Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sick of ignorant people re my religion

281 replies

Loisep · 09/12/2024 20:06

I’m married to a Dane. We met in London at university. We have a great relationship but the ignorance from his friends, family and acquaintances is almost too much to handle.

I am half Indian and was loosely raised Sikh. I think the UK does quite well in comparison to other countries re education on religion. Most Brits do not naturally assume I am Muslim.

That is not the case when I am in Denmark. God forbid I have a beer with new people. “Oh is that not halal?” Blah blah. I end up feeling guilty saying no I’m not Muslim all the time. Like I am distancing myself. I knew there would cultural differences but I never expected such ignorance. So many people think brown people = Arab (in Europe).

Dh wants to move back home and I would if it wasn’t for this extreme ignorance. I worry for future kids.

Am I the one with a chip on my shoulder? Should I just accept that people from other countries have been exposed to different cultural groups? Ie not had an Indian diaspora

OP posts:
MumChp · 09/12/2024 22:52

Loisep · 09/12/2024 22:51

It isn’t really strangers asking me if I am Muslim although it has happened. It’s more extended family members or friends of DH. Some have confused Sikhism as a sect of Islam or assumed it was the same thing.

Yes. They don't know better.

godmum56 · 09/12/2024 22:52

Supersimkin7 · 09/12/2024 22:00

Possibly cos they’re trying to buy her the right drink?

OP, Danes can and do say everything - the first time I met some in-laws, the dad swung us round the vibrator museum grumbling he wasn’t ‘at all turned on’.

They take equal rights as a given, which comes as a rude shock to anyone with minority status wanting to be made a fuss of. If that sounds snippy, it really isn’t - I’ve had ‘lively’ debates explaining the history of female oppression to stunned young men, for instance.

You won’t get racism, ever, IME, but you do get personal questions.

Then they say "what would you like to drink?"

Loisep · 09/12/2024 22:51

It isn’t really strangers asking me if I am Muslim although it has happened. It’s more extended family members or friends of DH. Some have confused Sikhism as a sect of Islam or assumed it was the same thing.

OP posts:
Zebedee999 · 09/12/2024 22:51

Ablondiebutagoody · 09/12/2024 20:28

I think that you hit the nail on the head with your last point. Denmark doesn't have the links with India that the UK does. Not their fault and at least their ancestors didn't slaughter loads of yours like the Brits did.

You do know that the Vikings (from Denmark) launched many massacres across Britain over hundreds of years, extortion (aka Danegeld), raping and so on. So yes ancient Danes did "slaughter loads of yours". BUT having mentioned this solely to correct your poor grasp of history, most of us see no need to raise these events that happened hundreds of years ago. Why you feel the need to raise it regarding what Brits may or may not have done hundreds of years ago is beyond me.

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:50

ErrolTheDragon · 09/12/2024 22:45

Danes will ask you anything. It's just the way to be Danish. You can say yes or no to answer a question and most Danes will friendly move on to the next question.

Maybe the OP should be as direct back and ask why the heck they'd assume she's a Muslim. (As far as I can see, the only reason is basically racism)

So why do Danes, often proudly secular need to learn about the religions of people who come to their country? Surely the people coming to Denmark should respect the secular nature of the country they are moving to.

Or maybe the Danes should be a bit truer to their secularism and not assume that a brown skinned person is of one particular religion, or any at all? The OP isn't remotely not respecting the secular nature of Denmark! She's not the one bringing up religion over a beer ffs.Confused

Edited

It was clearly just a question - it’s like being pissed off if someone asks if you’re a mother

Ladamesansmerci · 09/12/2024 22:50

Yes it's not unreasonable to expect people to not assume all brown people=Muslim. It's like other silly race based stereotypes, such as black people all being bad at swimming or whatever. Assuming all people of the same skin colour are homogenous is rooted in racism. It's like when people reference Africa as though it's one place and not an entire continent with lots of different cultures.

It's also not down to you to educate people in the age of easy internet access.

It ultimately depends how much it bugs you, OP.

MumChp · 09/12/2024 22:50

ErrolTheDragon · 09/12/2024 22:45

Danes will ask you anything. It's just the way to be Danish. You can say yes or no to answer a question and most Danes will friendly move on to the next question.

Maybe the OP should be as direct back and ask why the heck they'd assume she's a Muslim. (As far as I can see, the only reason is basically racism)

So why do Danes, often proudly secular need to learn about the religions of people who come to their country? Surely the people coming to Denmark should respect the secular nature of the country they are moving to.

