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Sick of ignorant people re my religion

281 replies

Loisep · 09/12/2024 20:06

I’m married to a Dane. We met in London at university. We have a great relationship but the ignorance from his friends, family and acquaintances is almost too much to handle.

I am half Indian and was loosely raised Sikh. I think the UK does quite well in comparison to other countries re education on religion. Most Brits do not naturally assume I am Muslim.

That is not the case when I am in Denmark. God forbid I have a beer with new people. “Oh is that not halal?” Blah blah. I end up feeling guilty saying no I’m not Muslim all the time. Like I am distancing myself. I knew there would cultural differences but I never expected such ignorance. So many people think brown people = Arab (in Europe).

Dh wants to move back home and I would if it wasn’t for this extreme ignorance. I worry for future kids.

Am I the one with a chip on my shoulder? Should I just accept that people from other countries have been exposed to different cultural groups? Ie not had an Indian diaspora

OP posts:
MumChp · 10/12/2024 00:38

Lintu · 10/12/2024 00:29

It's not your job to educate ignorant people, either on this thread or in real life.

Although having said that, instead of saying "I'm not Muslim" could you preface it with something like "Do you know in the UK, it's generally considered rude to ask someone their religion?". Because it seems like not only is your Sikh heritage being erased but you're also being asked to ignore your British heritage.

Many Danes would think 'Oh well go home to UK if you don't like the Danish way of living'. They wouldn't stop being direct in their style of communication.

Lintu · 10/12/2024 00:29

It's not your job to educate ignorant people, either on this thread or in real life.

Although having said that, instead of saying "I'm not Muslim" could you preface it with something like "Do you know in the UK, it's generally considered rude to ask someone their religion?". Because it seems like not only is your Sikh heritage being erased but you're also being asked to ignore your British heritage.

Hellohelga · 10/12/2024 00:17

Loisep · 09/12/2024 22:51

It isn’t really strangers asking me if I am Muslim although it has happened. It’s more extended family members or friends of DH. Some have confused Sikhism as a sect of Islam or assumed it was the same thing.

There is a narrative in Denmark that Islam and Danish culture are incompatible. The burqa and niqab are banned. Practising Ramadan is viewed with suspicion. It may be just naive curiosity behind the questions. Or the colour of your skin might have raised some concerns about a Muslim joining the family/ social group. I wouldn’t like it either and I don’t think you are being unreasonable.

ToWhitToWhoo · 10/12/2024 00:11

Loisep · 09/12/2024 23:27

I’m so shocked that people genuinely think it is acceptable to assume a person’s religion based on nothing more than skin colour or physical appearance in 2024. I’m not expecting the average Dane to be an expert on Indian religions and to name the 10 gurus in chronological order. It would be nice if the very basic concept that brown people are not a monolith was understood.

If I was speaking to someone who was of East Asian descent I would ask “may I ask what your country of origin is? (if appropriate to do so). I wouldn’t go up to them and ask “are you [insert nationality]? That would be unbelievably ignorant and rude.

Im certainly no expert on world religions myself but I do my best not to be ignorant to people’s faces.

Edited

As regards your East Asian example: a Japanese friend of mine was studying in London in the 80s. An English woman approached her at a bus stop, and asked her, 'Are you from Hong Kong?' My friend replied, 'No, I am from Japan.' 'Oh, does that belong to Hong Kong?'

Moonlightstars · 09/12/2024 23:38

Loisep · 09/12/2024 21:35

I mean my brothers would probably self-identify as Sikh but neither of them have turbans and neither does my dad.

There are religious articles of clothing that Sikhs are supposed to wear (5 k’s) to mark them out as Sikh but many younger Sikhs will only wear one of the 5 (steel bracelet). You will find many Sikh women do not cut their hair.

I live in an area with lots of Sikh and Muslim families. I can usually work out who is who if people are still quite traditional. But it is all a massive generalisation based on brightness of clothes, amount of jewelry and amount of make up. This will sound bollocky and might be but also the Sikh friends/people I know have more almond shaped eyes and big eyelashes (men and women).

steff13 · 09/12/2024 23:32

godmum56 · 09/12/2024 21:37

I am not sure why they need to ask? I mean if the OP is having a beer then obvs they have decided to have a beer......

That's the thing, right? It's like when you're on a diet and you eat a dessert at a restaurant and somebody asks you if you're allowed to have that. People could just stay in their own lanes.

