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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To stipulate minimum number of nights at home for DD?

756 replies

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 08:48

DD turned 18 a few months ago. Her 18th birthday coincided with her meeting a new boyfriend who she is inseparable from. She spends around 1-3 nights per fortnight at home, and that's only to sleep / occasionally grab food or a shower. She doesn't converse with anyone (unless to ask for lifts or to borrow cash), and she certainly doesn't do any housework. Since this time there have been numerous issues and arguments; mostly around the following themes:

  • constant requests for lifts from me or partner (although this has declined since her boyfriend passed his driving test a few weeks ago as he's seemingly the taxi now)
  • never doing any housework
  • never being at home long enough to converse with anyone and all her interactions being requests for something
  • letting me and her little sister down after agreeing to do something with us and then dropping us in favour of the boyfriend (little sister is only 3 so doesn't understand and gets very upset about her big sister not being there)
  • more recently me and my partner (her step dad) we're both told to "fuck off" when we were unable to facilitate a lift whilst juggling bedtime and household tasks between us after work one evening (she later apologised for this; but it's left a very sour taste)
  • boyfriend got involved in disagreement following the above incident, and whilst I was the on the phone to her during a heated discussion about that, I was apparently on loudspeaker as I could hear the boyfriend chirping up "just hang up on her" (to my daughter about me)

I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't. All I get from her is, "it's normal for me to want to be at his house more often he's a new boyfriend". However, she makes time for her dad, her dad's side of the family, my sister (her aunt who's she close to), her friends, and her boyfriend. The only person she lets down and seems to not want to be around is me.

She pays no board (she's at college and works part time earning only about £70-100 a week so I've never taken any money off her). I pay for her phone contract. She doesn't contribute to the food shop here but does buy her own takeaways etc . Her only regular bill is a gym membership.

I've suggested to her since she appears to not live here anymore that she moves out and pays her boyfriends mum board? The response was "I don't want to move out". But 1-3 nights here a fortnight on average would suggest she pretty much has moved out. She has the largest room in the house and it's just wasted space, it's never occupied.

My AIBU is, would I be unreasonable to stipulate that if she wants to continue to live here that I put in place the following rules:

1- she actually occupies her room more regularly than 1-3 times a fortnight? So set a minimum number.
2- she pulls her weight with household tasks and until I see her doing so on a regular basis without any prompting or nagging, I will charge her board. I will stop charging board once she pulls her weight regularly.

Does this sound reasonable? My head is a total mess with it all, I'm struggling to disentangle the emotion from the practical side, so it may come across as garbled. I'm not a good place with it all tbh as I feel so lost and as though she just dislikes me for some reason 😔

Any help appreciated.

OP posts:
toucheee · 09/12/2024 16:49

SorcererGaheris · 09/12/2024 15:54

People don’t hold back in AIBU. I’ve had my arse handed to me a few times here.

But if people aren't holding back to the point of actual rudeness, I'd say that is not robust debate. It's far beyond that.

It could be argued that rudeness and insults actually are detrimental to robust debate, as it makes the person with whom you're disagreeing justifiably angry and upset. They're then less likely to consider any sensible points that you did make. (I'm using 'you' to mean generally/collectively here, not 'you' to mean you personally.)

I agree, but I can't change AIBU, so I just try to support the OP to counteract the rudeness.

CandyMaker · 09/12/2024 16:47

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:31

I think we've already had this one, but because you haven't read it, I'll reiterate:

  1. Cleaning up after herself in the bathroom, eg cleaning fake tan from off the bath / toilet seat
  2. Washing her own clothes or at least making some sort of effort to pop a wash on now and then, just so show a bit of willing instead of throwing her stuff in the basket week after week
  3. Bringing plates and cups out of her bedroom and at least placing them in the sink if she can't be arsed to put them in the dishwasher
  4. Perhaps run a hoover around her bedroom once a week

Mainly those things. I did way more than that at her age so compared to my step mum my expectations are very low!

