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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask for parenting advice

35 replies

9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 17:00

My 7 year old son is on the waiting list for an autism and adhd assessment - instigated by school (we're on the 2nd year of an apparently 4 year waiting list). Up until year 3 he was fine in school with the additional support school provides. However year 3 has seen a massive change in his behaviour and he has been having extreme meltdowns including flipping tables, throwing things, and lashing out at teachers. When asked why, he just says something happened that wasn't fair.

I feel like I've tried everything and I don't know what to do.

At school he has:
Sensory items
Fidget toys
Brain breaks
A shared 1:1 (so a 1:2)
Emotion cards
Regulation time
Allowances for schoolwork

At home we:
Do regulation exercises / practice
Model regulation
Talk

In addition I have tried a reward chart (it made no difference). He rarely uses screens (he has no interest in computer games and we just don't tend to put the tele on) so there is nothing in that sense to reduce. The closest to a 'punishment' is to not let him play with lego but that doesn't seem linked to his behaviour.

I have a meeting booked with an education psychologist (although I'm unsure what they do). School are very supportive but they are also at a loss.

Other parents are very understandably worried about the environment being unsafe for their children and I think it's unfair on the other children that their learning is being disrupted.

I have suggested to school that I remove my child from the classroom until further support is available but given we don't know what that support would look like and how long it would take to source, that could take forever and I don't have unlimited leave from work.

Help please. What do I do?!

OP posts:
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Happyinarcon · 10/12/2024 08:12

He’s told you things are happening at school which aren’t fair. Ask them if they use the positive behavior model (I think that’s the name) in the class. This will mean your child will be punished for behavior that the teacher will ignore if another child does it. It’s supposed to encourage bad kids to behave better by overly praising them when they’re good and turning a blind eye when they are bad.

In reality it means that a bad kid will call out the answer to a question without putting their hand up and the teacher will praise them, but if your kid does it the teacher will punish him, often disproportionately punish him. This will go on and on until your kid blows a fuse.

It’s not fair, that’s what you child is trying to tell you. Please listen to him and be on his side. Ask him for details of specific events, help him explain what’s going on even if he’s struggling to pinpoint it.

PurpleThistle7 · 10/12/2024 07:07

My daughter has SEN and exercise and being active is key. It's very obvious when she's not been outside enough or if she skips her dance class for any reason. I know the weather isn't the best but I would try prioritising being outside - or at least being active - and see if that helps. Could the 1:2 take him to an outside area for regular breaks? Could he take his work outside at times? Could you flex your work hours at all to take him on a longer walk to or from school to make sure he's moving around more often? My kids' primary school has an outdoor classroom and nature walks and such and that was brilliant for her - she's struggling a lot in high school with being inside and sitting for the entire day.

romdowa · 10/12/2024 06:49

Working with him around "fairness" would also probably since it seems to set him off. Social stories are great for that , either pre printed books or just a visual board that you make yourself or even get him involved in making it.

Phineyj · 10/12/2024 06:40

A lot of private insurance doesn't cover this stuff. I fell foul of that. It was all excluded. A friend had good experiences with Bupa. But she already had the policy when her son's difficulties became apparent.

Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:24

SuperSleepyBaby · 09/12/2024 22:21

the most helpful skill my son learned was to ask to take a break when he started feeling a little bit stressed. Someone would bring him for a walk and he could complain about what was annoying him and get it out of his system - instead of shouting in the class. He is 15 now and probably one of the very best behaved in his year - he still asks to take breaks now and then.

We've been working on this and when he does it, it's great but he seems to struggle with realising he's about to explode. I'll persevere, thank you.

OP posts:
SuperSleepyBaby · 09/12/2024 22:21

the most helpful skill my son learned was to ask to take a break when he started feeling a little bit stressed. Someone would bring him for a walk and he could complain about what was annoying him and get it out of his system - instead of shouting in the class. He is 15 now and probably one of the very best behaved in his year - he still asks to take breaks now and then.

Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:21

Wigglywoowho · 09/12/2024 19:48

Are you able to afford to go private?

My son’s dad is looking into getting private health care which should allow us to do so in the new year. From what I understand though, I don’t think a lot more support becomes available just because of the diagnosis. We have looked at what we can access through the private health insurance in addition to the diagnosis though and it includes child mental health support which I’m hoping might be able to help with emotional regulation.

OP posts:
Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:19

Phineyj · 09/12/2024 19:37

@Plastictrees OK, well of course you know best about your own geographical area & practice. My DD was diagnosed by a paediatrician along with a speech and language therapist (ADOS and Qb Check). I've never heard of educational psychologists being involved in diagnosis round here.

Then again, Mencap has the contract for parent support for ASD round here and I would have never guessed that!

What I think this probably demonstrates, OP, is that as the system is not at all parent-friendly, it would be a good idea to get to know local parents with similar children and ask about their routes to assessment, school recommendations, etc.

I found my people on a parent support group on Facebook linked from the websites of one of the ADHD/ASD charities.