MumChp · 09/12/2024 23:29

Loisep · 09/12/2024 23:27

I’m so shocked that people genuinely think it is acceptable to assume a person’s religion based on nothing more than skin colour or physical appearance in 2024. I’m not expecting the average Dane to be an expert on Indian religions and to name the 10 gurus in chronological order. It would be nice if the very basic concept that brown people are not a monolith was understood.

If I was speaking to someone who was of East Asian descent I would ask “may I ask what your country of origin is? (if appropriate to do so). I wouldn’t go up to them and ask “are you [insert nationality]? That would be unbelievably ignorant and rude.

Im certainly no expert on world religions myself but I do my best not to be ignorant to people’s faces.

Edited

But you have faced reality is different in Denmark.

pizzaHeart · 09/12/2024 23:28

I think you are unreasonable OP. In a way you are doing the same as them - they don’t know about religions in India, you don’t know about Danish culture. Different countries have different curriculums, different structure of population and different ways of communicating. You’ve said that the way they ask you the question is rude, but maybe for them it’s not rude, maybe it’s their way.
You mentioned Japanese people, I didn’t realise they are Buddhists. I know about Judaism and Islam quite a lot but not about Buddhism or Sikhism. I can’t say I’m very religious and I don’t have any Sikh or Buddhist friends. I didn’t know that there are Catholics in India until I met someone who was exactly this.
People’s knowledge is very much affected by their environment and their experience.
I wouldn’t be so judgemental in your place.

Loisep · 09/12/2024 23:27

I’m so shocked that people genuinely think it is acceptable to assume a person’s religion based on nothing more than skin colour or physical appearance in 2024. I’m not expecting the average Dane to be an expert on Indian religions and to name the 10 gurus in chronological order. It would be nice if the very basic concept that brown people are not a monolith was understood.

If I was speaking to someone who was of East Asian descent I would ask “may I ask what your country of origin is? (if appropriate to do so). I wouldn’t go up to them and ask “are you [insert nationality]? That would be unbelievably ignorant and rude.

Im certainly no expert on world religions myself but I do my best not to be ignorant to people’s faces.

OP posts:
Loisep · 09/12/2024 23:20

FootballGrump · 09/12/2024 23:08

Sorry OP but Iranians are not Arabs. They speak Farsi, not Arabic.
If you can’t even nail your best friend’s culture or ethnicity then perhaps, again, you may want to refrain from judging others because they are curious about you.

I know not all Middle Easterners are Arabs (I actually did type that out in the post you quote but deleted it). The thing is if/when I meet someone from the ME I don’t automatically ask “are you Muslim? or “are you Arab?”. I wait for that info to be shared if it ever is.

I’m not going around articulating false assumptions

OP posts:
MumChp · 09/12/2024 23:17

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:56

So it’s purely a question, and they are trying to get information. I assume you calmly explain the differences and satisfy their question for knowledge and move on.

This approach would be very Scandinavian. And work well.

Pablova · 09/12/2024 23:16

MumChp · 09/12/2024 22:20

In Denmark it doesn't work out that way.
Danes ask you because they want to know not because they want to offend you. Communication is very different and much more direct than in Britain.

The OP wasn’t asked what religion she was, she was asked was the beer she was having not halal, ergo assuming she was Muslim.

NameChangeForReason · 09/12/2024 23:11

ToWhitToWhoo · 09/12/2024 23:08

Isn't there a significant Christian community in India?

Alot are Catholic thanks to the Portuguese Colonials.

FootballGrump · 09/12/2024 23:08

Loisep · 09/12/2024 23:03

I’m sharing what others believe. My best friend is of Iranian descent and is Jewish. I am fully aware Arabs are not all Muslim.

Sorry OP but Iranians are not Arabs. They speak Farsi, not Arabic.
If you can’t even nail your best friend’s culture or ethnicity then perhaps, again, you may want to refrain from judging others because they are curious about you.

ToWhitToWhoo · 09/12/2024 23:08

Zebedee999 · 09/12/2024 22:59

I think you are being unreasonable. I've been to India many times and have zero expectation that they would (in the main) have much of an idea about the different Western religions or branches of Christianity etc. Why should they unless they have actively looked in to it.

Isn't there a significant Christian community in India?

samarrange · 09/12/2024 23:08

I think you are going to have to accept that for a lot of Danish people, every brown person they have ever met has been a Muslim. So they will naturally equate the two. People make a lot of simplifying assumptions to get through the day. It would be nice if they didn't, but that's just how it is, and you're not going to be able to fix it, at least for the people whom you only encounter when out in public.

