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Sick of ignorant people re my religion

281 replies

Loisep · 09/12/2024 20:06

I’m married to a Dane. We met in London at university. We have a great relationship but the ignorance from his friends, family and acquaintances is almost too much to handle.

I am half Indian and was loosely raised Sikh. I think the UK does quite well in comparison to other countries re education on religion. Most Brits do not naturally assume I am Muslim.

That is not the case when I am in Denmark. God forbid I have a beer with new people. “Oh is that not halal?” Blah blah. I end up feeling guilty saying no I’m not Muslim all the time. Like I am distancing myself. I knew there would cultural differences but I never expected such ignorance. So many people think brown people = Arab (in Europe).

Dh wants to move back home and I would if it wasn’t for this extreme ignorance. I worry for future kids.

Am I the one with a chip on my shoulder? Should I just accept that people from other countries have been exposed to different cultural groups? Ie not had an Indian diaspora

OP posts:
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Plipo · 09/04/2025 13:49

Moonlightstars · 09/12/2024 23:38

I live in an area with lots of Sikh and Muslim families. I can usually work out who is who if people are still quite traditional. But it is all a massive generalisation based on brightness of clothes, amount of jewelry and amount of make up. This will sound bollocky and might be but also the Sikh friends/people I know have more almond shaped eyes and big eyelashes (men and women).

It’s very interesting that you picked up on this. And there is actually a reason why Sikhs tend to have more almond shaped eyes. As well as some other characteristics.

Many Sikhs belong to the Jatt ethnic group. And jatts have very significant genetic contributions from Central Asia/steppe (the highest in South Asia in fact) a result of the Indo-European migrations that took place around 1500 BCE. Jatts typically have around 25-35% steppe DNA. Much higher than anyone expected. There’s numerous theories as to why this may be - did they just mix less with other populations? Are jatts a product of a subsequent Indo European migration into India? The Scythians perhaps? Very possible due to the fact that Jatts’ homeland is in the very North of India. There have been many migrations/invasions into this part of the world

Fascinating!

(My phd touched on Central Asian migrations)

Pablova · 10/12/2024 20:25

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:42

The thing is, there are multiple Irish accents.

Telling an RC from a protestant in NI isn't really anything to do with accent either.

The OP expects Danes to do something that the vast majority of British people (outside of NI) wouldn't be able to do wrt people in their own country.

No she’s not asking Danish people to correctly identify what religion she is, she simply
does not appreciate the assumption they her skin colour means she is Muslim.

Pablova · 10/12/2024 20:19

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:27

Neither am I, fwiw.

But expecting people from different cultures to interact with you as if they were members of your culture is preposterous.

I don't expect British people to adopt Irish manners or ways of interacting when I'm in their company, in the UK. I adapt to them.

I’m not sure what I’m missing here.

The OP is pissed off, that, due to the colour of her skin / ethnicity, She was assumed to be a certain religion. A perfectly valid reason to be annoyed about, if it’s a regular occurrence.

Irrespective of the Danish culture being direct and forward, can you not see how this pisses the OP off?

I fully agree, we should adopt to the ways and culture of another country if we are visitors or reside there, but how does this excuse this assumption that skin colour equates to a certain religion, smacks of Ignorance to me.

DowntonFlabbie · 10/12/2024 20:15

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:42

The thing is, there are multiple Irish accents.

Telling an RC from a protestant in NI isn't really anything to do with accent either.

The OP expects Danes to do something that the vast majority of British people (outside of NI) wouldn't be able to do wrt people in their own country.

We're telling Danes not to assume all brown people are Muslim. That's something anyone can do. It's actually really really easy. You just don't do it.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/12/2024 19:47

The thing is, there are multiple Irish accents.

And many different looking 'brown people'.

Telling an RC from a protestant in NI isn't really anything to do with accent either.

And telling whether a person believes in a particular religion, or none, has very little to do with their skin colour.

The OP expects Danes to do something that the vast majority of British people (outside of NI) wouldn't be able to do wrt people in their own country.*

No, the only thing she wishes they'd do is something anyone is capable of. Simply, not making an assumption based purely on her colour. She doesn't expect them to know she's a Sikh.

