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AIBU to be having nightmares over friends visit?

584 replies

Allinarow48 · 10/12/2024 21:43

Having nightmares over old friends visit.

One of my closest friends is coming to visit over Christmas, after 10 years living abroad with only ocassional visits I should be excited but I’m actually terrified.

I was best mates with “Jane” since we were kids, we lived together during college and were absolutely inseparable. We really, really loved each other for years and went through a lot together. She is also good friends with my DH and my DD loves her.

During her time abroad she has met a lovely man, had a beautiful son (age 2) and started her own business.

She’s always suffered badly with depression and anxiety and her mental health has been fragile. Although in her new country she found some excellent therapists who really helped her. However lately she seems to be spiralling .

It started during Covid, I think she got very deep into social media. She’s always been very politically active and since she had her son the plight of children in Gaza has been a huge focus for her.

She’s always been very vehemently anti Israel since I’ve known her (We’re Irish and that’s very normal here).

She began to post pro-Hamas stuff just after the 7/11 attacks on Israel and immediately shared Hamas videos of the attacks ( the murder of Israelis and desecration of corpses etc.) With added commentary “This is beautiful to me.” “This is how freedom is gained.” Etc. A lot of Irish people are still quite pro-IRA and once again the support of Hamas isn’t that unusual but actually sharing the videos was extreme.

She then started posting videos of dead Gazan children pretty much continuously. Due to the time difference I can see most of her posting is done at night. I think she posts while feeding her son. Videos accompanied by “This is me.” “This is my son.” “I am Palestine.” kind of stuff. She said in one post that her ability to care for her son has been affected by the secondary trauma of what happening in Gaza.

Then recently she began to go from “Death to Israel” to “Death to the Jews.” She posted in Arabic and I translated it. It was an insta story and then disappeared. And since then she’s pretty much transitioned from anti-Israel to Anti-western and fairly drastic Antisemetic stuff “They didn’t gas enough of you” that kind of thing.

Then she went on to say recently that anyone who doesn’t agree with her should kill themselves or be killed and burn in hell etc…

Now here’s the thing: I’m Jewish, non practicing, I have relatives in Israel and lost a friend to the Hamas attacks. I’m disgusted by the Israeli government at the moment and have a lot of sympathy for the Gazan people but I don’t hate the Israeli people either. I am actually quite middle of the road politically.

Being Irish, Jewishness is is not something I have ever advertised and I’m actually not sure I’ve I ever told her. If she’s aware and doesn’t care or has forgotten and doesn’t mind me seeing her posts.

My mistake is that I never responded to any of her posts and never argued with her. She seems to think we’re totally cool. So she contacted me wanting to see me over Christmas for a day or 2.

I’ve been having nightmares about it. I’m scared I’ll say something or do something that upsets her and she freaks out, or something I do or don’t say triggers her mental heath problems and she hurts herself. I also feel bad that my dishonesty caused this situation. If I has said something last year she would probably have ditched me and never wanted to see me again.

I would like some advice on how to proceed.

OP posts:
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Osory · 11/12/2024 03:34

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Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 11/12/2024 03:11

She wishes you, your kids, and your family were all dead.

Yes, you cut her off. You shouldn't have to hide being Jewish from your friends.

Freeyourminds · 11/12/2024 03:11

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:50

Thank you. I'm so sorry you had that experience. Bless you for the work you're doing.

You said to another poster ‘l don’t care’
oh it’s just the ones you agree with then, with the same views.

Glitchymn1 · 11/12/2024 02:51

Would it be very difficult to avoid the subject completely? Does she talk about anything else?

ChessorBuckaroo · 11/12/2024 02:47

ForkHandlesNotFourCandles · 11/12/2024 00:22

The Fields of Athenry is a sectarian song and sung by the Irish at football and Rugby matches.
Listen to them sing it at the end of Euro 2016 in France. ( tissues a ready )

The Rugby fans in the south also had "Zombie" played at Ireland games, one of the most tone deaf, sanctimonious, ignorant songs ever written about the troubles in the north, written by, to all intents and purposes, a foreigner from Limerick named Dolores O'Riordan. Her telling us about our experience. The bleedin cheek. As a result there was backlash against that dirge, but not from the Rugger followers in the ignorant south who continued to sing it.

