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To believe that all drugs should be legalised?

183 replies

TheWaryOchreRobin · 08/12/2024 18:13

If alcohol and cigarettes are legal, why not regulate and tax everything else instead of letting criminal gangs profit?

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BlackJacktheDog · 11/12/2024 07:20

Alcohol and cigarettes are only legal under certain circumstances - cigarettes less and less so as they are being effectively criminalised via the increasing age limit, assuming it passes.

Alcohol is a strange one because it comes with this huge cultural and culinary connection. But it is reducing in popularity via the reduction in younger people drinking, I think?

localnotail · 11/12/2024 07:13

n3f5 · 11/12/2024 06:34

The deaths come from the doctors taking away the legal prescription drugs. The addict then scores heroin on the street, accidentally over doses due to the unknown strength and dies. A lot of heroin is mixed with

This is not entirely true though, is it. The problem is with doctors prescribing highly addictive strong opioids indiscriminately and these drugs being available freely. Cancelling prescription once the person is addicted does not change anything, the damage is already done.

In the US, you get a nice little jar fully of oxytocin tablets when having a tooth extraction. Like, wtf.

n3f5 · 11/12/2024 06:34

localnotail · 09/12/2024 23:06

Look at number of deaths in America and here from opioids (painkillers) addiction - and these are prescription drugs, not meth or heroin.

The deaths come from the doctors taking away the legal prescription drugs. The addict then scores heroin on the street, accidentally over doses due to the unknown strength and dies. A lot of heroin is mixed with

localnotail · 09/12/2024 23:06

Look at number of deaths in America and here from opioids (painkillers) addiction - and these are prescription drugs, not meth or heroin.

lineylines · 09/12/2024 22:41

Barbadossunset · 09/12/2024 22:28

Addictive drugs could be supplied via chemists with a prescription.

Who would be entitled to a prescription? Also, addicts’ tolerance increases and so they would need higher and higher doses which doctors might be unwilling to give.

"Who would be entitled to a prescription"? Good question.

I would suggest those who are addicted, as part of a treatment programme.

At the moment, heroin addicts are prescribed methodone which is actually EASIER to overdose on that heroin,

Yes, addicts' tolerance can go up. But why do you think legalising drugs necessarily means a free for all?

At the moment the creation and distribution of incredibly powerful drugs are in the hands of criminal gangs. That makes no sense, it's making the situation worse.

I would suggest possession be made legal. Addicts to get heroin on prescription. But the penalties for dealing it are made much tougher.

Anything's got to be better than it is now. You can buy drugs as easily as getting a pint of milk if you know where to go. And the crime and suffering associated with addiciton to illegal drugs is huge. You cut lots of that out if you cut out the criminal gangs.

Barbadossunset · 09/12/2024 22:28

Addictive drugs could be supplied via chemists with a prescription.

Who would be entitled to a prescription? Also, addicts’ tolerance increases and so they would need higher and higher doses which doctors might be unwilling to give.

lineylines · 09/12/2024 22:25

Barbadossunset · 09/12/2024 18:20

But I would not be quite so confident that my 14 year old DS would not try it if all his friends were.

I was given morphine after an operation - I loved it and was quite disappointed when they stopped giving it to me.

Unfortunately I can imagine if I was in pain and it was readily available, I might easily pop down the chemist and buy some.

Yes, this is an obvious risk.

But legal doesn't mean freely available, necessarily. Highly addictive drugs like morphine and heroin could be taken out of the hands of the criminal gangs without meaning they're sold in every corner shop.

Addictive drugs could be supplied via chemists with a prescription.

You'd be better off rolling a spliff or eating some brownies made with the homegrown you would be legally able to grow at home, than trying to score morphine.

Unicorntearsofgin · 09/12/2024 18:43

It’s a fair point actually and now I am not sure how I feel.

Barbadossunset · 09/12/2024 18:20

But I would not be quite so confident that my 14 year old DS would not try it if all his friends were.

I was given morphine after an operation - I loved it and was quite disappointed when they stopped giving it to me.

Unfortunately I can imagine if I was in pain and it was readily available, I might easily pop down the chemist and buy some.

Unicorntearsofgin · 09/12/2024 17:30

LarkspurLane · 09/12/2024 10:46

Me neither.
But I would not be quite so confident that my 14 year old DS would not try it if all his friends were.

Maybe I am being naive here but I guess the idea of heroin is so abhorrent I can’t imagine many people actually want to seek it out. I see your point though and I definitely wouldn’t want to gamble with teen impulsiveness.

MurielSpriggs · 09/12/2024 17:26

LarkspurLane · 09/12/2024 17:18

Thanks and actually I just found this myself on google.

I guess I just don't believe it.
I am sure society would be in a worse state if everyone was shooting up heroin Friday and Saturday night instead of having a few pints.
I don't doubt that alcohol causes loads of harm to many, I just would have expected proportionally more heroin users to be badly affected than this seems to suggest.

I guess I just don't believe it.

I mean it was a team of highly-qualified, peer-reviewed scientists who spent a very long time working on the multi-criteria analysis and weighing the evidence (who were incidentally entirely ignored by policy makers, and Nutt was sacked by the government as chairman of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs because the result of the research was not what they wanted to hear!) I would say that part of the reason we're in a mess over drugs policy (and much else in public life) is because we don't listen to evidence and experts.