Or maybe the Danes should be a bit truer to their secularism and not assume that a brown skinned person is of one particular religion, or any at all? The OP isn't remotely not respecting the secular nature of Denmark! She's not the one bringing up religion over a beer ffs.Confused

Edited

No. It wouldn't be racism.
A Dane would ask because he/she would like to know you better.
Living in Denmark and understand Danish communication isn't for everyone.

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:49

ToWhitToWhoo · 09/12/2024 22:42

Certainly their secularism should be respected; but that's not a reason for not knowing anything about other countries' religions. Knowing the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim doesn't mean you've got to adopt either religion!

To be fair, this is not specific to Denmark, and many British people are very confused about different religions, though I think schools do at least try to teach children the basics.

I once had a weird online conversation with an American who thought that the UK was ruled by Muslims and that then Prime Minister Rishi Sunak was a Muslim.

Why? Religion should be a private matter, a personal interest of the individual- I personally find different religions fascinating -but others find football fascinating. The sooner we make religion irrelevant in our interactions with each other the better.

nam3c4ang3 · 09/12/2024 22:47

Yikes sorry you’ve had this experience op - I’ve been travelling to Denmark every month for loads of years (could be more some months )- I work for a Danish company - im asian and I’ve never ever had anyone ask if im Muslim - I have had one lady ask if im Swedish tho 😂 I have dark hair, olive skin and brown eyes 😂😂

ErrolTheDragon · 09/12/2024 22:45

Danes will ask you anything. It's just the way to be Danish. You can say yes or no to answer a question and most Danes will friendly move on to the next question.

Maybe the OP should be as direct back and ask why the heck they'd assume she's a Muslim. (As far as I can see, the only reason is basically racism)

So why do Danes, often proudly secular need to learn about the religions of people who come to their country? Surely the people coming to Denmark should respect the secular nature of the country they are moving to.

Or maybe the Danes should be a bit truer to their secularism and not assume that a brown skinned person is of one particular religion, or any at all? The OP isn't remotely not respecting the secular nature of Denmark! She's not the one bringing up religion over a beer ffs.Confused

MumChp · 09/12/2024 22:44

miniaturepixieonacid · 09/12/2024 22:39

But surely what we know isn't limited to what we learn in school. I meant educated in a wider sense. I don't think I ever did Sikhism at school but I know about it through books, tv, films, the internet, general life, conversations. It's weird to me that one of the major world religions wouldn't even be recognisable to most of the population of an educated, Western, first world country.

An avarage Dane will no nothing about Sikhism. Sorry.

ToWhitToWhoo · 09/12/2024 22:42

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:30

So why do Danes, often proudly secular need to learn about the religions of people who come to their country? Surely the people coming to Denmark should respect the secular nature of the country they are moving to.

Certainly their secularism should be respected; but that's not a reason for not knowing anything about other countries' religions. Knowing the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim doesn't mean you've got to adopt either religion!

To be fair, this is not specific to Denmark, and many British people are very confused about different religions, though I think schools do at least try to teach children the basics.

I once had a weird online conversation with an American who thought that the UK was ruled by Muslims and that then Prime Minister Rishi Sunak was a Muslim.

miniaturepixieonacid · 09/12/2024 22:39

MumChp · 09/12/2024 22:28

I can assure you the avarage Dane knows nothing about Sikhism. Won't have paid any thoughts of Indians' religion (unless met one or two to tell them). No, they won't think Asian people are Muslims. Danes place Islam in the Middle East countries.

Religious studies im state schools are very basic in Denmark.

But surely what we know isn't limited to what we learn in school. I meant educated in a wider sense. I don't think I ever did Sikhism at school but I know about it through books, tv, films, the internet, general life, conversations. It's weird to me that one of the major world religions wouldn't even be recognisable to most of the population of an educated, Western, first world country.

MumChp · 09/12/2024 22:35

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:30

So why do Danes, often proudly secular need to learn about the religions of people who come to their country? Surely the people coming to Denmark should respect the secular nature of the country they are moving to.

Danes will ask you anything. It's just the way to be Danish. You can say yes or no to answer a question and most Danes will friendly move on to the next question.

ToWhitToWhoo · 09/12/2024 22:34

Ablondiebutagoody · 09/12/2024 20:28

I think that you hit the nail on the head with your last point. Denmark doesn't have the links with India that the UK does. Not their fault and at least their ancestors didn't slaughter loads of yours like the Brits did.