I completely agree about the system not being parent friendly. I’d like a nice neat flow chart telling me what steps to take to get diagnosis/ support for my child and no one can give me anything because it’s different for each area/ age/ needs/ shoe size! It’s ridiculous.

OP posts:
Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:18

coxesorangepippin · 09/12/2024 19:32

How's his diet??

Is he exercising??

It’s interesting you ask this as I realised earlier that this has coincided with him stopping going to swimming classes and with the darker (wetter) nights we don’t go to the park as often after school. I wonder if there is a connection. Luckily his diet is good – he eats everything.

OP posts:
Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:15

TwixForTea · 09/12/2024 18:15

what is he like after his episodes at school and what is he like at home? Do the self regulation exercises work at home? If yes then I wonder if it is something the teacher is doing that is inadvertently triggering your ds, given this wasn’t such a big problem the last several years.

What perceived unfairness is he noticing? What’s the classroom like compared to last year? Would he be better off sitting alone (less irritating than sitting with others)?

I wonder if you can help him find a way of encountering theses “injustices” without an explosion, maybe find a way for him to register his annoyance that doesn’t lead to a meltdown.

You could also point out to him that he may feel annoyed about some grievance, and he kicks off - but then what? Billy feels annoyed because he couldn’t concentrate on his work because your ds was making a fuss - does that give Billy a right to have a huge meltdown …and then won’t that upset Alice, and then she’ll have a hissy fit, which will upset Arav and he will throw something and so on.

If we are talking unfair, would your ds see the logic that his unacceptable behaviour is unfair on the entire class? And if everyone behaved like your ds, what does he think would happen then?

He may have adhd and autism but he may see the logic of this. And that allowing himself to lose control to the extent other children don’t feel safe, is something he must change and must want to change.

it’s worth a try.

Thank you x

Immediately after he takes himself off to a corner to regulate (and can’t be touched till this has happened) – he then fixates on the perceived unfairness rather than the violence. The unfairness could be someone pushing in, someone saying something unkind to his friend, someone taking his pen without asking – it hugely varies. I’ll have a think on how he could register the annoyance – maybe a book that he writes it in and we can discuss after school? Although he goes from 0-60 so quick I don’t know that he’d remember to write stuff down.

At home, the only time when I see any sort of violence is when he is getting annoyed with his brother. He tends to hit out but most of the time purposely prevents himself from making contact.

The classroom is much louder this year apparently and I wonder if its that. He says he likes the year 3 teacher and he is really enjoying the school topics. I have spoken to school about him learning in a quieter environment so will follow up on if that’s possible.

His dad had a very similar conversation with him (he told him he needed to set his own boundaries in his head and it was up to him to want to stick to those boundaries) and I have spoken to him about how this is affecting his friends. I think he does care but in the moment he doesn’t have the regulation tools to stop himself.

OP posts:
Uokhunnnn · 09/12/2024 22:15

Also, join local SEND parents’ groups (on Facebook etc) as they’re an invaluable source of info and support.

Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:11

Phineyj · 09/12/2024 17:43

An educational psychologist won't diagnose anything - paediatricians do that. But they will look at how he's doing at school and suggest strategies.

I suggest:

  1. Speak to your GP about Choose and Book to speed up the assessment (there are also places like Caudwell Children's you can ask for a referral to). Or go private? You don't need a diagnosis to get support but if as a pp says, his triggers are sensory, it could throw some light on that.
  2. Keep a diary, as detailed as possible. Try to find out the triggers for the incidents at school. Notice what regulates him at home.
  3. Do not remove him from school! And do not let them send him home without exclusion paperwork. Incidents at school are quite helpful in gathering evidence for EHCP.
  4. Make a parental request for EHCP. The Ipsea website has lots of helpful info.
  5. Don't concern yourself with other children. That's not your responsibility.
  6. Don't risk your job. SEN is expensive. Keep earning as long as you can.

This is really helpful, thank you so much. The class has been such a supportive and inclusive place over the past three years (the children are genuinely all lovely) and it’s such a shame it’s ended up with some of them feeling scared to go to school. I do have to keep reminding myself that it’s not my responsibility though as it’s not helping anyone me worrying about it.

OP posts:
SuperSleepyBaby · 09/12/2024 22:11

Could he wear ear defenders to help with the noise?

Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:09

Kentuckycriedfrickin · 09/12/2024 17:29

Just from reading what support he currently has in school I can see thing missing that they should be doing and that I'd be using in my role (LSA supporting children with SEND).

Speak to them about:

  • daily sensory circuit before every classroom session (so during registration, after break time, after lunch, etc). These help with sensory regulation and also with routine building.
  • SEMH interventions around managing feelings, socio-emotion communication, fostering empathy, etc. They could be employing things like circle of friends, Lego therapy, TalkAbout, nurture sessions. ELSA strategies. These are all worth exploring
  • Zones of Regulation to help him recognise and name his emotions with progressive support towards being able to communicate his feelings.