ARealitycheck · 09/12/2024 17:23

LarkspurLane · 09/12/2024 17:18

Thanks and actually I just found this myself on google.

I guess I just don't believe it.
I am sure society would be in a worse state if everyone was shooting up heroin Friday and Saturday night instead of having a few pints.
I don't doubt that alcohol causes loads of harm to many, I just would have expected proportionally more heroin users to be badly affected than this seems to suggest.

You would get the shock of your life if you knew how many people who's idea of a good weekend involves a few lines of coke. It is absolutely everywhere in every walk of life.

Mrsbloggz · 09/12/2024 17:18

@TheWaryOchreRobin
I see you've not come back to expand on your viewpoint?

LarkspurLane · 09/12/2024 17:18

MurielSpriggs · 09/12/2024 17:14

Yes, sorry, I've just edited the post to add a graph. You can find the original research online in the Lancet.

Again, an edit to add a non-paywall link for anyone interested:
www.imperial.ac.uk/news/94042/alcohol-most-harmful-drug-based-multicriteria/

Edited

Thanks and actually I just found this myself on google.

I guess I just don't believe it.
I am sure society would be in a worse state if everyone was shooting up heroin Friday and Saturday night instead of having a few pints.
I don't doubt that alcohol causes loads of harm to many, I just would have expected proportionally more heroin users to be badly affected than this seems to suggest.

EconomyClassRockstar · 09/12/2024 17:16

Weed is legal where I live. The downsides are that there is a really strong weed smell everywhere, including in cars that pass you. The upside is it's great to be able to walk into a dispensary and buy edibles.

MurielSpriggs · 09/12/2024 17:14

LarkspurLane · 09/12/2024 17:13

Could you link to some research on this please?
I can't believe that heroin would not be worse if taken on the same scale/numbers as those drinking alcohol, but perhaps I have a skewed view on the harms of Class A drugs.

Yes, sorry, I've just edited the post to add a graph. You can find the original research online in the Lancet.

Again, an edit to add a non-paywall link for anyone interested:
www.imperial.ac.uk/news/94042/alcohol-most-harmful-drug-based-multicriteria/

LarkspurLane · 09/12/2024 17:13

MurielSpriggs · 09/12/2024 17:06

I understand that you're writing from a healthcare perspective, but detailed research suggests that alcohol is considerably worse (indeed the worst) if you take into account the wider social harms it causes.
-+
Edited to add: this graph might be helpful (research was by David Nutt, Imperial College):

images.app.goo.gl/68GYYXZT7GXbCAxc9

Edited

Could you link to some research on this please?
I can't believe that heroin would not be worse if taken on the same scale/numbers as those drinking alcohol, but perhaps I have a skewed view on the harms of Class A drugs.

MurielSpriggs · 09/12/2024 17:06

catlovingdoctor · 09/12/2024 16:48

Healthcare professional here. Heroin is definitely multiple times worse...

I understand that you're writing from a healthcare perspective, but detailed research suggests that alcohol is considerably worse (indeed the worst) if you take into account the wider social harms it causes.
-+
Edited to add: this graph might be helpful (research was by David Nutt, Imperial College):

images.app.goo.gl/68GYYXZT7GXbCAxc9

catlovingdoctor · 09/12/2024 16:48

whereaw · 08/12/2024 18:34

Agree. Alcohol is arguably the most dangerous drug and that's legal.

Healthcare professional here. Heroin is definitely multiple times worse...

MurielSpriggs · 09/12/2024 16:35

Grannyinnwaiting · 09/12/2024 15:07

ah now, wise up!

Sound advice.

MurielSpriggs · 09/12/2024 16:34

snurtifier · 09/12/2024 10:59

But in this new golden age, presumably fentanyl would also be decriminalised? Or are you drawing the line somewhere?

It's not my line to draw! Although if we're decriminalising personal possession for reasons of harm reduction I'm guessing fentanyl would be treated the same as all others. From a harm-reduction point of view you would eliminate the risk of taking fentanyl (astronomical powerful opioid) by accident when you thought you were taking heroin (or indeed just about anything else), which would certainly save lives.

Grannyinnwaiting · 09/12/2024 15:07

ah now, wise up!

5128gap · 09/12/2024 13:47

No. The drugs that are legal, alcohol and OTC codeine cause enough problems and ruin many lives of people who wouldn't dream of doing anything illegal. I really don't think we need to add more lanes on the highway to addiction and health problems.

MrsSunshine2b · 09/12/2024 13:37

I think they should be available in a pharmacy and you should have some sort of photo ID card so there's a system to keep a track on who is buying what. I'd like to think that handing over photo ID and getting handed a pill in a corporate-looking box, in the cold light of day, by a middle-aged pharmacist might de-glamourise the process a bit.

MorrisZapp · 09/12/2024 12:37

You're more likely to get a blowjob from your gp than a prescription for temazepam. That's one of the reasons why the counterfeit market for it is so strong. God help me I bought some once and it was not the real thing, in fact it was a terrifying experience that saw me in A&E before I felt safe enough to go home.

This country will ever tax and sell drugs like benzos, hypnotics etc. I would happily buy them at any price but so would countless addicts.

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