  1. You have mentioned the fake tan smears many times, but I think this only happened once? You are I think focusing on fairly trivial incidents as hooks to explain how you are feeling. This is why I think you need more support to look at your feelings.
  2. Tell her you want her to wash her own clothes if you want. Personally I would not as your relationship at the moment sounds poor.
  3. EVERY parent I know complains about plates and cups not being brought out of the bedroom of teenagers. Its annoying, but common. If she is not spending much time there, there cant be many plates and cups, so I would just let this go for the moment.
  4. I would not be hoovering once a week a room I barely spent any time in. Generally its better to let teenagers decide what they do with their own rooms unless it would actually attract vermin.
teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:46

@IdaGlossop @HelloWorldItsNiceToMeetYou
No I haven't invited him here as yet but it's something to consider, thank you

OP posts:
Over40Overdating · 09/12/2024 16:45

@teenmumstress24 your instinctive response - even just in your head - to get your daughter back to who and where you want her to be was to make threats about her room, board, moving out. This is emotionally manipulative behaviour. Even if you don’t act on it, your automatic thoughts on someone hurting your feelings is punishment.

That can be a trauma response or a sign of immaturity. I’m guessing given your earlier references its trauma in your case.

We are hearing how you feel, what you want, your pain. You’ve sidelined any query about how your daughter might feel, saying you gave her everything and have been the best mother, the problem is her making you feel bad because she wants a life that doesn’t include you right now.

The only thing you’ve quoted verbatim from your daughter is fuck off / bratty behaviour.

I can only see positive references to your daughter from when she was behaving as you want. No one changes that drastically in 8 weeks so she’s either always been the bratty person you are portraying here but at least biddable, or she’s a normal teenager who is being a bit self centred and trying out being an adult for the first time, which you don’t like.

If you had a very close relationship for the first 9 years of her life, she may not feel able to say ‘I want to be with BF and his mum because I do feel left out here. I do feel like a spare part’ if this ‘new’ life has made you happy in a way the old life didn’t.

If the way you are responding to the situation and valid criticism on here is how you usually react when things change or you are upset, even if you think you hide it, there’s no way she would ever have that conversation with you.

You’ve referred to your daughter as an adult several times - when it comes to pulling her weight in the house - but want to make demands on her as if she is a child when it comes to your emotional needs.

Instead of woe is me, everyone is being so awful, put that energy into seeking out a trained professional who can give you the tools to manage your reactions because they are not commensurate with what is happening but will result in damage to your relationship if you don’t change course.

HelloWorldItsNiceToMeetYou · 09/12/2024 16:44

IdaGlossop · 09/12/2024 16:36

Coming a bit late to this discussion and feeling for OP. This stage of DD separation from home is behind me now but having been through it, I can reiterate what other posters have said: all of this is normal - hardly ever at home, prefers to be with boyfriend, uses house as a hotel. If the purpose of parenthood is to bring up small humans to be independent, then confident separation shows a job well done.

One thing I haven't seen discussed (the thread is long; apologies if I've missed it) is why the boyfriend is not spending any time with DD at your house. Is that something you could encourage, OP?

That's a really good point and might be a good way forward.

Plastictrees · 09/12/2024 16:43

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees AIBU can be brutal however as I said many, many pages ago - the OP has received so many intelligent and insightful responses which she chooses to either disregard or discredit, if they don’t fit her fixed narrative. She has been very attacking and outright nasty to posters, for example trying to discredit my job, when they offer an alternative perspective. How we communicate on here does provide an insight into our communication offline, and it is no surprise to me that the OP is struggling with her daughter. She continues to take absolutely zero responsibility and not reflect on her part in the dynamic at all. I think posters have been very patient, especially considering how rude and aggressive the OP has been. I frequently post in AIBU and had nothing but good intentions and well thought out posts for the OP, who either ignored my posts and then responded with nastiness I’ve never experienced on MN! Posting here was probably not helpful for her mental health, rather than recognise this and move on she continues to post here, attacking posters whilst painting herself as a victim. No consideration of the dynamic she has even created here on this thread - which is actually quite similar to the one with her daughter!

It has been fascinating to observe the amount of people enabling the OP, and encouraging her dislike and paranoia towards her daughter’s boyfriend. No one has said that it is acceptable to be sworn at by your child, and people have had empathy for the OP’s feelings of rejection, but it is always wise to self reflect and consider our role in a dynamic. Particularly as the OP has stated how emotionally impacted she is by her daughter’s 8 week relationship, which seems a very strong reaction and is likely linked to past events/traumas. It is important to have insight into these experiences so that unhelpful patterns are not replicated, and also so that the OPs daughter is not negatively impacted by the OPs mental health difficulties. The ‘be kind’ brigade are well-meaning but just serve to keep the OP where she is (angry and unhappy, blaming everyone else) rather than consider alternative perspectives and causes of action which may be helpful. Often the greatest kindness is saying something difficult, that the person may not want to hear, but can be more helpful long term if considered. It is no wonder many of the more insightful posters left many pages back, their words fell on deaf ears. The OP has not painted herself in a good light at all, hopefully she can get some distance from this thread and look at it more objectively in time. And most importantly, seek psychological therapy if she has not already done so. Being a parent to a teenager can be massively triggering for many reasons, particularly if you have a history of interpersonal trauma, and there is no shame at all in seeking therapy to navigate your emotions during this tumultuous time.