If the worst that happens is that they think you aren't allowed to drink alcohol and make a jokey comment about that, and you can say something like "Actually, like 90% of Indians, I'm not Muslim" (or whatever --- only you can choose how you identify, of course), and they go "Oh" and look a bit sheepish, then perhaps you can live with that. (You might also find that you get Danish Muslims commenting if they see you with a beer or a bacon sandwich...) Obviously if they don't believe that you're not a Muslim and start with the Islamophobic comments then you would want to walk away, but I'm not sure how likely that is on any given day.

I'm white and look very northern European, and I have lived for a time in a country where, although everyone else was notionally white, I stuck out like a sore thumb. So people would assume I didn't speak the local language. Sometimes I would correct them, sometimes not. It was occasionally tedious, but never worse than that.

I think that if you did move to Denmark you would acquire all kinds of stories about the differences between the two countries, which would naturally fall into a "better" or "worse" column. Maybe "So many people assume I'm a Muslim" would become just one of the items under "worse", to be compensated by the things that are better about Denmark than the UK. 🙏

MumblesParty · 09/12/2024 23:04

Ablondiebutagoody · 09/12/2024 21:27

Calm down. The Danes didn't colonise India so don't have those historic links was my point, not a general discussion on colonialism.

Edited

@Ablondiebutagoody so is it my colonial links that make me aware that not all dark skinned people Muslims? Because I could have sworn it was just general knowledge, education, awareness, and lack of prejudice. Astounding that British people are being blamed for being too aware and considerate.
Damned if we do, damned if we don't!

Loisep · 09/12/2024 23:03

FootballGrump · 09/12/2024 22:55

@OP I think you’re being unreasonable for equating Arab with Muslim.
Perhaps before you complain about all the ignorant people surrounding you, you could educate yourself.
Plenty of Arab Christians, Druze, Jews and other minorities in the Middle East.

I’m sharing what others believe. My best friend is of Iranian descent and is Jewish. I am fully aware Arabs are not all Muslim.

OP posts:
MrsCarson · 09/12/2024 23:02

Surely if it's his Danish friends and family that are assuming you are Muslim, then once he tells them all to stop with the comments, that you aren't Muslim, then it will stop.
If you aren't a practising Sikh then why does it come up at all.
I don't practise any religion, when we lived abroad via was asked if I attend church/Do I have a Church, etc etc I just said No. None of Dh family and friends bothered me about it again.
Strangers never brought up religion with me at all. Do strangers in Denmark make comments to you?

ErrolTheDragon · 09/12/2024 23:01

It was clearly just a question - it’s like being pissed off if someone asks if you’re a mother

I don't think so. God forbid I have a beer with new people. “Oh is that not halal?” - that example is the person making an assumption based on nothing other than her colour, it seems. Why assume she has any religion let alone a specific one?

mitogoshigg · 09/12/2024 23:00

Tranquebar
Between 1620 - 1845 Tranquebar on the Coromandel coast in Southern India was a Danish trading station and colony.

Yes the Danes were in India

Doesn't help op but we pesky Europeans were all pretty naughty!

Zebedee999 · 09/12/2024 22:59

Loisep · 09/12/2024 22:51

It isn’t really strangers asking me if I am Muslim although it has happened. It’s more extended family members or friends of DH. Some have confused Sikhism as a sect of Islam or assumed it was the same thing.

I think you are being unreasonable. I've been to India many times and have zero expectation that they would (in the main) have much of an idea about the different Western religions or branches of Christianity etc. Why should they unless they have actively looked in to it.

Feelingathomenow · 09/12/2024 22:56

Loisep · 09/12/2024 22:51

It isn’t really strangers asking me if I am Muslim although it has happened. It’s more extended family members or friends of DH. Some have confused Sikhism as a sect of Islam or assumed it was the same thing.

So it’s purely a question, and they are trying to get information. I assume you calmly explain the differences and satisfy their question for knowledge and move on.

mitogoshigg · 09/12/2024 22:56

@Ablondiebutagoody

They may not have colonised India but they did elsewhere.

en.natmus.dk/historical-knowledge/historical-themes/danish-colonies/

Most European nations are guilty of colonisation, at least those with coastlines

FootballGrump · 09/12/2024 22:55

@OP I think you’re being unreasonable for equating Arab with Muslim.
Perhaps before you complain about all the ignorant people surrounding you, you could educate yourself.
Plenty of Arab Christians, Druze, Jews and other minorities in the Middle East.

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