School shouldn't be "at a loss".

This is beyond valuable, thank you so much

OP posts:
Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:07

Kentuckycriedfrickin · 09/12/2024 17:20

Does he has an EHCP? You don't need a diagnosis and you can apply for it yourself, although it sounds like school would support you in this. IPSEA have a template letter on their website that you can use to request an assessment of his needs and there are legal timescales in place for the LEA to respond.

I'm presuming he has a pupil passport/SEN support plan? You need to meet with the SENCO to review it and discuss what the best support is going to be for him. This support should include monitoring of his cues and triggers to minimise his stress so that he doesn't reach the table flipping stage. That school aren't doing this is a bit of a failure on their part, they need to be more pro-active with this (again, this is where a formalised assessment of needs via EHCP will be helpful).

He doesn’t have an EHCP because he hasn’t needed one before now but I think the school is going to suggest one now (which I’m happy with and will do myself if they don’t) – unfortunately the SENCO has been off poorly so I’ve been getting information second hand but I think that’s what has been alluded to. That’s really useful information about the IPSEA and LEA, thank you.

Yes, he has a SEN support plan. When I’m speaking to various school staff they’re all telling me that I need to speak to the SENCO but with him being off poorly, I’m a bit stuck. I put my foot down today and said something needs to happen in the meantime and the deputy head said he’d call me tomorrow to discuss. Thanks to you and others on this thread I have really practical things I can follow up on.

OP posts:
Plastictrees · 09/12/2024 22:07

9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:05

Thank you. My son’s father is looking to get health insurance through his work and then we should be able to go private for the diagnosis. My understanding though is the diagnosis doesn’t open up much additional support unfortunately. Strategies and tools is what I need so hopefully the educational psychologist can help in that respect.

Show quote history

Yes I think that is often the case sadly. Hopefully it goes well with the psychologist. Wishing you the best of luck.

Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:05

Plastictrees · 09/12/2024 17:13

I don’t have personal experience of this but I just wanted to add that meeting with an educational psychologist should hopefully be helpful for you; they are often trained to diagnose neurodivergence and have lots of helpful strategies and tools. A 4 year wait is horrendous! Would you be able to go private for an assessment? It is expensive which means lots of people have no choice but to wait. Wishing you and your son the best OP.

Thank you. My son’s father is looking to get health insurance through his work and then we should be able to go private for the diagnosis. My understanding though is the diagnosis doesn’t open up much additional support unfortunately. Strategies and tools is what I need so hopefully the educational psychologist can help in that respect.

OP posts:
Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:02

Mandylovescandy · 09/12/2024 17:08

Is he open to discuss it a little more and try to find solutions? I guess trying to figure out what triggers these episodes are key. Can his 1-2 shed any light on what is happening beforehand? Tricky. Have a 8 year autistic boy and often feel like I have no idea what to do parenting wise. Have you read the low demand parenting book? Might help identify things that are demands that are getting to be too much for him?

At first he was happy to discuss but the more I push it the more he has shut down. I think he’s feeling shame (although difficult to tell). His 1:2 has said she can see when he’s about to ‘go’ but if she’s not near him at that precise moment she can’t intervene in time. The actual trigger differs each time. The classroom in year 3 is apparently noisier (lots of differing needs – it’s a mainstream school but with a good reputation for SEN support so a higher than average proportion of kids in the class have additional needs) and I wonder if that has affected him. But there’s not a lot the school can do about that unfortunately.

I haven’t read that book – I’ll get it, thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
9hdtvey54r · 09/12/2024 22:00

I just wanted to say a huge thank you to all of you that took time to respond. I’ve been feeling helpless and it has really helped to read through the practical tips and messages of support. I’ll try to respond to your questions individually too. Thank you

OP posts:
Wigglywoowho · 09/12/2024 19:48

Are you able to afford to go private?

Phineyj · 09/12/2024 19:40

@TwixForTea might work with some kids but that would have utterly gone over DD's head at 7. At 11 she still has little insight into why she loses it.

She's very intelligent and highly verbal but it's a bit Hulk! Smash! round here. Better with age though.

Phineyj · 09/12/2024 19:37

@Plastictrees OK, well of course you know best about your own geographical area & practice. My DD was diagnosed by a paediatrician along with a speech and language therapist (ADOS and Qb Check). I've never heard of educational psychologists being involved in diagnosis round here.

Then again, Mencap has the contract for parent support for ASD round here and I would have never guessed that!

What I think this probably demonstrates, OP, is that as the system is not at all parent-friendly, it would be a good idea to get to know local parents with similar children and ask about their routes to assessment, school recommendations, etc.

I found my people on a parent support group on Facebook linked from the websites of one of the ADHD/ASD charities.

coxesorangepippin · 09/12/2024 19:32

How's his diet??

Is he exercising??

Phineyj · 09/12/2024 19:29

Well it's definitely not educational psychologists! Clue's in the name.

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