Skyrainlight · 10/12/2024 19:47

Knulp · 10/12/2024 16:37

I am aware this thinking is incorrect, its why I used the phrase 'for my sins', and an assumption is just a thought, not a statement.

Let me give you an example

Although born in the UK, I have spent time in India, which in the early stages was a country very alien to me in many ways. I once remember on a very hot Christmas day seeing a white couple with English accents, and without thinking broke into a broad grin and wished them Merry Christmas.

would you find this offensive?

Some people will take offense at anything. As a white non Christian I would not take offensive at all. I celebrate Christmas despite not being Christian.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:42

ErrolTheDragon · 10/12/2024 19:34

Would you be able to identify Catholics from Protestants in Nortnern Ireland? I'm pretty sure I would.

If you couldn't though...the equivalent here is that someone who can't hears an Irish accent and makes an assumption one way or the other. That'd be sure to go down well.

The thing is, there are multiple Irish accents.

Telling an RC from a protestant in NI isn't really anything to do with accent either.

The OP expects Danes to do something that the vast majority of British people (outside of NI) wouldn't be able to do wrt people in their own country.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/12/2024 19:34

Would you be able to identify Catholics from Protestants in Nortnern Ireland? I'm pretty sure I would.

If you couldn't though...the equivalent here is that someone who can't hears an Irish accent and makes an assumption one way or the other. That'd be sure to go down well.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:27

Pablova · 10/12/2024 19:13

Ok, but I’m not British.

Neither am I, fwiw.

But expecting people from different cultures to interact with you as if they were members of your culture is preposterous.

I don't expect British people to adopt Irish manners or ways of interacting when I'm in their company, in the UK. I adapt to them.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:24

Lintu · 10/12/2024 00:29

It's not your job to educate ignorant people, either on this thread or in real life.

Although having said that, instead of saying "I'm not Muslim" could you preface it with something like "Do you know in the UK, it's generally considered rude to ask someone their religion?". Because it seems like not only is your Sikh heritage being erased but you're also being asked to ignore your British heritage.

Yeah, the Danes would love being told they're not behaving in a sufficiently British manner.

When in Denmark...

...be straightforward.

Answer questions directly.
Respond matter ofnfactly to comments.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:21

Loisep · 09/12/2024 23:20

I know not all Middle Easterners are Arabs (I actually did type that out in the post you quote but deleted it). The thing is if/when I meet someone from the ME I don’t automatically ask “are you Muslim? or “are you Arab?”. I wait for that info to be shared if it ever is.

I’m not going around articulating false assumptions

That may be because you have a good deal of experience of the cultures and people ME or India.

Can you not accept that the Danes do not, for many reasons?

Would you be able to identify Catholics from Protestants in Nortnern Ireland? I'm pretty sure I would.

Pablova · 10/12/2024 19:13

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:12

That's a very British attitude.

The Danes are not British.

Expecting a British sense of what anyone should or shouldn't ask is more than a bit Little Englandish.

Ok, but I’m not British.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:12

Pablova · 09/12/2024 22:16

No one should assume anyone’s religion, nor make passing remarks on anyone’s presumed religion.

That's a very British attitude.

The Danes are not British.

Expecting a British sense of what anyone should or shouldn't ask is more than a bit Little Englandish.

uptheculdesac · 10/12/2024 19:10

@mathanxiety

To their credit, they're asking so they can find out - they're not assuming.
Why are they asking at all? When was the last time you asked people what religion they were? I can't think when I last might have and there would have been a very specific context.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:10

TheBitchOfTheVicar · 09/12/2024 21:48

If they don't care, why are they continually asking OP if she is a Muslim?

Because they're very direct (being Scandinavian) and ask personal questions that would make a Brit blush. Also, they possibly have an inkling that she may not be Muslim and they're curious.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:07

IVFmumoftwo · 09/12/2024 21:39

Plenty of Indians are Christian. A bit racist to presume she is Muslim.

Not "plenty". Some. A very small number.

The Danes are seeing in the OP what they are familiar with. South Asians are Muslims, as far as they're concerned. To their credit, they're asking so they can find out - they're not assuming.

Though, overall, the anti Islamic feeling in Denmark really is racist.

mathanxiety · 10/12/2024 19:01

TooBigForMyBoots · 09/12/2024 20:45

Why should the OP have to research any history of Denmark and Islam?Confused She is not Muslim.