I thought OP was going to say she was from the north with her comment about staunch Republicans. The south is the diet coke version of Republicism. When Tyone kicked lumps out of the Kerry team in Gaelic, and routinely beat them, the Kerry folk referred to them as dirty northerners. The northern players have been hardened through experiences while the southerners have had it easy.

And to clarify OP's comment. It's Republicans who are anti Israel, or more specifically anti settler colonialism. That's why I have a disdain for the explicitly white setter entity that is america, a land inhabited by PEOPLE, not "savages" as that slave owning tyrant jefferson dehumanised in the 'declaration', whose numbers were decimated by the white settlers, as Hitler admiringly stated in 1928, they "gunned down the millions of Redskins to a few hundred thousand, and now keep the modest remnant under observation in a cage".

america and its ethnic cleansing westward (dubbed 'Manifest destiny') was a template for the Nazis and their conquest east. As Hitler stated: "in the East a similar process will repeat itself for a second time as in the conquest of America", and Nazi troops "had a duty to look upon natives as Redskin". More of this and the quote is in the article below.

Any form of settler colonialism, where one group, a "superior" group as jefferson and the rest of the elite white planter class believed, come in and take over another peoples land, a lesser people, a "savage", that is to be abhorred. We have heard the same kind of rhetoric from those in Netanyahu's cabinet about the Palestinians, of them being "animals", which is why they are treated the way they are in the apartheid state where they segregated from Israeli society. The Palestinians are living, to quote David Cameron in 2010, in a "prison camp".

In terms of your friend's comments OP, she is antisemitic because she refers to Jews, so shut her off. Many jews, such as Gideon Levy, are totally opposed to settler colonialism, ethnic cleansing, segregation, dehumanisation, wherever it is taking place. In fact jews have often led the cause of humanitarian efforts in many parts of the world.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/hitler-on-the-mississippi-banks/283127/

Hitler on the Mississippi Banks

Thoughts on Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/hitler-on-the-mississippi-banks/283127

user1492757084 · 11/12/2024 02:43

I would steer clear of meeting her too near Christmas, preferably afterwards
I would meet her in a park or somewhere nice for rhe children. Even a water park. Pack a lovely picnic and, with active children about, the visit should go smoothly.
Surely she will respect the children in her company and refrain from speaking about politics and anything politically violent etc.
Ask her to stop talking on a topic if she is making the kids nervous. You can always leave whenever you please.

My grandparents and great grandparents never read letters from their homeland, Ireland, in the company of children during the troubles. Consequentially there was no hatred, we were all ignorant and blissfully had friends of all creeds. Most of the Irish did this in Australia. We had numerous Catholic/Protestant marriages.

They were hard and sad times, that we now know, but there is no reason to transport hatred and political unrest.

coxesorangepippin · 11/12/2024 02:21

She wouldn't be welcome chez moi

Username2532 · 11/12/2024 02:17

ForkHandlesNotFourCandles · 11/12/2024 01:14

Talking of the reality as it is now and was is not breading hate.
If you’ve never lived it and don’t currently ‘see’ it it’s easy to dismiss it and call it hate.
Thankyou @Lavender14

It is breeding hate and condescending to say if someone hasn’t ‘lived it don’t see’ can’t comprehend, have you lived it? Or indeed op
@Lavender14 it’s quite clear you have the same views as @Allinarow48 who believes ‘most’ Irish people support the IRA, or as you said a lot, that is not a true representation, which is only what many have conveyed on this thread.

Passwordsaremynemesis · 11/12/2024 02:15

I’m NI born and bred and have lived all over, including rural Derry, Belfast and Cork. I’m in my 50s so grew up throughout the Troubles. I have met (and once been assaulted by) IRA sympathisers everywhere I’ve lived, oh and in Kilburn too. I’ve met a few UDA/UVF sympathisers too. I left Ireland ten years ago, I would like to think all that shit has died out, but I doubt it. As for the friend, I would cut her dead, and maybe tell her why if I had the energy for it.

krustykittens · 11/12/2024 01:51

OP, anyone that described an atrocity as beautiful would be dead to me. Whatever her reasons for spewing this shite, it’s not your problem. Cut her off, for your own piece of mind. She may have been a friend once but now scheduled brings nothing to your life but hatred. Let her go.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/12/2024 01:40

WishinAndHopin · 11/12/2024 00:25

I was talking about the expansion of the British Empire that is used as justification for hating the British/English.

If you want to play that game, I am also part English and Irish. Many of my Irish ancestors game here fleeing the famine.

