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Sick of ignorant people re my religion

281 replies

Loisep · 09/12/2024 20:06

I’m married to a Dane. We met in London at university. We have a great relationship but the ignorance from his friends, family and acquaintances is almost too much to handle.

I am half Indian and was loosely raised Sikh. I think the UK does quite well in comparison to other countries re education on religion. Most Brits do not naturally assume I am Muslim.

That is not the case when I am in Denmark. God forbid I have a beer with new people. “Oh is that not halal?” Blah blah. I end up feeling guilty saying no I’m not Muslim all the time. Like I am distancing myself. I knew there would cultural differences but I never expected such ignorance. So many people think brown people = Arab (in Europe).

Dh wants to move back home and I would if it wasn’t for this extreme ignorance. I worry for future kids.

Am I the one with a chip on my shoulder? Should I just accept that people from other countries have been exposed to different cultural groups? Ie not had an Indian diaspora

OP posts:
JHound · 10/12/2024 17:34

I think you just need to accept different countries don’t teach RE to the same extent the UK does. And even then in the UK it really depends on what area you are from. I remember living in France and an acquaintance was shocked at my knowledge of Judaism. He was Jewish but in France there was no RE so he was flabbergasted I knew what Sukkot was.

I think you just need to accept there are different levels of knowledge of certain things and if somebody mentions something to you just say “That’s Islam, not Sikhism.”

Edit:

DOH!!!!

I misread your post. It’s about skin colour. Yes they are stupid and when confronted by stupid people I painstakingly asking them questions to get them to realise their stupidity. So say to them “halal? Why would I be halal?” Muslim? Why would you think I was Muslim?” I “look” like a Muslim?” What does a Muslim “look” like?”

They generally start to understand they are being very stupid with their questions.

VapeVamp12 · 10/12/2024 17:03

If it is racism, then you should expect that

With attitudes like that we're doomed.

Knulp · 10/12/2024 16:37

Davros · 10/12/2024 10:43

@Knulp I am Sikh and for my sins, the first assumption I would make seeing a white skinned person in India would be that they are Christian!
I think you should be more careful. I am regularly described as "Christian" by Jewish friends and family and I am NOT. When I explain to them that, I might not be Jewish but that doesn't mean I am Christian, they never remember and just say it again. I don't offend easily but I find this infuriating. They ought to know that I was brought up by parents who met in the Communist party, who were committed atheists, ditto one set of grandparents. It's quite an important part of my background and, I think, quite interesting! Yet it just gets said again casually. Grrrrr!

I am aware this thinking is incorrect, its why I used the phrase 'for my sins', and an assumption is just a thought, not a statement.

Let me give you an example

Although born in the UK, I have spent time in India, which in the early stages was a country very alien to me in many ways. I once remember on a very hot Christmas day seeing a white couple with English accents, and without thinking broke into a broad grin and wished them Merry Christmas.

would you find this offensive?

DowntonFlabbie · 10/12/2024 15:10

OP isn't talking about being asked about her religion. She's talking about people incorrectly assuming her religion from her skin colour.

That's racist. And ignorant.

Anyone who thinks its not an issue is also racist and ignorant 🤷‍♀️

TorroFerney · 10/12/2024 15:06

Feelingathomenow · 10/12/2024 13:41

Are 99.9% of things we ask others important?

You don’t just ask random people questions though do you because they look different than you. When does religion come up for most of us. Never I’d suggest. I don’t know the religion of any of my colleagues apart from one who has told me.

dynamiccactus · 10/12/2024 14:14

It's also interesting that someone said that Denmark isn't a religious country, in which case you'd wonder why they'd raise it at all.

Compared with the US, or what was West Germany, where religion is important and for example in the Western parts of Germany you were always asked if you were Protestant or Catholic. As someone who wasn't christened, I never quite knew what to answer, although I did go to a church primary (just a normal village school).

Generally it's easier to stay away from religion as a topic!

dynamiccactus · 10/12/2024 14:11

Ablondiebutagoody · 09/12/2024 21:27

Calm down. The Danes didn't colonise India so don't have those historic links was my point, not a general discussion on colonialism.

Edited

Well it was due to your comment about slaughter.

Anyway, nobody alive now was involved in that (or if they are, they are very old and number in the tens) so it's completely irrelevant anyway.

Lets look forward instead of back: the Danes are very well educated and are perfectly capable of understanding that not everyone with brown skin is Muslim. You don't need to have colonised India to understand that.

dynamiccactus · 10/12/2024 14:09

Two guests at my wedding were Sikh and the husband wore a turban, as is the norm.

When looking at my wedding photos a friend overseas (not Danish, but continental European) asked if they were wearing fancy dress!

Agapornis · 10/12/2024 14:06

Match the question right back to them. E.g. "No, are you?" (it will confuse them and amuse you) Or "No, are you Christian?". They're white so they must be going to church three times on a Sunday, right?!

I'm from round there. It's partly lack of knowledge, partly cultural. The nuance in politeness of "what religion are you?" vs "are you Muslim?" doesn't translate well between British and Northern European cultures. While my English was technically great when I moved to the UK, I've had to learn a LOT about nuance.

BobbyBiscuits · 10/12/2024 13:48

It sounds really annoying. Even if someone has a skin colour consistent with the Indian subcontinent, it doesn't mean you should assume they can't or shouldn't drink? Especially when they're sat there with a beer. My best mate is Turkish and raised Muslim, but drinks every day.
It must be very tiresome.
I'm glad you've not encountered it in the UK. I'd be pretty shocked if it happened in London or other places with lots of racial and religious diversity in the UK.
It's like, even if you were raised Muslim you can drink without someone questioning it? Let alone when that's not even your faith.
I wonder how many men encounter this? It could be partly sexism.