It accounts for the questions, which she would know if she did some research. And she should do the research if her husband thinks it's a good idea to live there.

Pp is right, Danish people don't have much historical context to go on when it comes to some cultures.

They do have some recent context though, and they want to know if you're Muslim because there is a certain negative view of Muslims in Danish society. (Re: "recent history" remark).

Blackdovedown · 10/12/2024 18:12

Feelingathomenow · 10/12/2024 09:56

Are you normally this racist? I simply asked closer to what, closeness geographically, in time, in culture? And to closeness do whom? It’s not difficult, it is not my fault that you immediately whip out inaccurate racist comments about the English when someone asks you to explain your very vague statement.

Ah, pet, did you skip politics, ethics and sociology too? Pointing out that the curriculum in the England tends to happily skip over colonialism and other awkward aspects of British ( mostly English) history is t racist.

Fimofriend · 10/12/2024 18:10

RisingSunn · 10/12/2024 09:15

But I’m guessing white people (let’s say British in for this example) won’t get asked this in Denmark

So if religion is not a thing in a region…let it not be a thing.

But British people do get asked about their religion because members of Church of England call themselves protestants but some of the rituals look very Catholic to Danes. Since British television series are often shown in Denmark people know about the rituals and wonder about them.

Lintu · 10/12/2024 18:06

MumChp · 10/12/2024 00:38

Many Danes would think 'Oh well go home to UK if you don't like the Danish way of living'. They wouldn't stop being direct in their style of communication.

Edited

You see again from a UK perspective telling someone to "go home" because you disagree with them would be quite racist.

If the DH's friends or family are likely to visit here then the OP might like to get them up to speed on when and how to ask about religion in the UK - at least enough that they won't cause trouble for the OP or get themselves arrested.

The whole point of this thread is that the op is unsure if it's a good idea to move to a country where she regularly experiences casual racism from her own family.
So far the narrative has been;

  1. no Denmark isn't racist
  2. well even if they are that's just the culture and you can't change it

In a similar situation I didn't move to my DH's home country. We didn't stay in University town either but instead looked at places in the UK with good transport links to both home country and home region. Then narrowed it down by considering suitable job prospects for us both and finally considered what hobbies we have. We found somewhere that suits us and is cheaper than London.
@Loisep Could you make a similar list and then start a thread on asking for ideas for where to live near towns XY and Z?

uptheculdesac · 10/12/2024 17:55

@MumChp

Tbh I think people ask because they know Islam. They can't ask if you are Sikh as it wouldn't be a religion most Danes know about.
I can't think when I last asked what if any religion someone was

Thepurplepig · 10/12/2024 17:55

This thread honestly. If you don’t understand why the OP as a Sikh is upset at constantly being asked if she’s Muslim you need to go and do some reading.

I suspect you look like my friend in college. Absolutely can pass for anything. I had absolutely no idea she was Indian until we were discussing racism one day and the tutor asked how she deals with racism as an Indian. I lived a pretty sheltered existence I guess.

NapTrappedAgain · 10/12/2024 17:55

YANBU to have reservations about moving somewhere where there is less familiarity and understanding of your religion than where you currently live and I think it’s understandable to factor that into your decision making. It’s also understandable to feel frustrated by people making incorrect assumptions about your religion based on your appearance. But unfortunately there’s not much you can do about it if you do want to move to Denmark but accept they just don’t have the same cultural references as the UK and the average person isn’t as aware of certain cultures and religions as they might be here.

This reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with a colleague from the US. I asked if she was Sikh as she’d mentioned her middle name in passing and I knew from a friend at school that it was a common Sikh name. She was really surprised and said nobody back home in the US knew much about Sikhism at all. Which I remember finding really strange at the time as the basics are covered pretty well in primary schools here.

uptheculdesac · 10/12/2024 17:51

mathanxiety · 09/12/2024 20:07

If you're not aware of the recent history of Denmark and Islam you need to do some research.

Why?

Fimofriend · 10/12/2024 17:43

IVFmumoftwo · 09/12/2024 21:53

So was Lindisfarne. I am sure the Native people of Greenland were treated wonderfully either. What relevance is this anyway?

Uhm. The Inuit people of Greenland arrived later than the Scandinavians.

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