However, no ethnic group deserves hatred or blame for governmental decisions and policies - especially those from the 1800's when people didn't have the vote and everyone is several generations dead.

Well obviously not. I don't want to blame Jews in general or all Israeli Jews for what is happening in the ME. Let alone all British for crimes in Ireland. But it doesn't change the fact that there are parallels between occupations and repression in different places.

Though actually it was 1900s I was talking about.

Daradarina · 11/12/2024 01:21

Are you talking about the situation in NI though@Lavender14?

Because OP is in ROI, and very far south, and thus what she said could be taken as representative of attitudes in ROI. However, her experience is not typical and she’s misrepresenting most people’s opinions here ime.

ForkHandlesNotFourCandles · 11/12/2024 01:14

Lavender14 · 11/12/2024 00:48

As an Irish person living in the North I'm curious why you've reported this given that it's certainly been my experience that there are a lot of Irish people who are still in support of the IRA? I work in plenty of disillusioned communities where young men especially are still expected to grow up to join prescribed organisations. I've worked with young people who's homes were being used to store weapons, they accepted it because it was what they were raised to think was their role in their community and it was absolutely glorified. Is it a majority? No of course not - lots of people strongly disagree with all parties contributing to the troubles- but then op didn't say it was a majority did she? Just that there are a lot which is true in certain areas. You've clearly no real idea of the sheer trauma and disenfranchisement many communities are still living under if you're having a knee jerk 'not all Irish' reaction to this post. There are lots of people who are in support of the core principles of what the ira stood for, and there's people out there who still now believe that violence is the only way to achieve a United Ireland. There are mediation talks happening all the time. A restaurant I was eating in was blown up a few years ago - that didn't just appear it was arranged by people who still believe there's a battle to be fought.

Talking of the reality as it is now and was is not breading hate.
If you’ve never lived it and don’t currently ‘see’ it it’s easy to dismiss it and call it hate.
Thankyou @Lavender14

madamovaries · 11/12/2024 01:13

If she were my friend, I would uninvite her and I'm not Jewish. She is anti-Semitic and a supporter of terrorism. I wouldn't let her in my home.

LondonLawyer · 11/12/2024 00:57

I wouldn't see her for a second. Someone who posts that not enough Jews were gassed, or "death to the Jews" is a murderous anti semite. Not someone who I would willing set eyes on for a moment.
This isn't about your "dishonesty" for a second.

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:50

Lavender14 · 11/12/2024 00:48

As an Irish person living in the North I'm curious why you've reported this given that it's certainly been my experience that there are a lot of Irish people who are still in support of the IRA? I work in plenty of disillusioned communities where young men especially are still expected to grow up to join prescribed organisations. I've worked with young people who's homes were being used to store weapons, they accepted it because it was what they were raised to think was their role in their community and it was absolutely glorified. Is it a majority? No of course not - lots of people strongly disagree with all parties contributing to the troubles- but then op didn't say it was a majority did she? Just that there are a lot which is true in certain areas. You've clearly no real idea of the sheer trauma and disenfranchisement many communities are still living under if you're having a knee jerk 'not all Irish' reaction to this post. There are lots of people who are in support of the core principles of what the ira stood for, and there's people out there who still now believe that violence is the only way to achieve a United Ireland. There are mediation talks happening all the time. A restaurant I was eating in was blown up a few years ago - that didn't just appear it was arranged by people who still believe there's a battle to be fought.

Thank you. I'm so sorry you had that experience. Bless you for the work you're doing.

OP posts:
Lavender14 · 11/12/2024 00:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

As an Irish person living in the North I'm curious why you've reported this given that it's certainly been my experience that there are a lot of Irish people who are still in support of the IRA? I work in plenty of disillusioned communities where young men especially are still expected to grow up to join prescribed organisations. I've worked with young people who's homes were being used to store weapons, they accepted it because it was what they were raised to think was their role in their community and it was absolutely glorified. Is it a majority? No of course not - lots of people strongly disagree with all parties contributing to the troubles- but then op didn't say it was a majority did she? Just that there are a lot which is true in certain areas. You've clearly no real idea of the sheer trauma and disenfranchisement many communities are still living under if you're having a knee jerk 'not all Irish' reaction to this post. There are lots of people who are in support of the core principles of what the ira stood for, and there's people out there who still now believe that violence is the only way to achieve a United Ireland. There are mediation talks happening all the time. A restaurant I was eating in was blown up a few years ago - that didn't just appear it was arranged by people who still believe there's a battle to be fought.