ElatedShark · 10/12/2024 13:43

But none of what you've posted sounds like they are beingbracist or hostile though?
You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder tbh.

If it is racism, then you should expect that, especially when dating outside your race. It's a fact of life. You could try educating his friends on your culture/religion etc, be the change you want.

Dweetfidilove · 10/12/2024 13:43

Feelingathomenow · 10/12/2024 13:39

I’d rather be sat with a curious Dane than someone this aggressive

Whoopee for you 🎊

Feelingathomenow · 10/12/2024 13:41

TorroFerney · 10/12/2024 12:22

Exactly , if it’s not important to know if someone is Catholic then the same is true for all other religions. It doesn’t matter.

Are 99.9% of things we ask others important?

Feelingathomenow · 10/12/2024 13:39

Dweetfidilove · 10/12/2024 12:24

Or they could shut the fuck up and let her enjoy her beer 🤷🏾‍♀️.
It's fine choosing to be ignorant, even better with a closed mouth.

I’d rather be sat with a curious Dane than someone this aggressive

Feelingathomenow · 10/12/2024 13:36

BibbityBobbityToo · 10/12/2024 12:30

I don't blame you for being annoyed if you have to tell people 10 times a day what religion you are/are not. It's not something I would ever think to ask as a conversation starter and frankly, faith should be private unless you want to share that information.

As a white person, no one has ever asked me if I'm e.g Christian or Jewish so why would it be acceptable to ask someone who 'looks like a Muslim' (whatever that is!).

But, it clearly isn’t the last thing a Danish person would think to ask as it apparently happens so often. As this is happening in Denmark I would say that’s the measure here, not what would and wouldn’t happen in the UK

Annabella92 · 10/12/2024 13:05

Loisep · 10/12/2024 12:07

I have said I don’t assume that Danes will know a single thing about Sikhism. And that is MORE than okay. But it’s easier for some on this thread to paint me in a certain light to fit with their narratives of me wanting to cause trouble.

Ask me an open question re my religion and I will happily answer! I am obviously ignorant on many cultures. I don’t assume identity when I meet people from other cultures as I am nowhere near informed enough. I ask open ended questions when and if appropriate

To be fair, my partner met and knew many Sikhs when he was at Uni and lived in London and was very fond of them, much preferred them to Muslims.

BibbityBobbityToo · 10/12/2024 12:30

Loisep · 10/12/2024 12:19

All of a sudden mumsnet has no problem with ignorance.

And therefore we should accept the practice of child brides because it is a feature of certain cultures and they know no better?

Edited

I don't blame you for being annoyed if you have to tell people 10 times a day what religion you are/are not. It's not something I would ever think to ask as a conversation starter and frankly, faith should be private unless you want to share that information.

As a white person, no one has ever asked me if I'm e.g Christian or Jewish so why would it be acceptable to ask someone who 'looks like a Muslim' (whatever that is!).

Nolegusta · 10/12/2024 12:28

toucheee · 10/12/2024 12:26

How many times have you been asked to clarify your religion in a bar?

Again, eh?

ToWhitToWhoo · 10/12/2024 12:27

godmum56 · 10/12/2024 08:39

well yeah but that was around 40 years ago!

I think that the idea that Japan might belong to Hong Kong was probably indeed influenced by the fact that Hong Kong was still a British colony at that time.

However, I am not convinced that people's grasp of world geography and history has improved overall in the last 40 years. The Internet does make it easier to get correct information, but also makes it easier to get misinformation.

Nolegusta · 10/12/2024 12:27

Loisep · 10/12/2024 12:19

All of a sudden mumsnet has no problem with ignorance.

And therefore we should accept the practice of child brides because it is a feature of certain cultures and they know no better?

Edited

Eh?
What a massive jump and over reaction.

toucheee · 10/12/2024 12:26

Nolegusta · 10/12/2024 12:26

Eh?
Just clarify and move on.

How many times have you been asked to clarify your religion in a bar?

Nolegusta · 10/12/2024 12:26

toucheee · 10/12/2024 12:19

No, the grown up thing is to not ask in the first place. When did you last get asked in a bar if you're Christian?

Some people will never get that their micro aggressions are alienating and dangerous.

Eh?
Just clarify and move on.

Dweetfidilove · 10/12/2024 12:26

Ablondiebutagoody · 09/12/2024 20:28

I think that you hit the nail on the head with your last point. Denmark doesn't have the links with India that the UK does. Not their fault and at least their ancestors didn't slaughter loads of yours like the Brits did.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Dweetfidilove · 10/12/2024 12:24

Skyrainlight · 09/12/2024 20:53

So you go to another country and expect people there to understand your religion that they know nothing about because it's not part of their culture? Very unreasonable. The world does not revolve around you.

Or they could shut the fuck up and let her enjoy her beer 🤷🏾‍♀️.
It's fine choosing to be ignorant, even better with a closed mouth.

toucheee · 10/12/2024 12:23

Ginkypig · 10/12/2024 01:01

It’s one thing to not know the difference or to ask questions even if it seems a lot sometimes for the person facing it but it is quite another to see a brown person having a drink or eating certain foods etc and the question them as if in their eyes you are breaking religious rules.

they might not have experience of lots of other religions but they do know they exist so why question someones choices when you have no information except for the colour of their skin.
fine to be direct and inquisitive (if tiresome for the person) not fine to make comments (normally with a negative tone) on another’s choices with no information about them.

Exactly. Can you imagine the outcry if a Muslim asked a white person why they're eating or drinking something that they perceive to be forbidden to them?

The Muslim would be accused of being a fundamentalist and religious nut job.

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