism you are yourself also generalising = stereotyping about a whole other nation. Yes this has all derailed but if you were more careful with your own words it could be avoided.

pizzaHeart · 11/12/2024 00:12

I wouldn’t tell her about Jewish ancestry. I would meet her up somewhere on neutral territory, not at home and focus on asking her a lot of questions about her DC and Australia and how she met her DH etc and then I phase the friendship out. I know your feelings DH was going out recently with friends one of whom is really anti Israel, luckily they talked only about work stuff.

You could claim Covid but if it’s a small place she could bump into you somewhere.

And I absolutely believe that you didn’t tell her about being Jewish. People who don’t believe either are very naive or know nothing about real life, and definitely not Jewish.

MounjaroForChristmas · 11/12/2024 00:11

There is a huge difference between understanding the plight of Palestinians/ being anti Israeli establishment, and being fully pro-Hamas, saying slaughter is "beautiful", and wishing death upon more Jews.

It is gobsmacking that anyone is suggesting to should "put politics aside" to see her. She is no longer your friend. She's a radicalised anti-Semite. She is glorifying in the murder of people like you and your family. That's the reality of it.

Mourn for the friendship that was, but that friendship doesn't exist anymore, and it is not your job to try and fix her regardless of whether she is in crisis or not. If she's this far gone on SM and the war is such a part of her daily thinking then it's inevitable she will raise it in person, or be scrolling/posting and showing you. Why on Earth would you willingly put yourself at risk of that? Make whatever excuses you feel you need to, but please cancel the visit.

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:09

Thatcastlethere · 10/12/2024 23:46

It IS a mental health issue.
I had a friend of 20 years who I lost recently who was the same. Absolutely obsessed. Posting pics of dead kids every day online and berating everyone. Thing is she was preaching to the converted but it's still not enough for her.. if you aren't shouting on a street corner or you dare to post anything online which isn't about gaza then you are the enemy.
She has been diagnosed with bpd. But she rejected that and has not engaged with help.
It came to a head because I have friends living in Israel (who are left wing and certainly do not agree with the government but we're born there etc) and she commented on how I have to cut ties with them now... I usually stay silent but in this instance I voiced my opinion that they were my friends and that was their home and I felt sorry for them...
Well the torrents of abuse I received were off the scale.. it was relentless. I hate Muslims apparently and I'm a disgusting racist and I should die and I'm a secret jew etc etc etc
I had to block her I'm the end and I no longer associate with her.
20 years of friendship gone.
She will complain of being suicidally depressed but yet treats people around her like this
Pushing everyone away from her if they don't completely back whatever world view she's fixated on.
I totally understand. It's so hard.
Some people are their own worst enemies.

Thank you so much for this. There is a lot they have in common. I have long suspected she has BPD although if she was ever formally diagnosed she never said anything. I think it really is a case of being her own worse enemy and I'm so sad that our story ends this way. I still don't hate her. I don't want harm to come to her, and I'm scared it will because she's hurt herself before, but I just can't with this stuff.

OP posts:
WishinAndHopin · 11/12/2024 00:08

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/12/2024 00:06

ITYM 100 years ago. I'll say nothing about more recent history.

Today I learned that the British Empire was established 100 years ago.

KenAdams · 11/12/2024 00:06

Seriously? You can't have someone with extreme views like that around you, especially given your religion. Her language is horrific. I'm not Jewish and I wouldn't even consider associating with her.

AnxiousRose · 11/12/2024 00:06

It is not the case that many Irish people support the IRA.
If you meant to say that many Irish people support a united Ireland you should ask to have your post amended.

ForkHandlesNotFourCandles · 11/12/2024 00:06

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:04

Ok so its just us then...Fuck.

No.
It really isn’t OP
but this subject has derailed your thread.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/12/2024 00:06

WishinAndHopin · 11/12/2024 00:00

I think British posters are fully aware of our own innocent civilians being murdered, thank you.

And no one ever shuts up about "British colonialism and slavery" - to the point of inciting hatred against living British people, for the actions of a small number of very rich individuals 200+ years ago before we even had the vote.

So focused is the education system on British and European colonialism that school children do not realise that brutal empires and slave trades existed outside of Europe - some with European countries as victims.

ITYM 100 years ago. I'll say nothing about more recent history.

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:04

Labyrinthian · 10/12/2024 23:31

If people don't know much about north Kerry, even if they are from Ireland, they won't understand the stronghold there in terms of what is long entrenched IRA support - this is an area that since the civil war had really active divides on pro and anti treaty and saw huge fighting since back in the 20s, over the years it has changed obviously with strong Sinn Fein support (especially with support for Ferris) but this is the area where Casement was landing arms for the uprising when he was caught for treason and it's never lost a lot of that background. It is not openly talked about, but it is not far beneath the surface, and I've often heard it after a pint or two, or a singsong or often just some older folk who don't bt feel the need to hide their views. I don't think I've met many people more supportive of the IRA than I have in north Kerry and I've lived all over. It's not the point of the thread but the original poster is giving quite a true representation of this region, and a lot of Irish people from other parts of the country will have no experience of that. North Kerry has a lot more going on than the lovely girls competition. I could name several families where I know there are members and they don't hide it.

Edited

Ok so its just us then...Fuck.

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 11/12/2024 00:04

This would be friendship ending for me I'm afraid. She sounds deranged, "they didn't gas enough of you". Sorry but that is sadistic. Tell her you're Jewish and you can't tolerate her hatred.

ForkHandlesNotFourCandles · 11/12/2024 00:03

Allinarow48 · 10/12/2024 23:51

Did they play the SAM song at your discos too? I do have a huge amount of sympathy for anyone from The North who lived through that hell. It was easy to lionise the provos in Kerry where were werent in any danger of a car blowing up.

Yes of course.
Although I was in Derry and too busy avoiding being shot at, and not by the IRA either

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:02

WishinAndHopin · 10/12/2024 23:27

In defense of OP, she clearly moves in very lefty middle class circles - probably too young to have been directly impacted by the Troubles - and there have been a lot of these types from Ireland vehemently supporting Palestine (some to the point of cheering Hamas as freedom fighters and being anti-Semites), and glorifying the IRA on social media. It might not be common in the general population, but it is in this specific sub group.

Because leftists live in echo chambers and forcefully shut down other opinions, they tend to erroneously assume their views are the majority rather than realising they are a minority. Remember the Twitter meltdowns about Trump's "unexpected" win in 2016? It's a similar lack of perspective.

I don't think this is deliberate anti-Irishness, just giving perspective for why she's not immediately disowning her murderous anti-Semite friend.

This is true! I was a lefty as a young person and I have moved more centrist over time ( Probably still left of centre.) but the same cannot be said for most of my friends including this one. She went further left for sure.

Am I in an echo chamber?

OP posts:
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