Or, just blame the boyfriend.

CandyMaker · 09/12/2024 16:41

CrazyGoatLady · 09/12/2024 16:30

She did tell her mum and partner to fuck off though? And promised to do something with her mum sister and didn't keep that commitment.

Seeing a lot of her bf doesn't in itself = treating her family badly but OP did mention those two incidents and I think being called out for things like that is fair.

The DD apologised for saying fuck off. It was one incident, lets not blow it out of proportion.
The DD also once promised to do something with her sister and did not. Again lets not blow it out of proportion.
You can't expect the DD to be perfect. She will not be.

Haggia · 09/12/2024 16:38

I stand by my “poor kid” comment OP. Reading your posts, to me it’s blatantly obvious she’s feeling pushed out and #2. I do genuinely feel sorry for her. You pick and choose things out of context to victimise yourself.

The way you come across, I do not feel sorry for you personally as I think you’re not handling the situation beyond what you need from it.

As for Cinder-fuckin-rella, that comes from Pretty Woman and was tongue in cheek. Which I’m sure you realised but, again, selective context.

I hope you can step back from your emotions and think of the best way to help your daughter, otherwise she is very likely going to move in with an 18 year old she has known for 8 weeks. And whose family, you have not met. While she is studying for her A levels.

IdaGlossop · 09/12/2024 16:36

Coming a bit late to this discussion and feeling for OP. This stage of DD separation from home is behind me now but having been through it, I can reiterate what other posters have said: all of this is normal - hardly ever at home, prefers to be with boyfriend, uses house as a hotel. If the purpose of parenthood is to bring up small humans to be independent, then confident separation shows a job well done.

One thing I haven't seen discussed (the thread is long; apologies if I've missed it) is why the boyfriend is not spending any time with DD at your house. Is that something you could encourage, OP?

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:31

allthatfalafel · 09/12/2024 16:27

What household tasks are you expecting her to be doing when she's only in a couple of nights a fortnight? Cleaning up after everyone else?

I think we've already had this one, but because you haven't read it, I'll reiterate:

  1. Cleaning up after herself in the bathroom, eg cleaning fake tan from off the bath / toilet seat
  2. Washing her own clothes or at least making some sort of effort to pop a wash on now and then, just so show a bit of willing instead of throwing her stuff in the basket week after week
  3. Bringing plates and cups out of her bedroom and at least placing them in the sink if she can't be arsed to put them in the dishwasher
  4. Perhaps run a hoover around her bedroom once a week

Mainly those things. I did way more than that at her age so compared to my step mum my expectations are very low!

OP posts:
CrazyGoatLady · 09/12/2024 16:30

CandyMaker · 09/12/2024 16:15

@CrazyGoatLady she is not treating the OP badly. She has been seeing a boyfriend for 8 weeks, so spending lots of time with him. That is all.

She did tell her mum and partner to fuck off though? And promised to do something with her mum sister and didn't keep that commitment.

Seeing a lot of her bf doesn't in itself = treating her family badly but OP did mention those two incidents and I think being called out for things like that is fair.

allthatfalafel · 09/12/2024 16:27

What household tasks are you expecting her to be doing when she's only in a couple of nights a fortnight? Cleaning up after everyone else?

CrazyGoatLady · 09/12/2024 16:26

All of this arises from feelings though, doesn't it?

Yes, of course, and it's evident you are having a hard time. But kindly OP, as adults and parents, we are responsible for what we do with those feelings. That goes for posters who are horrid on Mumsnet too! Posts on here can trigger people's own stuff, and they might not always be aware of it. I know I've sometimes been harsher than I intended and when I have, it's usually because the post pushed some button or other. Stepfamily dynamics often do that on here I find. For me too, because I have half siblings and as soon as they came along, I was expected to be a helpmate, not a daughter, and I resented it badly. My parents got new partners, and I didn't feel fully like I fitted in anywhere. My first boyfriend was a big deal too for that reason. The first time I felt like I wasn't a tag on to someone else's unit and I had something of my own. I'm not saying that's how your daughter feels - that may not be behind it. But being the only child from an ex relationship in a sea of new families can be hard.