IdylicDay · 11/12/2024 00:46

I think you really need to write her a heartfelt text or email - even if it turns out to be a final one. Remind her that you're a Jew and you feel scared that she hates you so much for your ethnicity and religion when you've done nothing. That you don't feel comfortable visiting her. Pulling an excuse won't make her 'think' . You need to tell her straight; she might then start to think that there are innocent people she is spewing hate on. I would tell her you don't feel comfortable or up to having a visit at this time. You can soften the blow by saying you agree with her sentiments about what is happening in Palestine, but you are scared for the level of hatred she has, and you feel she hates you and you feel scared personally. Depending on her response, then you can decide what to do (continue visit, or block her).

Stephenra · 11/12/2024 00:43

There should be various boundaries between friends and family. My relatives and I never even knew who we voted for. I had great friendships with old schoolmates even though I knew they were on the opposite sides of the political spectrum because we knew when to leave it at the door.

I've also had the experience of someone I thought was a friend suddenly swamp me with anti-vax propaganda, QAnon conspiracy theories and far-right disinformation. She also had a history of depression. Well, so do I. What of it?

Huge red flag. Alarm bells. Doesn't matter how buddy-buddy you were in the past. Depression does not give someone an excuse to trample roughshod over and violate boundaries of civility and respect, and to flagrantly disregard your heritage. The behaviour certainly is symptomatic of something deeper, but it's not your responsibility to sort out and I would back out of this visit, and recalibrate the friendship.

It's an open question whether anything can be salvaged out of the situation. That's a story for another day. But for now I would drastically cut contact or even sever ties altogether. Visit? Out of the question.

VeganStar · 11/12/2024 00:42

I’m curious OP what do you think her attitude towards you would be if you told her that you were Jewish?
Given the extent of her extremism do you think that she would possibly end the friendship with you?
If she is as extreme as you say she probably wouldn’t want anything more to do with you and may even end the friendship thus saying you a job.
Honestly though OP this woman isn’t right. Don’t see her again. Don’t let her near your DD.
You don’t know the depths of her mental health problems and if she is radicalised, and it certainly seems that she could be, then have nothing to do with her.
Id be terrified as to what she could do.

Daradarina · 11/12/2024 00:37

From Northern Ireland here too and I think this is to some extent true. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the troubles and the trauma of the troubles for sure, but I also think there's still a sense that the IRA were fighting for freedom against political injustices and for many communities I work with its definitely just there under the surface if you scratch even a little. I don't think op has said anything massively out of turn in that respect. It maybe depends on the communities you're moving in.

@Lavender14 ROI generally is different to NI in this regard in that communities have been able to/allowed to move on. It usually takes generations to heal and that has happened for the most part in ROI where the last fighting in North Kerry or Cork (where I am) was the Civil War.
It may be different in border counties. NI is still raw so it’s a different situation.

Manxexile · 11/12/2024 00:35

Suzuki76 · 10/12/2024 22:08

I think I would message her and be honest. Say that as you're Jewish you're not going to be able to support her stance on this and that you won't be entering into any discussions about it. If she doesn't like that then you don't want to see her. Don't spend the next 2 weeks dreading this.

I think this ^ is the most honest and most correct approach.

AnxiousRose · 11/12/2024 00:33

From my experience growing up in rural Ireland in the 80s and 90s I saw no support for the IRA actions at that time. I saw fear and anger towards the IRA.

To say a lot of Irish people are still pro IRA is simply untrue.

Pebbledashing · 11/12/2024 00:32

Allinarow48 · 11/12/2024 00:15

I don't care.

Wow

WishinAndHopin · 11/12/2024 00:25

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/12/2024 00:15

Well if you're talking about the English occupation of Ireland it was 5 times as long ago as your 200 years. My 100 years is about when they stopped the British martial law and routine extrajudicial killings (including FWIW my great uncle) in most of Ireland. And I'm English.

I was talking about the expansion of the British Empire that is used as justification for hating the British/English.

If you want to play that game, I am also part English and Irish. Many of my Irish ancestors game here fleeing the famine.

However, no ethnic group deserves hatred or blame for governmental decisions and policies - especially those from the 1800's when people didn't have the vote and everyone is several generations dead.