Not to the same extent, but Denmark certainly has its own warlike and colonialist past, and, for example, was rather heavily involved in the slave trade. Maybe not so much with regard to India in particular.

toucheee · 09/12/2024 22:33

JSMill · 09/12/2024 21:12

It's not unreasonable to expect people to understand that not all brown people are Muslim.
If I am going to be completely honest, when I lived in the Middle East and mixed in the expat community, the most openly racist people I encountered were Danish people. It shocked me as Denmark as a reputation as being a laid back country. The first time I heard a racist remark from a Danish person, I thought it was a one off but it happened several times over the years.

Why don’t racists stay in their own country instead of inflicting racist views on the countries they emigrate to? Ex pats my arse.

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:33

miniaturepixieonacid · 09/12/2024 22:21

I get that Denmark is a secular society but surely it can't really be true that the average Dane:
won't know what Sikhism is.
won't know that plenty of Indians are Christians
will naturally assume that an Asian person is a Muslim
(all things that have been said by pps to excuse the situation the OP is describing).

If all the above is true about a person, I wouldn't call them secular, I'd call them lacking in basic education and common sense.

But why should someone living in a secular country need to learn about random religions. I’m sure there’s lots of religions you don’t know about - are you uneducated or lacking in common sense.

Jk987 · 09/12/2024 22:32

ItsVeryComplicated · 09/12/2024 21:25

OP - the way I recognise Sikhs is by their turbans, but ladies don't wear those do they. Is there any clear physical sign of a Sikh woman?

But you don't assume all brown skinned women are Muslims? Or do you?

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:30

MumChp · 09/12/2024 21:57

I think a bit more general knowledge about religion would be great for the Danes.

Denmark is a small country. People from abroad do settle in Denmark in 2024 but it is a quite new thing for the Danes. A lot of people around 40 yo didn't go to school with any 'brown kids'.

So why do Danes, often proudly secular need to learn about the religions of people who come to their country? Surely the people coming to Denmark should respect the secular nature of the country they are moving to.

Supersimkin7 · 09/12/2024 22:29

Dear me, there’s some PO pooters out tonight.

No Dane assumed. Not one.

OP, if you do emigrate remember that new arrivals don’t get state benefits for ages - till they’ve got evidence they function socially, eg no criminal charges, consistent job, etc.. Everyone relies on a partner for a while.

MumChp · 09/12/2024 22:28

miniaturepixieonacid · 09/12/2024 22:21

I get that Denmark is a secular society but surely it can't really be true that the average Dane:
won't know what Sikhism is.
won't know that plenty of Indians are Christians
will naturally assume that an Asian person is a Muslim
(all things that have been said by pps to excuse the situation the OP is describing).

If all the above is true about a person, I wouldn't call them secular, I'd call them lacking in basic education and common sense.

I can assure you the avarage Dane knows nothing about Sikhism. Won't have paid any thoughts of Indians' religion (unless met one or two to tell them). No, they won't think Asian people are Muslims. Danes place Islam in the Middle East countries.

Religious studies im state schools are very basic in Denmark.

Hyperbowl · 09/12/2024 22:22

The people making the halal comments are rude but If people are asking you if you’re a Muslim or not then they’re not really doing anything wrong because they’re not making assumptions. You can just say no I’m Sikh and move on. Rinse and repeat as necessary. Either that or say you don’t like to discuss your religion if thats an issue for you. If people aren’t aware of religions then they’re not going to know unless you correct them. Is it annoying, yes but they’re only showing an interest in your life. They’re not actively trying to be rude necessarily. The guilt thing is odd though, why would you feel guilty? They’ve asked a question, they’re not going to be offended by you answering it.

I think if you’ve not researched Denmark enough to know that they’re not very culturally diverse bearing in mind that you’re considering moving there then you can’t really dig them out for being not very knowledgeable because you’re not either about them.

Skate76 · 09/12/2024 22:21

You have to feel comfortable where you live, regardless of why if you don't feel comfortable there your DH shouldn't pressure you to move 💐

miniaturepixieonacid · 09/12/2024 22:21

I get that Denmark is a secular society but surely it can't really be true that the average Dane:
won't know what Sikhism is.
won't know that plenty of Indians are Christians
will naturally assume that an Asian person is a Muslim
(all things that have been said by pps to excuse the situation the OP is describing).

If all the above is true about a person, I wouldn't call them secular, I'd call them lacking in basic education and common sense.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 09/12/2024 22:20

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 21:52

That’s not a bad thing imo. I think teaching of religion should be limited to helping interpret art that a person is likely to come across in the culture of their homeland and to understand the institutions of their country. Everything else is a personal interest of the individual

I find that a very odd comment. Religion is bound up with so many centuries of history, not just within Europe but also elsewhere. Learning about different religions is IMO part of a rounded general knowledge.

Swipe left for the next trending thread