Most posters on here that are actually going to be helpful to you IME will offer a mixture of empathy and pragmatism, and sometimes a little tough love. Sometimes we are so deep into a situation we can't see the wood for the trees, and when we're in that place, sometimes just having your feelings validated isn't helpful, because it doesn't help you do anything differently. It just entrenches you more in a "poor you" place. And it sounds like you really need this situation to change. But we sometimes have to change what we are doing/how we are reacting first, and look at what is in our control and what isn't.

Best of luck with it. Teenage girls are a peculiar breed (I know I certainly was!)

CandyMaker · 09/12/2024 16:26

SpecialKate · 09/12/2024 16:22

If I'd "laughed in my mum's face" I'd have been looking for somewhere else to live...that very same day.

I trust your own teenagers afford you the same level of respect you seem to have had for your own mother; you clearly deserve it.

I am sorry you did not have a better mum.

CandyMaker · 09/12/2024 16:25

@teenmumstress24 Thanks for explaining.
Just to add, the last thing you want to do now is anything that would encourage her to move in with her boyfriend.

ACynicalDad · 09/12/2024 16:24

You sound unreasonable, she will want her room as a base, but if she's not messing up the house then why should she clean it. The biggest thing on the list to me is saying she'd do something with her little sister and not doing it.

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:23

@CandyMaker
It was more my attempt to say, look if that's what you want to do, it's fine, like almost giving her the permission she might need to say ok yes I want to move out. But she insists she doesn't. So I was wrong about that.

OP posts:
SpecialKate · 09/12/2024 16:22

MocktailMe · 09/12/2024 15:44

I would have laughed in my mum's face if she told me I had to be at home at 18. You can't ground an adult.

That said, I did have my own car. I probably wouldn't give her any more lifts, but maybe try being friendly when she is at home, rather than nagging her to do housework (especially as she's barely there to have made mess?). Leave her be, she'll be back.

If I'd "laughed in my mum's face" I'd have been looking for somewhere else to live...that very same day.

I trust your own teenagers afford you the same level of respect you seem to have had for your own mother; you clearly deserve it.

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:22

@CandyMaker

It was part of a general discussion about how few nights she spends here and how we never see her or hear from her unless she wants money or lifts. I said to her "is it becuase you want to move out? Because it's ok if that what you want to do?" As part of me trying to understand it. She replied no that's not what I want at all. And that was that. Nothing at all to do with an attempt to "punish" her. It was my attempt to better understand.

OP posts:
teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:20

Ahsoka2001 · 09/12/2024 16:16

What are you gonna do when she moves out? She won't be able to do household chores or occupy her room X number of times then will she?

What do you mean what am I going to do? I'm going to do ... nothing? What can I do? But the point is she hasn't moved out, has she.

OP posts:
CandyMaker · 09/12/2024 16:18

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:15

@CandyMaker
I asked her if she wanted to, I didn't suggest she should. She immediately said she didn't.

But why ask her? Sorry I don't understand this as most parents would do anything to stop their 18 year old DD moving out with a very new boyfriend.
You don't have to answer me, but ask yourself honestly. Were you trying to punish her? Or do you just see her as much older than she is and more like a flat mate?

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:17

It’s a complete and utter overreaction and emotional manipulation even if you haven’t said this to her,

Sorry, but how can something that is in my head and not said to her, be emotional manipulation?! If it exists only in my head then it's, well, my internal thoughts surely? It would need to be communicated to her to be manipulative, so this makes no sense to me.

OP posts:
Babyboomtastic · 09/12/2024 16:17

teenmumstress24 · 09/12/2024 16:07

Thank you! I absolutely have.

I'm not sure you have.

You've thanked those who have agreed with you, and those who have purely shown sympathy for your situation, but not those who have made constructive suggestions, and not those that have suggested that most of your daughters behaviour is normal and that you may be overreacting.

Lots of suggestions have been made of how your relationship with your daughter can be supported during this time, but it seems all you want to hear is how unfair she's being on you.

CandyMaker · 09/12/2024 16:17

@teenmumstress24 A number of people have said that what you need to do is get help for your own issues.

Ahsoka2001 · 09/12/2024 16:16

What are you gonna do when she moves out? She won't be able to do household chores or occupy her room X number of times then will she?